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"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 30th 19, 08:06 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in our
cloud storage ecosystem spread across three data centers. Of that
number, there were 1,913 boot drives and 104,325 data drives. This
review looks at the Q1 2019 and lifetime hard drive failure rates of the
data drive models currently in operation in our data centers and
provides a handful of insights and observations along the way. In
addition, we have a few questions for you to ponder near the end of the
post. As always, we look forward to your comments."

Uh oh, those 12 TB Seagates are trending up. I suspect that they are
not helium drives.

I wish that they had more WDC drives but apparently they are driven by
economics and WDC drives are definitely more expensive than Seagate
drives. I do not think that HGST drives are old WDC drives but I could
be wrong.

Lynn
  #2  
Old April 30th 19, 11:18 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in our
cloud storage ecosystem spread across three data centers. Of that
number, there were 1,913 boot drives and 104,325 data drives. This
review looks at the Q1 2019 and lifetime hard drive failure rates of the
data drive models currently in operation in our data centers and
provides a handful of insights and observations along the way. In
addition, we have a few questions for you to ponder near the end of the
post. As always, we look forward to your comments."

Uh oh, those 12 TB Seagates are trending up. I suspect that they are
not helium drives.

I wish that they had more WDC drives but apparently they are driven by
economics and WDC drives are definitely more expensive than Seagate
drives. I do not think that HGST drives are old WDC drives but I could
be wrong.

Lynn



ST12000NM0007

Some have an unblemished cover.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Some have a circular addition, as if the cover had a hole
in it for some process step, and needed a cover afterwards.
Which seems absurd, considering how much trouble they go to,
to seal the top of the drive. It would not be like them
to make "decal decorations" for arbitrary reasons, so that
has some sort of function.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....ML._SX425_.jpg

Both units have the same part number. Some references are made
to "Malaysia", as if more than one plant makes them.

This is a picture of what is underneath the cover. There are two seating
planes. The inner plane is for the adhesive seal, the outer plane is
for the welded cover (so the user cannot put mechanical stress on
the sealing surface). And you can see the black thing in the lower right
corner of the picture, might line up with that circular thing above it.
I count eight platters. On the upper left corner, you can see the
filter pak for particulate. There are no gas-flow shaping barriers.

https://microless.com/cdn/products/f...30fdde8-hi.jpg

Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Paul
  #3  
Old May 2nd 19, 11:15 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

On 4/30/2019 5:18 PM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
Â*Â* https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in
our cloud storage ecosystem spread across three data centers. Of that
number, there were 1,913 boot drives and 104,325 data drives. This
review looks at the Q1 2019 and lifetime hard drive failure rates of
the data drive models currently in operation in our data centers and
provides a handful of insights and observations along the way. In
addition, we have a few questions for you to ponder near the end of
the post. As always, we look forward to your comments."

Uh oh, those 12 TB Seagates are trending up.Â* I suspect that they are
not helium drives.

I wish that they had more WDC drives but apparently they are driven by
economics and WDC drives are definitely more expensive than Seagate
drives.Â* I do not think that HGST drives are old WDC drives but I
could be wrong.

Lynn



ST12000NM0007

Some have an unblemished cover.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Some have a circular addition, as if the cover had a hole
in it for some process step, and needed a cover afterwards.
Which seems absurd, considering how much trouble they go to,
to seal the top of the drive. It would not be like them
to make "decal decorations" for arbitrary reasons, so that
has some sort of function.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....ML._SX425_.jpg

Both units have the same part number. Some references are made
to "Malaysia", as if more than one plant makes them.

This is a picture of what is underneath the cover. There are two seating
planes. The inner plane is for the adhesive seal, the outer plane is
for the welded cover (so the user cannot put mechanical stress on
the sealing surface). And you can see the black thing in the lower right
corner of the picture, might line up with that circular thing above it.
I count eight platters. On the upper left corner, you can see the
filter pak for particulate. There are no gas-flow shaping barriers.

https://microless.com/cdn/products/f...30fdde8-hi.jpg

Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Â*Â* Paul


Thanks !

Is that 8 platters ? wow !

Lynn

  #4  
Old May 2nd 19, 11:52 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/30/2019 5:18 PM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in
our cloud storage ecosystem spread across three data centers. Of that
number, there were 1,913 boot drives and 104,325 data drives. This
review looks at the Q1 2019 and lifetime hard drive failure rates of
the data drive models currently in operation in our data centers and
provides a handful of insights and observations along the way. In
addition, we have a few questions for you to ponder near the end of
the post. As always, we look forward to your comments."

Uh oh, those 12 TB Seagates are trending up. I suspect that they are
not helium drives.

I wish that they had more WDC drives but apparently they are driven
by economics and WDC drives are definitely more expensive than
Seagate drives. I do not think that HGST drives are old WDC drives
but I could be wrong.

