Radeon X1950XT AGP

When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high power
consumption...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"First of One" wrote in message ...
When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high power
consumption...

I'd love to see benchmark comparisons between this card and
Gainward's 7800GS+ AGP. The GS+ has 24 pipes and 512M
vs. the X1950XT's 16 pipes/but more shaders and 256M.

'First of One' wrote:
When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high
power consumption...
_____

A Peltier array that added only 40 Watts "to the X1950XT's already high
power consumption" would be worse than insulator, and NOT a heat pump.
That's what happens when the heat flow is greater than the Peltier capacity.
About the only way such a small capacity Peltier array could be of any
benefit would be if were used for cooling just a portion of the card, say,
the memory alone. That could keep the memory cool at the expense of adding
to the overall fan cooling load. A completely useless crock. Why do they
make these things?

A Peltier with a Qmax rating of 40 Watts can pump 40 Watts of heat at a
temperature differential of 0 degrees (between the heatsink interface and
the interface with the object cooled); NO cooling. It could pump 20 Watts
of heat and maintain a temperature differential of perhaps 20 C. For any
heat flow of more than 40 Watts there would be no cooling, but heating
instead.

Phil Weldon




"First of One" wrote in message
...
When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high
power consumption...

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

Alas, it is not quite that simple. If the HSF is the same unit as on the
Sparkle 8800GTX, then it uses a hybrid design from MACS, with a set of
secondary heat pipes going from the base plate directly to the heat sink
fins. The brunt of the heat output is dissipated by conventional means.
http://anandtech.com/casecooling/sho...spx?i=2921&p=2 .

The design seems to work well enough on the Sparkle 8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=13

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
.net...
'First of One' wrote:
When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high
power consumption...
_____

A Peltier array that added only 40 Watts "to the X1950XT's already high
power consumption" would be worse than insulator, and NOT a heat pump.
That's what happens when the heat flow is greater than the Peltier
capacity. About the only way such a small capacity Peltier array could be
of any benefit would be if were used for cooling just a portion of the
card, say, the memory alone. That could keep the memory cool at the
expense of adding to the overall fan cooling load. A completely useless
crock. Why do they make these things?

A Peltier with a Qmax rating of 40 Watts can pump 40 Watts of heat at a
temperature differential of 0 degrees (between the heatsink interface and
the interface with the object cooled); NO cooling. It could pump 20 Watts
of heat and maintain a temperature differential of perhaps 20 C. For any
heat flow of more than 40 Watts there would be no cooling, but heating
instead.

Phil Weldon

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=137
3DMarks only. Interesting to see the card edge out even 7950GTs.

BTW, the Gainward 7800GS+ runs at 450 MHz by default, from what I remember.
24 pipes @ 450 MHz give exactly the same texture fill rate as 16 pipes @ 675
MHz.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."

wrote in message
t...
"First of One" wrote in message
...
When did this thing appear?
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049

AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.

The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3

Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high
power
consumption...

I'd love to see benchmark comparisons between this card and
Gainward's 7800GS+ AGP. The GS+ has 24 pipes and 512M
vs. the X1950XT's 16 pipes/but more shaders and 256M.

'First of One' wrote:
| Alas, it is not quite that simple. If the HSF is the same unit as on the
| Sparkle 8800GTX, then it uses a hybrid design from MACS, with a set of
| secondary heat pipes going from the base plate directly to the heat sink
| fins. The brunt of the heat output is dissipated by conventional means.
| http://anandtech.com/casecooling/sho...spx?i=2921&p=2 .
|
| The design seems to work well enough on the Sparkle 8800GTX:
| http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=13

_____

How would anandtech have anything useful to say about the subject -
(a.) they don't even measure display adapter consumption, just total system
power consumption
(b.) the CPU Stress temperature graph in
http://anandtech.com/casecooling/sho...spx?i=2921&p=2
is misleading because the power consumption levels for the CPU are not
evenly spaced; the first step is much greater than all the following steps
combined
(c.) a Peltier array consuming 50 Watts max can handle perhaps 50% of the
heat load of an 80 Watt dissipation while lowering 50% of the cold side
temperature by ~ 5 C, but then the heatsink fan must have enough capacity to
handle any extra 60% heat load, hardly a stunning efficient design
considering the same cooling performance could be obtained with LESS
heatsink/fan capacity if the Peltier array were NOT used.
(d.) for the display adapter cooling in
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=13
the problem is even worse; the Peltier array consuming 50 Watts max and
handle less than 20% of the heat load of a 145 Watt heat source while
lowering the cold side temperature by ~ 5 C, MAYBE worth a 1 C overall
source temperature reduction.


