how will APUs affect upgrading a build?

I haven't paid attention to advances in CPUs and motherboards for a few
years. I assembled my own pc and use it for basic apps, including one
game that requires shader 3 support.

I was trying to figure out how outdated my pc is compared to what's out
there now and what I might consider upgrading. I'm toying with
upgrading to a 64-bit OS and expanding my memory. My mobo can handle
up to 16 Gb of memory.

So I started out at Tom's Hardware. If I read it right, CPUs are being
replaced by APUs (combined CPU and GPU functions) and both Intel and
AMD will stop manufacturing CPUs and only be offering APUs by the end
of 2013.

Has anyone started discussing to what extent the new technology can be
used in existing gear or will it be a complete break with the past
requiring new mobos, processing unit, memory and graphic cards (Tom's
Hardware noted that at least some of the APUs would require a graphics
card for say gaming to be playable).

The best I figured it was that the benefit of the APU was cooler
temperatures, maybe less circuitry on the mobo.

John

Yes wrote:
I haven't paid attention to advances in CPUs and motherboards for a few
years. I assembled my own pc and use it for basic apps, including one
game that requires shader 3 support.

I was trying to figure out how outdated my pc is compared to what's out
there now and what I might consider upgrading. I'm toying with
upgrading to a 64-bit OS and expanding my memory. My mobo can handle
up to 16 Gb of memory.

So I started out at Tom's Hardware. If I read it right, CPUs are being
replaced by APUs (combined CPU and GPU functions) and both Intel and
AMD will stop manufacturing CPUs and only be offering APUs by the end
of 2013.

Has anyone started discussing to what extent the new technology can be
used in existing gear or will it be a complete break with the past
requiring new mobos, processing unit, memory and graphic cards (Tom's
Hardware noted that at least some of the APUs would require a graphics
card for say gaming to be playable).

The best I figured it was that the benefit of the APU was cooler
temperatures, maybe less circuitry on the mobo.

John

Both Intel and AMD are already shipping processor chips with
built-in graphics. The graphics are suitable, for lightweight
gaming.

If you're playing 3D games, there'll continue to be a market for
video cards. It's just the $50 video card market that will suffer
at the hands of the built-in GPU idea.

Another concept besides the APU, is the SOC. That's system on a chip.
The Raspberry PI computer ($25), uses a SOC. SOCs are used on the
ARM side of computing, for mobile devices. But if Intel wanted,
Intel could do a SOC.

The problem with the idea of putting more and more on one chip, is
whether the yield at the fab will be high enough. This is why
some of the APUs in the past, consisted of an MCM with two
silicon die inside. The CPU and GPU were separate silicon.
The same concept was used to build quad core CPUs at one
time - two dual core CPUs were placed inside an MCM, making a
quad core (with lots of cache snoop traffic on the bus). This gives
options that have a better yield at the fab facility.

MCM technology can hold a lot of silicon dies, but in the real world,
the large ones hold four silicon dies, and the small ones hold
two silicon dies. And that flexibility, allows them to test
each component part separately, before assembling them inside
the final package. On the outside, it looks like a single chip.

So while Intel could do a SOC, combining CPU, GPU, Northbridge,
Southbridge, it might have a large number of pins on it to
build a desktop computer, and that would be unwieldy. The
processor with LGA2011 socket, was already a stretch, in terms
of what was practical. Adding more pins just isn't a wise idea,
as the forces involved inside the socket have to be so large.

Soldering the SOC to the motherboard, solves that problem,
and your choice in the matter in the future, will be strictly
limited. No socket any more. Don't like the processor, sell
the whole motherboard+CPU to someone else on Ebay.

So eventually, the motherboard socket will disappear,
and the motherboard will come with the CPU soldered to it.
That might be the only big chip evident on it.

I expect one side effect, is we'll take a screwing on price.
The combined assembly, will allow a bit of gouging.

Now, if they shrink the motherboards, and decide to remove
the ability to plug in add-in cards, maybe a future computer
will have only one PCI Express x16 slot, and that's where
your "gamer video card" will go.

("See - the evil already lives, in the lab")
("No consumer choice evident")

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...dc3217iye.html

So those are the trends. What will actually happen, is
a function of what the majority of consumers care about.
The fact that mobile (ARM) devices have such a ready supply
of customers, tells you customers really don't care
about how their devices are constructed. Only you and I care.
And we don't matter enough, for anyone to cater to us.
We'll get, whatever they give us.

This may be your future gamer PC. Only room for one plug-in card.
The orange slot, is if you need a more powerful video card. Two
sticks of RAM at 8GB a piece, will allow the construction of
a 16GB computer.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-500-064-Z01?$S640W$

Paul

On Feb 2, 2:16 pm, "Yes" wrote:
I haven't paid attention to advances in CPUs and motherboards for a few
years. I assembled my own pc and use it for basic apps, including one
game that requires shader 3 support.

