At what point is ILM needed?

In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.

wrote:
Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.

Looking at http://www.kazeon.com/solutions/migration_archival.html, Can
you tell me how the product actually moves the data from one tier to
the next tier? What happens when the application tries to access the
data from the original location?

Jon

In article . com,
says...


wrote:
Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.

Looking at http://www.kazeon.com/solutions/migration_archival.html, Can
you tell me how the product actually moves the data from one tier to
the next tier? What happens when the application tries to access the
data from the original location?



can't tell you about kazeon but the www.abrevity.com product has a
built in data mover

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, OverLand Storage

Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...


wrote:
Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.

Looking at http://www.kazeon.com/solutions/migration_archival.html, Can
you tell me how the product actually moves the data from one tier to
the next tier? What happens when the application tries to access the
data from the original location?



can't tell you about kazeon but the www.abrevity.com product has a
built in data mover

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, OverLand Storage

Does it make the move seemless to the clients or do the clients have to
have some software installed on them in order to track the moved files
down?

In article .com,
says...


Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...


wrote:
Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider
an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.


Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.

Looking at http://www.kazeon.com/solutions/migration_archival.html, Can
you tell me how the product actually moves the data from one tier to
the next tier? What happens when the application tries to access the
data from the original location?



can't tell you about kazeon but the www.abrevity.com product has a
built in data mover



Does it make the move seemless to the clients or do the clients have to
have some software installed on them in order to track the moved files
down?


seemless, leaves a "pointer"
email me your real email address & i'll get you set up for a
free demo download
_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, OverLand Storage

wrote:
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?

This isn't measured in GB or TB. It's measured by the dollars saved by
reducing (in theory) active storage and floor space versus the costs of
purchasing and managing the ILM software and hardware.

I've been involved in complicated cost/benefit analysis in the past
where ILM made absolutely no sense - it drove our costs up, not down.
We did this with a vendor that sent their product and marketing people
to our site to crunch the numbers.

There will be cases where ILM makes sense and identically sized
configurations where it doesn't. It depends on how you're using your
data, what you're paying for the storage, software, people, floor
space, etc. You need to factor in the time it takes to get data back,
the risk of losing your only copy of a file (or are you making 2 copies
to your archive?), the complexity of managing an ILM solution, and a
ton of other stuff. You also need to factor in the many hours you'll
be spending trying to see if this is the right way to change your
infrastructure and evaluating products.

.../Ed

Well, since the 960's will expand to 64TB you've got plenty of grow
room.

Just remember that the 64TB is the maximum raw usable. If you are
using WAFL file system on the drives as NAS, this actual number will be
much lower. This may also be lower depending on how many snapshots you
take and if you snapmirror the data off to a remote location. A good
rule of thumb on the NetApp's is to use a third of their raw number for
the maximum usable. Also, if you are not using the maximum size drive
available for the frame, you will never achieve this number. Using the
largest drive also means sacrificing speed for capacity.

someone should be consolidating all of this... I will raise this to
management, but before I do so, do folks here think this is a big
problem just in our company or are others out there like this... ?

How many others have a similar situation?


Lol. Believe me, you are not the only one. Many others out there.

Yes. I've managed an Exchange environment with Enterprise Vault. It's
not much fun for the users. It creates more work for the Exchange and
storage administrators as well. You will need lower speed, larger
capacity disks for longer retention of e-mails. If you are looking for
governmental compliance of the data, that requires more specific
storage hardware to achieve your goal.

Specifically with the vault, users will notice a difference. Unless
they've improved it since the 5.x version we were using, the user would
have a stub of a message. Once archived, they can click and open it,
the vault will retrieve the contents, and then display the message. At
some point, however, you may not want all the stubs in a users mailbox
because even those small pointers can add up to your storage groups.
After the stubs disappear from the mailbox, a user has to go into a
browser to see the message. The browser can typically be linked from
Outlook via a toolbar button.

Ultimately, there are many benefits to implementing the vault but not
without increased administration.

Hope this helps.

wrote:
Andy wrote:
In article . com,
says...

Hi,
I am trying to figure out at what point I should be looking into some
sort of ILM technology. In reading vendor case studies such as
(http://www.netapp.com/library/cs/mustang.pdf), I dont see why I cant
just keep adding more disks to my primary storage right now as demand
increases... when should I be looking into ILM (at what storage
capacity)? How many GigaBytes or TeraBytes before I should consider an
ILM strategy?


i think that the 1st step in going to ILM is getting involved with
one of these new class of products that do "data classification".
Companies like Kazeon & Abrevity (the one we use) will discover
your data and present it to you in an understandable manner. They
will also / usually have the ability to let you move the data
(that you wish to move) and leave markers / pointers to the new
location. These solutions are also being used for finding legally
required data (within the files) and compliance issues.

_____ . .
' \\ . . |
O// . . |
\_\ . . |
| | . . . |
/ | . www.EvenEnterprises.com . . . |
/ .| . . . |
/ . | 310-544-9439 / 310-544-9309 fax . . . o
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Authorized - DIRECT VAR/VAD/Distributor for new mid-high end storage
iSCSI/NAS/SAN/RAID from EMC, HP, Equallogic, Quantum, ADIC, Abrevity

Great... will look into those products.

Also, has anyone used Enterprise Vault? If I use a product like Vault
to move my data from primary to a less expensive storage, what happens
when someone tries to access the data on the primary storage? Will the
system automatically go find it from the the place that vault moved the
data to?

Jon.