Lynn



ST12000NM0007

Some have an unblemished cover.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Some have a circular addition, as if the cover had a hole
in it for some process step, and needed a cover afterwards.
Which seems absurd, considering how much trouble they go to,
to seal the top of the drive. It would not be like them
to make "decal decorations" for arbitrary reasons, so that
has some sort of function.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....ML._SX425_.jpg

Both units have the same part number. Some references are made
to "Malaysia", as if more than one plant makes them.

This is a picture of what is underneath the cover. There are two seating
planes. The inner plane is for the adhesive seal, the outer plane is
for the welded cover (so the user cannot put mechanical stress on
the sealing surface). And you can see the black thing in the lower right
corner of the picture, might line up with that circular thing above it.
I count eight platters. On the upper left corner, you can see the
filter pak for particulate. There are no gas-flow shaping barriers.

https://microless.com/cdn/products/f...30fdde8-hi.jpg


Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Paul


Thanks !

Is that 8 platters ? wow !

Lynn


8 by 1.5TB would give you a 12TB drive.
At a guess, 1.5TB tech would be PMR.

Whereas 6 by 2TB could build a 12TB drive
as well. I think 2TB is achieved by SMR
for writes. And then the write performance wouldn't
be as steady and dependable.

They don't always give platter info, so
finding a picture is an instant way to get
proof.

Paul

  #5  
Old May 4th 19, 01:41 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
RayLopez99
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 897
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in our

://microless.com/cdn/products/f18e4964c96110fb07f12102f30fdde8-hi.jpg

Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Paul


What is the advantage of helium, other than less air resistance and I guess less heat transfer?

RL
  #6  
Old May 4th 19, 05:46 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

RayLopez99 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in our

://microless.com/cdn/products/f18e4964c96110fb07f12102f30fdde8-hi.jpg

Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Paul


What is the advantage of helium, other than less air resistance and I guess less heat transfer?

RL


It has reduced air resistance.

And heat transfer is improved.

"The thermal conductivity of gases.

The value of thermal conductivity for most gases and vapors
range between 0.01 and 0.03 W/mK at room temperature. Notable
exceptions are Helium (0.15) and Hydrogen (0.18)"

I don't think there is any plan to switch to Hydrogen.

If you get a datasheet for drives, you can kinda tell which
drives have Helium, just from the operating power numbers.

Reads MTBF

12TB 7.0W 2,500,000
10TB 7.1W 2,500,000
8TB 7.1W 2,500,000
---- ---- ---------
6TB 9.3W 2,000,000
4TB 9.0W 2,000,000
2TB 7.4W 2,000,000
1TB 7.4W 2,000,000

I've not read any descriptions of what happens
when the drive runs out of Helium. It's guaranteed to
have Helium for five years. I presume the flying height
changes.

Paul
  #7  
Old May 6th 19, 09:19 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

On 5/3/2019 11:46 PM, Paul wrote:
RayLopez99 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 6:18:47 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"
Â*Â* https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backb...stats-q1-2019/

"As of March 31, 2019, Backblaze had 106,238 spinning hard drives in
our
://microless.com/cdn/products/f18e4964c96110fb07f12102f30fdde8-hi.jpg

Based on design, it's a helium drive. If it was air-filled,
there would be a breather hole. Those platters would also be
"thinner that regular platters"

The more platters = more trouble.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


What is the advantage of helium, other than less air resistance and I
guess less heat transfer?

RL


It has reduced air resistance.

And heat transfer is improved.

Â*Â* "The thermal conductivity of gases.

Â*Â*Â* The value of thermal conductivity for most gases and vapors
Â*Â*Â* range between 0.01 and 0.03 W/mK at room temperature. Notable
Â*Â*Â* exceptions are Helium (0.15) and Hydrogen (0.18)"

I don't think there is any plan to switch to Hydrogen.

If you get a datasheet for drives, you can kinda tell which
drives have Helium, just from the operating power numbers.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ReadsÂ* MTBF

Â* 12TBÂ* 7.0WÂ*Â* 2,500,000
Â* 10TBÂ* 7.1WÂ*Â* 2,500,000
Â*Â* 8TBÂ* 7.1WÂ*Â* 2,500,000
Â* ----Â* ----Â*Â* ---------
Â*Â* 6TBÂ* 9.3WÂ*Â* 2,000,000
Â*Â* 4TBÂ* 9.0WÂ*Â* 2,000,000
Â*Â* 2TBÂ* 7.4WÂ*Â* 2,000,000
Â*Â* 1TBÂ* 7.4WÂ*Â* 2,000,000

I've not read any descriptions of what happens
when the drive runs out of Helium. It's guaranteed to
have Helium for five years. I presume the flying height
changes.

Â*Â* Paul


Sure, we could use hydrogen for hard drive cooling. Older power plant
generators use pure hydrogen gas for cooling. With a very involved
purging and oil based sealing process. Of course, hydrogen filled hard
drives could bring back excitement to computing when they have a
containment breach.

