Anyone using Dual Core Dual CPU boards?

Leythos wrote:
I would like to setup a small production server for our database and
files, have already been quoted a Dual Xeon 3.2Ghz machine, but would
like to consider the Dual Core Dual CPU machines - as the Dual Core
seems to be noticeably faster in single CPU testing in our shop (than a
Hyper-Threaded system).

Anyone got actual real world experience with Dual Core Dual CPU systems?

Not with Dual DC Xeons, but some guys I know (worked with a couple of jobs
back) put together a dual DC Opteron server (Dual 270s, IIRC.) It's very
fast - doesn't perform quite as well as the quad-Opteron boxes they have,
which makes sense given that it's got half the local memory bandwidth per
core - but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a 4P system.

I haven't talked to them recently enough to find out if they managed to get
some DC 800-series chips yet; I think the plan had been to put those in some
of their 4P boxes.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"What's the use of yearning for Elysian Fields when you know you can't get
'em, and would only let 'em out on building leases if you had 'em?" (WSG)

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:51:52 GMT Leythos wrote in
Message id: :

In article , says...
Leythos wrote:
I would like to setup a small production server for our database and
files, have already been quoted a Dual Xeon 3.2Ghz machine, but would
like to consider the Dual Core Dual CPU machines - as the Dual Core
seems to be noticeably faster in single CPU testing in our shop (than a
Hyper-Threaded system).

Anyone got actual real world experience with Dual Core Dual CPU systems?

Not with Dual DC Xeons, but some guys I know (worked with a couple of jobs
back) put together a dual DC Opteron server (Dual 270s, IIRC.) It's very
fast - doesn't perform quite as well as the quad-Opteron boxes they have,
which makes sense given that it's got half the local memory bandwidth per
core - but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a 4P system.

I haven't talked to them recently enough to find out if they managed to get
some DC 800-series chips yet; I think the plan had been to put those in some
of their 4P boxes.

Thanks, but I'm looking for Intel as this is for my Production server
and don't want to take what "I" consider as chances.

Uh oh... Now you've done it - the AMD droids will accuse you of being a
troll.

* Leythos:

I've used Intel CPU's since the early 80's if I remember correctly,
and I've tried every Intel clone CPU that's hit the market from every
vendor. In most cases the clone CPU's worked fine or even performed
some functions quicker. Where the problem has always been, for me,
was in the motherboards/chipsets used with those clone chips.

Right, the 3rd party chipsets often were crap (especially the ones from
VIA and SiS). However, the Nvidia nForce4 is very good, and the nForce4
Professional (which is for workstations and servers) is very good, too.
Nothing that can be compared with something from companies like VIA...

I've never had a failed Intel implementation, worked on every server,
lasted for many decades, so I'll stick with what I consider as rock
stable, even if it means I'm not on the bleeding edge of technology.

Well, we have Dual DC XEONs at work, and also have Dual DC Opterons. Of
course no homebrew machines but reliable hardware from HP. The Opterons
are solid like a rock as are the intels, but the intels are much slower
(the stupid shared FSB can be a _real_ bottleneck!), and they get really
really hot (even when the current DC Opterons also produce a nice bunch
of heat). It's really obvious that the Dual Core XEONs are really just
interim products with the main purpose to tell the world "we can do
that, too" and to prevent the XEON from falling too much behind the
cheaper consumer processor Pentium4 (which has DC fr some time now)...

Honestly, if its not your home computer but a production machine for a
company that has to rely on it then the vendor becomes much more
important than what's inside. If something goes wrong neither intel nor
AMD will help you, it's the vendor you got your hardware from. Service
and support are points you should care more than for the choice between
of intel or AMD. Technically, the Opteron platform with nForce4
Professional is at least as good as intels XEON and intels chipsets
(i.e. E7525) if not better. intel indeed generally is very reliable, and
so is AMD (and Nvidia). There are AMD systems which are unreliable and
there are intel systems which are unreliable, too. No matter what you
choose, you always end up with the quality level the vendor you're
buying from delivers...

Benjamin, with intel at home

* Leythos:

Thanks for all of the above. I was fully aware of everything you wrote
and understood it before I posteded. I don't disagree about the Vendor
part, but I don't put as much weight on it as you do. We've got hundreds
of server, some branded, some unbranded, and they all have the same
level of reliability, it's more about the parts than the vendor, if you
pick quality parts then the vendor doesn't factor into it.

