foxconn 600A01-6LRS cooks video cards

Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.


It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.

It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul



Okay, well here's what I got from the owner.

He seems to remember that the local computer shop said they had changed
the card slot types. They also said that the motherboard had a dodgy
regulator, and that the card would last for a while, but would
eventually go. As would any video card put in the system.

Then I rang the computer shop. He said he first thought it was the PCU,
so he put another test PCU in, but with either one he still found random
hi and low power spikes on a regulator near the AGP slot. So he
replaced the AGP card with a PCI card. Hoping this would last a bit
longer. It lasted about eight months.

Just which bridge regulator is common to both north and south bridges is
beyond my level of motherboard understanding.

Suggestions anybody?

-Adrian
--
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Xam wrote:
Paul wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.

It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul


Okay, well here's what I got from the owner.

He seems to remember that the local computer shop said they had changed
the card slot types. They also said that the motherboard had a dodgy
regulator, and that the card would last for a while, but would
eventually go. As would any video card put in the system.

Then I rang the computer shop. He said he first thought it was the PCU,
so he put another test PCU in, but with either one he still found random
hi and low power spikes on a regulator near the AGP slot. So he
replaced the AGP card with a PCI card. Hoping this would last a bit
longer. It lasted about eight months.

Just which bridge regulator is common to both north and south bridges is
beyond my level of motherboard understanding.

Suggestions anybody?

-Adrian

VIA doesn't generally make their datasheets public. But if we use
the datasheets for my current Intel processor motherboard as an example,
this might be illustrative.

875P Northbridge (I'm glossing over this, and removing details here...)

AGP 1.5V (motherboard allows settings from 1.5 to 1.8V)
Core 1.5V (separate from AGP rail)
Vtt (voltage for termination resistors for AGTL+ on FSB ?)
Vddr 2.6V (voltage common with DDR DIMMs)
Vcc 3.3V (miscellaneous CMOS I/O for control etc)

ICH5R Southbridge

Core 1.5V
Vcc 3.3V (used for I/O)
VccRTC (CMOS battery etc., powers RTC and CMOS RAM)
V_CPU_IO (for signals to processor)
V5REF (5V tolerant input receivers)

The AGP rail used for AGP I/O, is a different voltage than the
3.3V used for VCC on the Southbridge.

There are power pins in the PCI and AGP slots, for powering the core
of those respective cards. They could be directly connected
to the power supply. So that is also a potential path, that is
common to the two kinds of slots. And that would not represent an
I/O voltage hopping around, but the cores of chips potentially
getting cooked. But that would require a power supply problem.

Maybe the PCI video dying is a coincidence ? Has the card
been tested in another computer with a PCI slot ? Have any other
PCI devices, like if there is a LAN chip on the motherboard,
died like the video card ?

The "Core" voltage is likely common to Northbridge and
Southbridge, but is not likely to be used for I/O signals.

Some recent chipsets and designs, have even more voltages,
choosing to have separate voltages for core on NB and SB.
It was hard enough to understand the old motherboards, let
alone the new ones.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Xam wrote:
Paul wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.

It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul


Okay, well here's what I got from the owner.

He seems to remember that the local computer shop said they had
changed the card slot types. They also said that the motherboard had
a dodgy regulator, and that the card would last for a while, but would
eventually go. As would any video card put in the system.

Then I rang the computer shop. He said he first thought it was the
PCU, so he put another test PCU in, but with either one he still found
random hi and low power spikes on a regulator near the AGP slot. So
he replaced the AGP card with a PCI card. Hoping this would last a
bit longer. It lasted about eight months.

Just which bridge regulator is common to both north and south bridges
is beyond my level of motherboard understanding.

Suggestions anybody?

-Adrian

VIA doesn't generally make their datasheets public. But if we use
the datasheets for my current Intel processor motherboard as an example,
this might be illustrative.

875P Northbridge (I'm glossing over this, and removing details here...)

AGP 1.5V (motherboard allows settings from 1.5 to 1.8V)
Core 1.5V (separate from AGP rail)
Vtt (voltage for termination resistors for AGTL+ on FSB ?)
Vddr 2.6V (voltage common with DDR DIMMs)
Vcc 3.3V (miscellaneous CMOS I/O for control etc)

ICH5R Southbridge

Core 1.5V
Vcc 3.3V (used for I/O)
VccRTC (CMOS battery etc., powers RTC and CMOS RAM)
V_CPU_IO (for signals to processor)
V5REF (5V tolerant input receivers)

The AGP rail used for AGP I/O, is a different voltage than the
3.3V used for VCC on the Southbridge.