Try http://www.tellurex.com for information on how Peltier arrays work and
what they can actually accomplish.

Phil Weldon

"First of One" wrote in message
...
| Alas, it is not quite that simple. If the HSF is the same unit as on the
| Sparkle 8800GTX, then it uses a hybrid design from MACS, with a set of
| secondary heat pipes going from the base plate directly to the heat sink
| fins. The brunt of the heat output is dissipated by conventional means.
| http://anandtech.com/casecooling/sho...spx?i=2921&p=2 .
|
| The design seems to work well enough on the Sparkle 8800GTX:
| http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=13
|
| --
| "War is the continuation of politics by other means.
| It can therefore be said that politics is war without
| bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
|
| "Phil Weldon" wrote in message
| .net...
| 'First of One' wrote:
| When did this thing appear?
|
http://www.gecube.com/products-detai...rod_id= 65116
| http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814241049
|
| AGP, Peltier-equipped HSF, 675 MHz core clock. $270.
|
| The HSF unit looks suspiciously like the one on Sparkle's GF8800GTX:
| http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=3
|
| Do be aware the Peltier adds another 40W to the X1950XT's already high
| power consumption...
| _____
|
| A Peltier array that added only 40 Watts "to the X1950XT's already high
| power consumption" would be worse than insulator, and NOT a heat pump.
| That's what happens when the heat flow is greater than the Peltier
| capacity. About the only way such a small capacity Peltier array could
be
| of any benefit would be if were used for cooling just a portion of the
| card, say, the memory alone. That could keep the memory cool at the
| expense of adding to the overall fan cooling load. A completely useless
| crock. Why do they make these things?
|
| A Peltier with a Qmax rating of 40 Watts can pump 40 Watts of heat at a
| temperature differential of 0 degrees (between the heatsink interface
and
| the interface with the object cooled); NO cooling. It could pump 20
Watts
| of heat and maintain a temperature differential of perhaps 20 C. For
any
| heat flow of more than 40 Watts there would be no cooling, but heating
| instead.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
|

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
nk.net...
How would anandtech have anything useful to say about the subject -
(a.) they don't even measure display adapter consumption, just total
system power consumption

....which is fine if the only component being changed is the video card. If a
system equipped with a BFG 8800GTX consumes 314 W, and the same system with
the Sparkle card consumes 353 W, you'd expect that the additional 39 W is
consumed by the Peltier on the Sparkle.

(b.) the CPU Stress temperature graph in
http://anandtech.com/casecooling/sho...spx?i=2921&p=2
is misleading because the power consumption levels for the CPU are not
evenly spaced; the first step is much greater than all the following steps
combined

Well, the graph is a column graph, not an x-y scatter plot, so technically
it's okay. I gave that link just to show how the Peltier element is arranged
in the heat sink, not to vouch for the CPU cooler. In fact, if you look
closely at the CPU results, the conventional Tunic Tower consistently
delivered lower temps than the Peltier-equipped Monsoon II.

(c.) a Peltier array consuming 50 Watts max can handle perhaps 50% of
the heat load of an 80 Watt dissipation while lowering 50% of the cold
side temperature by ~ 5 C, but then the heatsink fan must have enough
capacity to handle any extra 60% heat load, hardly a stunning efficient
design considering the same cooling performance could be obtained with
LESS heatsink/fan capacity if the Peltier array were NOT used.

I'm not touting on the efficiency of the design. However, the end result
from the user's perspective (temps, noise) is better than competing cards
with less extravagant cooling. I'm not saying a better cooler doesn't exist
or can't be designed, but as an OEM offering it is the best one available.
Under load the Sparkle with the Peltier was 5 C colder than the eVGA card
with ACS3.

(d.) for the display adapter cooling in
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2945&p=13
the problem is even worse; the Peltier array consuming 50 Watts max and
handle less than 20% of the heat load of a 145 Watt heat source while
lowering the cold side temperature by ~ 5 C, MAYBE worth a 1 C overall
source temperature reduction.

One user in the HardOCP forum didn't plug in the Peltier (!) due to
confusion with the installation diagrams. You will find the results he
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=176 . The idle
temps didn't actually change much. Under load the temps were 10 C higher
with the Peltier inactive (and the card essentially relying on half the heat
pipes). As I said earlier, the brunt of the cooling is handled through
conventional means.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."