I was trying to figure out how outdated my pc is compared to what's out
there now and what I might consider upgrading. I'm toying with
upgrading to a 64-bit OS and expanding my memory. My mobo can handle
up to 16 Gb of memory.

So I started out at Tom's Hardware. If I read it right, CPUs are being
replaced by APUs (combined CPU and GPU functions) and both Intel and
AMD will stop manufacturing CPUs and only be offering APUs by the end
of 2013.

Has anyone started discussing to what extent the new technology can be
used in existing gear or will it be a complete break with the past
requiring new mobos, processing unit, memory and graphic cards (Tom's
Hardware noted that at least some of the APUs would require a graphics
card for say gaming to be playable).

The best I figured it was that the benefit of the APU was cooler
temperatures, maybe less circuitry on the mobo.

John

Who cares. Existing gear is software & a lot of storage support to
hold it for hook up to standard peripheral ports, among keyboard/
monitor-mouse. USB connections killed any old ISA/PCI market for
dedicated slotted cards. Gaming boxes should continue, even if the
field has dropped out somewhat fashion wise from highs 5 or so years
ago, when the BestBuy's PC sales motto was games 'make or break 'em'.
I still run single cores, rather haven't yet dropped in a CPU, Intel's
first dually, for upgrading this P4 (other computer is a 'nice' AMD
dually, nice being really fast from my perspective, anyway). Guess I
missed out on the drumroll for the whole beat Core 8 Generation X.
Like net-werking, never got a fever for redhot broadcast connections
across the living room to another computer I use for video or music.

What's left. I don't need Tom's Hardware to run software as long as
it's on 80xxx processor base. Same goes for graphics, perfunctory to
low- to mid-level quality encodes. Software has all but stopped
playing try to catchup with hardware. The angles are different with
low-resource offerings -- distributive software is here on the clouds,
along with fashion wris****ch computers sporting realtime FaceBook
personality updates, steaming video subscriptions, and Google's GPS,
so people know where they're related at. (A professor recently
submitted an article the media picked up: One third of students
entering high education facilities, due to virtual online estimations
of themselves, fall short of any tangible worth that equates to
reality.)

Digging into how software runs over microprocessors in an expansive
sense of platform build control is, and probably always was, more the
purvey of a technician, than actual effort and study given past less
need for the bull**** now for residuals from earlier epoch when there
wasn't much choice, other than to learn it right, in order to grasp an
inkling of all a computer is capable. People are simply more than
willing enough now to let the technicians handle what they'll get in a
stricter format and capacity to compute. Just a sure as are those
bottom-dollars, for business, as always, to promote most wondrously a
sheer limitlessness of what they have proffer, decreeing effortlessly
**** from shineola, from what virtuality will not be by explicit
catchphrases it was in yesteryears.

A contemporaneously human result to sit on one's ass, has been since
WWI or II, and to expect that, rightly demand of science and its
technocratic extension of capitalism. Whining about obfuscation is
officially over. Smart phones are here. You are to live long to
prosper, citizen -- & above all proudly to consume -- as the world so
will continue along on its spin into a bigger/better, new and improved
WWW3. God has designed it so.

Flasherly wrote:

On Feb 2, 2:16 pm, "Yes" wrote:

Who cares. --snipped--

I care.

Paul wrote:


Both Intel and AMD are already shipping processor chips with
built-in graphics. The graphics are suitable, for lightweight
gaming.

-- snipped --

So eventually, the motherboard socket will disappear,
and the motherboard will come with the CPU soldered to it.
That might be the only big chip evident on it.

I expect one side effect, is we'll take a screwing on price.
The combined assembly, will allow a bit of gouging.

-- snipped --

So those are the trends. What will actually happen, is
a function of what the majority of consumers care about.
The fact that mobile (ARM) devices have such a ready supply
of customers, tells you customers really don't care
about how their devices are constructed. Only you and I care.
And we don't matter enough, for anyone to cater to us.
We'll get, whatever they give us.

This may be your future gamer PC. Only room for one plug-in card.
The orange slot, is if you need a more powerful video card. Two
sticks of RAM at 8GB a piece, will allow the construction of
a 16GB computer.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-500-064-Z01?$S640W$

Paul

Sounds bleak. What about those of us who want to use their pc not so
much for gaming but to play around with software that needs both high
end processing power and lots of memory?

Yes wrote:
Paul wrote:

Both Intel and AMD are already shipping processor chips with
built-in graphics. The graphics are suitable, for lightweight
gaming.

-- snipped --

So eventually, the motherboard socket will disappear,
and the motherboard will come with the CPU soldered to it.
That might be the only big chip evident on it.

I expect one side effect, is we'll take a screwing on price.
The combined assembly, will allow a bit of gouging.