There are power pins in the PCI and AGP slots, for powering the core
of those respective cards. They could be directly connected
to the power supply. So that is also a potential path, that is
common to the two kinds of slots. And that would not represent an
I/O voltage hopping around, but the cores of chips potentially
getting cooked. But that would require a power supply problem.

Maybe the PCI video dying is a coincidence ? Has the card
been tested in another computer with a PCI slot ? Have any other
PCI devices, like if there is a LAN chip on the motherboard,
died like the video card ?

The "Core" voltage is likely common to Northbridge and
Southbridge, but is not likely to be used for I/O signals.

Some recent chipsets and designs, have even more voltages,
choosing to have separate voltages for core on NB and SB.
It was hard enough to understand the old motherboards, let
alone the new ones.

Paul

Holy 5uck! That Readon PCI card works in my system. (-:

I thought it must be dead, because replacing it with another card that
worked, would prove both that the PCI slot it's self was fine and the
card was fried. But I am using it to make this post. Wonders will
never cease.

So maybe just reseating it would have done the trick.

The LAN chip on the mother board is working okay, as I used it to update
the OS, and download some AV and firewall software.

Is it possible that two different VGA cards use different PCI pins to
pull power from the motherboard?

-Adrian

--
Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach a person to use
the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.

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Xam wrote:
Paul wrote:
Xam wrote:
Paul wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.

It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul


Okay, well here's what I got from the owner.

He seems to remember that the local computer shop said they had
changed the card slot types. They also said that the motherboard had
a dodgy regulator, and that the card would last for a while, but
would eventually go. As would any video card put in the system.

Then I rang the computer shop. He said he first thought it was the
PCU, so he put another test PCU in, but with either one he still
found random hi and low power spikes on a regulator near the AGP
slot. So he replaced the AGP card with a PCI card. Hoping this
would last a bit longer. It lasted about eight months.

Just which bridge regulator is common to both north and south bridges
is beyond my level of motherboard understanding.

Suggestions anybody?

-Adrian

VIA doesn't generally make their datasheets public. But if we use
the datasheets for my current Intel processor motherboard as an example,
this might be illustrative.

875P Northbridge (I'm glossing over this, and removing details here...)

AGP 1.5V (motherboard allows settings from 1.5 to 1.8V)
Core 1.5V (separate from AGP rail)
Vtt (voltage for termination resistors for AGTL+ on FSB ?)
Vddr 2.6V (voltage common with DDR DIMMs)
Vcc 3.3V (miscellaneous CMOS I/O for control etc)

ICH5R Southbridge

Core 1.5V
Vcc 3.3V (used for I/O)
VccRTC (CMOS battery etc., powers RTC and CMOS RAM)
V_CPU_IO (for signals to processor)
V5REF (5V tolerant input receivers)

The AGP rail used for AGP I/O, is a different voltage than the
3.3V used for VCC on the Southbridge.

There are power pins in the PCI and AGP slots, for powering the core
of those respective cards. They could be directly connected
to the power supply. So that is also a potential path, that is
common to the two kinds of slots. And that would not represent an
I/O voltage hopping around, but the cores of chips potentially
getting cooked. But that would require a power supply problem.

Maybe the PCI video dying is a coincidence ? Has the card
been tested in another computer with a PCI slot ? Have any other
PCI devices, like if there is a LAN chip on the motherboard,
died like the video card ?

The "Core" voltage is likely common to Northbridge and
Southbridge, but is not likely to be used for I/O signals.

Some recent chipsets and designs, have even more voltages,
choosing to have separate voltages for core on NB and SB.
It was hard enough to understand the old motherboards, let
alone the new ones.

Paul

Holy 5uck! That Readon PCI card works in my system. (-:

I thought it must be dead, because replacing it with another card that
worked, would prove both that the PCI slot it's self was fine and the
card was fried. But I am using it to make this post. Wonders will
never cease.

So maybe just reseating it would have done the trick.

The LAN chip on the mother board is working okay, as I used it to update
the OS, and download some AV and firewall software.

Is it possible that two different VGA cards use different PCI pins to
pull power from the motherboard?

-Adrian


I wouldn't think so.

If you do a search for "PCI_22.pdf", you can find copies on the Internet.
If is a paid-for spec from pcisig.org, but some people are offering it
for download. PDF page 167 has the pinout for a PCI add-in card. The
universal slot definition, shows a universal keyed PCI card, accepting
whatever value of "+Vio" that is offered by the motherboard. The motherboard
designer makes a choice of 5V or 3.3V for +Vio. The motherboard PCI slots are
keyed, to mark the voltage choice used. Then, when a user plugs in a card, the
card only fits, if the keying matches. A universal PCI card can work with a
3.3V or a 5V motherboard.