Lynn

  #8  
Old May 7th 19, 08:51 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

Lynn McGuire wrote:

Sure, we could use hydrogen for hard drive cooling. Older power plant
generators use pure hydrogen gas for cooling. With a very involved
purging and oil based sealing process. Of course, hydrogen filled hard
drives could bring back excitement to computing when they have a
containment breach.

Lynn


I've been burned by hydrogen. I have "experience" :-(

Unfortunately, the Hydrogen reacts with some of the
metals, whereas the Helium is nicely inert.

Hydrogen is also exothermic upon expansion, so if a
hole develops in a high pressure cylinder, the
stream of gas should self ignite from the heat.
Many years ago, they experimented with zeolite filled
cylinders, to reduce the rate of gas escape from
high pressure hydrogen cylinders. You could shoot a cylinder
with a high power rifle, and the gas stream was
gentle enough (because of the zeolite rate limiting)
to not catch fire. Until someone smoking a cigarette
sets it off, of course. Then if you're in a contained
area, look out.

If you order a cylinder of hydrogen from Liquid Air,
of course that won't have any rate limiting. Just
whatever your gas regulator might apply. The zeolite
experiment was intended as a solution for carrying
the gas in a moving vehicle, as a fuel store.

Paul
  #9  
Old May 7th 19, 09:34 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

On 5/7/2019 2:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:

Sure, we could use hydrogen for hard drive cooling.Â* Older power plant
generators use pure hydrogen gas for cooling.Â* With a very involved
purging and oil based sealing process.Â* Of course, hydrogen filled
hard drives could bring back excitement to computing when they have a
containment breach.

Lynn


I've been burned by hydrogen. I have "experience" :-(

Unfortunately, the Hydrogen reacts with some of the
metals, whereas the Helium is nicely inert.

Hydrogen is also exothermic upon expansion, so if a
hole develops in a high pressure cylinder, the
stream of gas should self ignite from the heat.
Many years ago, they experimented with zeolite filled
cylinders, to reduce the rate of gas escape from
high pressure hydrogen cylinders. You could shoot a cylinder
with a high power rifle, and the gas stream was
gentle enough (because of the zeolite rate limiting)
to not catch fire. Until someone smoking a cigarette
sets it off, of course. Then if you're in a contained
area, look out.

If you order a cylinder of hydrogen from Liquid Air,
of course that won't have any rate limiting. Just
whatever your gas regulator might apply. The zeolite
experiment was intended as a solution for carrying
the gas in a moving vehicle, as a fuel store.

Â*Â* Paul


Hydrogen just wants to be free !

I used to buy 30 to 50 high pressure cylinders of hydrogen from Air
Liquide a month. You've never lived until your cylinder farm rots
through the piping and vents to atmosphere one day.

Lynn
  #10  
Old May 7th 19, 10:11 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default "Backblaze Hard Drive Stats Q1 2019"

On 05/07/2019 3:34 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/7/2019 2:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:

Sure, we could use hydrogen for hard drive cooling.Â* Older power
plant generators use pure hydrogen gas for cooling.Â* With a very
involved purging and oil based sealing process.Â* Of course, hydrogen
filled hard drives could bring back excitement to computing when they
have a containment breach.

Lynn


I've been burned by hydrogen. I have "experience" :-(

Unfortunately, the Hydrogen reacts with some of the
metals, whereas the Helium is nicely inert.

Hydrogen is also exothermic upon expansion, so if a
hole develops in a high pressure cylinder, the
stream of gas should self ignite from the heat.
Many years ago, they experimented with zeolite filled
cylinders, to reduce the rate of gas escape from
high pressure hydrogen cylinders. You could shoot a cylinder
with a high power rifle, and the gas stream was
gentle enough (because of the zeolite rate limiting)
to not catch fire. Until someone smoking a cigarette
sets it off, of course. Then if you're in a contained
area, look out.

If you order a cylinder of hydrogen from Liquid Air,
of course that won't have any rate limiting. Just
whatever your gas regulator might apply. The zeolite
experiment was intended as a solution for carrying
the gas in a moving vehicle, as a fuel store.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


Hydrogen just wants to be free !

I used to buy 30 to 50 high pressure cylinders of hydrogen from Air
Liquide a month.Â* You've never lived until your cylinder farm rots
through the piping and vents to atmosphere one day.

Lynn


On a small scale, back when I was an automotive mechanic in the dead of
winter I had put a fast charger on a cars dead battery outside near the
fence where the ac plugs where, after about an hour I went out to shut
down and remove the charger in the dark, Inadvertently I must have hit
the metal hold down and the plus+ terminal with the charger clip and
caused a spark.
Well all that freshly produced hydrogen in the empty space in the
battery blew and threw parts of the battery top and a good batch of
sulfuric acid in my face, I ran like hell back into the garage and
grabbed the water hose and doused my face and front with plenty of cold
water.
For the first time ever I was lucky I wore glasses and did not get any
in my Eyes.
Since then I have had a great respect for hydrogen gas.

Rene


 




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