-- snipped --

So those are the trends. What will actually happen, is
a function of what the majority of consumers care about.
The fact that mobile (ARM) devices have such a ready supply
of customers, tells you customers really don't care
about how their devices are constructed. Only you and I care.
And we don't matter enough, for anyone to cater to us.
We'll get, whatever they give us.

This may be your future gamer PC. Only room for one plug-in card.
The orange slot, is if you need a more powerful video card. Two
sticks of RAM at 8GB a piece, will allow the construction of
a 16GB computer.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-500-064-Z01?$S640W$

Paul

Sounds bleak. What about those of us who want to use their pc not so
much for gaming but to play around with software that needs both high
end processing power and lots of memory?

What I'd describing is where the mainstream might head.

You can always use a server motherboard :-)

Paul

Paul wrote:

Yes wrote:
Paul wrote:

Both Intel and AMD are already shipping processor chips with
built-in graphics. The graphics are suitable, for lightweight
gaming.

-- snipped --

So eventually, the motherboard socket will disappear,
and the motherboard will come with the CPU soldered to it.
That might be the only big chip evident on it.

I expect one side effect, is we'll take a screwing on price.
The combined assembly, will allow a bit of gouging.

-- snipped --

So those are the trends. What will actually happen, is
a function of what the majority of consumers care about.
The fact that mobile (ARM) devices have such a ready supply
of customers, tells you customers really don't care
about how their devices are constructed. Only you and I care.
And we don't matter enough, for anyone to cater to us.
We'll get, whatever they give us.

This may be your future gamer PC. Only room for one plug-in card.
The orange slot, is if you need a more powerful video card. Two
sticks of RAM at 8GB a piece, will allow the construction of
a 16GB computer.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-500-064-Z01?$S640W$

Paul

Sounds bleak. What about those of us who want to use their pc not
so much for gaming but to play around with software that needs both
high end processing power and lots of memory?

What I'd describing is where the mainstream might head.

You can always use a server motherboard :-)

Paul

I've done that before :-) I'll just take it one day at a time then.

On 02/02/2013 2:16 PM, Yes wrote:
I haven't paid attention to advances in CPUs and motherboards for a few
years. I assembled my own pc and use it for basic apps, including one
game that requires shader 3 support.

I was trying to figure out how outdated my pc is compared to what's out
there now and what I might consider upgrading. I'm toying with
upgrading to a 64-bit OS and expanding my memory. My mobo can handle
up to 16 Gb of memory.

What you neglected to mention anywhere in your post is what your current
hardware is, is it Intel or AMD? If your current mobo handles upto 16GB
of RAM, then it's relatively recent, I'd say maybe no more than 3 years
old. So it should be able to handle a 64-bit OS with no change to the
hardware whatsoever.

So I started out at Tom's Hardware. If I read it right, CPUs are being
replaced by APUs (combined CPU and GPU functions) and both Intel and
AMD will stop manufacturing CPUs and only be offering APUs by the end
of 2013.

I'm not sure if they'll stop offering plain CPU's after 2013. It depends
on how much market demand there is for them, mostly. So far, I don't see
everybody adopting APU's overwhelmingly over CPU's. Sometimes a
standalone GPU is more powerful than an APU, and that's the overwhelming
consideration. In such a case nobody will even be using the onboard GPU
inside the APU, so why bother buying anything more than a CPU?

Has anyone started discussing to what extent the new technology can be
used in existing gear or will it be a complete break with the past
requiring new mobos, processing unit, memory and graphic cards (Tom's
Hardware noted that at least some of the APUs would require a graphics
card for say gaming to be playable).

You'll still see motherboards with PCI-e slots, and you'll still see
them with USB ports. Now as for whether we'll still see replaceable
processors in the mid to far term future is debatable. Most people
aren't building their own PC's anymore, most are buying them off the
shelf, and they don't worry about expandability, they just buy new
machines again later. The DIY market is shrinking to nothing these days.

The best I figured it was that the benefit of the APU was cooler
temperatures, maybe less circuitry on the mobo.

Well, yes, the APU gets rid of the separate GPU circuitry on the
motherboard, makes everything more compact. However, in some cases, the
GPU's are now being harnessed for their computation abilities too, with
the advent of DirectCompute from Microsoft, and OpenCL from the same
people who brought you OpenGL. So they can do faster calculations than
they could with only their own FPU's.

Yousuf Khan

In article , "Yes" wrote:
Flasherly wrote:

On Feb 2, 2:16 pm, "Yes" wrote:

Who cares. --snipped--

I care.
Can you even understand him?

On Feb 2, 8:54 pm, "Yes" wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
On Feb 2, 2:16 pm, "Yes" wrote:

Who cares. --snipped--

I care.

Doesn't really matter when you're asking for future concessions and
speculations. Join in the line behind all the rest.