The second link in the second post here, gives a location to get PCI_22.pdf .
The number of bytes in the file is smaller than my copy, but the doc
seems to be intact. 322 pages. PDF page 167 has the pinout. (I don't
provide direct links to downloads for this document, as I'd rather the
copies don't disappear.)

http://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40609

Paul

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:43:51 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.


It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.


There seems only to be a Via network chip that could run
from 3.3V... maybe other PCI cards installed, but none were
mentioned IIRC.

http://www.compass.ua/products/articles/img/54_3big.jpg

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:19:07 +1000, Xam wrote:

Paul wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Doesnt explain why it killed a PCI video card, if it did that.

It would help a lot, if we knew exactly what broke. Whether
PCI or AGP or whatever. PCI would be harder to explain, if
that is the card type, because typically there are other
PCI chips sitting on the bus, that would also get fried if
there was a problem common to all of them.

Paul



Okay, well here's what I got from the owner.

He seems to remember that the local computer shop said they had changed
the card slot types. They also said that the motherboard had a dodgy
regulator, and that the card would last for a while, but would
eventually go. As would any video card put in the system.

It seems a bit strange that the computer shop would replace
a video card instead of the fault causing the problems in
the first place.



Then I rang the computer shop. He said he first thought it was the PCU,
so he put another test PCU in, but with either one he still found random
hi and low power spikes on a regulator near the AGP slot.

More details would be useful. If the original PSU was
working as per it's design, but was generally inadequate,
and that was changed to another equally inadequate PSU, it
could reproduce the same problem. The system as configured,
being one that powers the CPU via it's onboard VRM power
circuit from the PSU's 5V rail, should not have had a PSU
with only 160W combined 3V+5V rating used. That's like
asking for a problem with high powered (semi-) modern CPUs,
too much of a toll on the PSU especially if system has very
large current swings due to an active ACPI power management.


So he
replaced the AGP card with a PCI card. Hoping this would last a bit
longer. It lasted about eight months.

After the first failure, and considering the case had no
secondary exhaust (if I recall correctly), the shop should
have then had doubts about the cooling subsystem. Both AMD
and Intel at the time of system creation did have design
guides detailing placement of a rear case exhaust fan.

For best life the case needs it's cooling improved. For
best life the system needs a higher 3V+5V capacity PSU. For
the moment, it may be that there are no capacitor failures
in the PSU, they usually vent by the time they are bad
enough to cause continual problems but it is possible a cap
can be bad merely causing high ripple and not fail as-in
venting, instead of just having terrible filtering
performance.

With several things potentially wrong with the system as
related to good long life, it would seem prudent to tackle
all these and it might just resolve the video card problems
too, or prevent a future problem.



Just which bridge regulator is common to both north and south bridges is
beyond my level of motherboard understanding.

I'm not so sure the regulator is the problem. They don't
tend to half-work, half not work... is probably working ok
unless there is no load on it, or there is a bad capacitor
somewhere causing the fluctuations if not high ripple from
PSU itself... that is, if it's not the case cooling but the
Virge video card should not have been very hot running.

Is it possible there was more than one fault? The Virge
card presumably had quite a few years of use on it already,
parts can die from old age particularly when they have
electrolytic capacitors near heat producing parts. The
other cards may have a different problem, especially more
modern passively cooled cards in a case with bad airflow.

I'd correct the cooling before wondering about the rest. No
card will be happy with bad cooling, even if you replaced
the board and PSU. If all else fails and there is no
reasonable way to improve the front intake or put a fan on
the back that has good flow rate, put a hole in the case
side panel and mount an intake fan there blowing mostly
under the video card. That will benefit more than just the
video card since it will put more airflow past the
northbridge, VRM subsection, CPU, and out the PSU.

I must have just been lucky to get that board to run at all. Because I
thought, well I may as well try the Readon in it one more time (since it
does just fine on my ASUS board), as it may have just been a seating
problem. But now I can't get it to do more than give a very short and
quiet sort of buzz with the LAN lights momentarily going out when the
power button is pressed, with either card in it in any PCI slot. Just
like it did when I first got it. So I might have to declare this one
officially dead.

At least I did manage to burn all the files he wanted to CD. The
hardest part of which was to find a patch for Outlook before I could
export his address book.

Oh well, thanks for all the help guys. I did learn a few thing about
mother boards along the way too. Although AGP/PCI/IDE are nearly now,
or very soon to be as obsolete as ISA is today. When was the last time
anybody here saw a going computer with even one ISA slot? (-:

Cheers.
-Adrian
--
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named after me.”

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Suggestions anybody?

Throw it away ffs.

--
Boo

Boo wrote:

Suggestions anybody?

Throw it away ffs.


lol.
Thanks for that.
I will.
-A
--
Why do Kamikaze pilots wear helmets? Smacks of indecision to me. Sean Meo.

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