It doesn't necessarily factor into reliability, but it definitely
tactors into serviceability...

I'm still trying to get info from real people using Dual Core Dual CPU
boards and their experience (Intel CPU's that is).

Maybe you should specify what exactly you want to know. As to
reliability, our DC XEONs are rock solid...

Benjamin

Leythos wrote:
In article , says...
Leythos wrote:
I would like to setup a small production server for our database and
files, have already been quoted a Dual Xeon 3.2Ghz machine, but would
like to consider the Dual Core Dual CPU machines - as the Dual Core
seems to be noticeably faster in single CPU testing in our shop (than a
Hyper-Threaded system).

Anyone got actual real world experience with Dual Core Dual CPU systems?

Not with Dual DC Xeons, but some guys I know (worked with a couple of jobs
back) put together a dual DC Opteron server (Dual 270s, IIRC.) It's very
fast - doesn't perform quite as well as the quad-Opteron boxes they have,
which makes sense given that it's got half the local memory bandwidth per
core - but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than a 4P system.

Thanks, but I'm looking for Intel as this is for my Production server
and don't want to take what "I" consider as chances.

My assumption is that the same would basically apply: 2x dual core xeons
would run fast, just not as fast as 4 separate Xeon MPs (although because of
the shared FSB on Xeons - unless they've finally done that in - the
difference should be less than AMD.)

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"What's the use of yearning for Elysian Fields when you know you can't get
'em, and would only let 'em out on building leases if you had 'em?" (WSG)

Benjamin Gawert wrote:
* Leythos:
I've used Intel CPU's since the early 80's if I remember correctly,
and I've tried every Intel clone CPU that's hit the market from every
vendor. In most cases the clone CPU's worked fine or even performed
some functions quicker. Where the problem has always been, for me,
was in the motherboards/chipsets used with those clone chips.

Right, the 3rd party chipsets often were crap (especially the ones from
VIA and SiS). However, the Nvidia nForce4 is very good, and the nForce4
Professional (which is for workstations and servers) is very good, too.
Nothing that can be compared with something from companies like VIA...

Some of the latest Via stuff is very good as well, and some of the older
Nvidia stuff was pretty weak; the present generation of both companies is
better, but I will take the KT800 over any of the nForce 3 chipsets.

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"What's the use of yearning for Elysian Fields when you know you can't get
'em, and would only let 'em out on building leases if you had 'em?" (WSG)

Leythos wrote:
In article , says...
* Leythos:

Thanks for all of the above. I was fully aware of everything you wrote
and understood it before I posteded. I don't disagree about the Vendor
part, but I don't put as much weight on it as you do. We've got hundreds
of server, some branded, some unbranded, and they all have the same
level of reliability, it's more about the parts than the vendor, if you
pick quality parts then the vendor doesn't factor into it.
It doesn't necessarily factor into reliability, but it definitely
tactors into serviceability...

I'm still trying to get info from real people using Dual Core Dual CPU
boards and their experience (Intel CPU's that is).
Maybe you should specify what exactly you want to know. As to
reliability, our DC XEONs are rock solid...

I thought I was specific, I want to know about real experiences from
actual users/owners with Dual Core Dual CPU boards (intel CPU) - I'm
looking for a Dual CPU Dual Core board (and notice I posted in the Intel
group) for a new server, but I want to know what issues/things people
like about the board they are using so that I can review them also.

So go to newegg.com and bring up CPUs, the 9[34], the 955, whatever M/B
you like (I like ASUS) and ignore the price info, read the user reviews.

What I gathered is that if you get the stock heatsink on right it works
even overclocked, and if you get it wrong the chip will run way hot. My
personal conclusion is that the heatsink attachment is hard to use,
those who lack the touch will have problems.

See my other post on hyperthreading, if you need a lot of CPU power you
will want to decide if HT is useful for you.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Bill Davidsen wrote:
What I gathered is that if you get the stock heatsink on right it works
even overclocked, and if you get it wrong the chip will run way hot. My
personal conclusion is that the heatsink attachment is hard to use,
those who lack the touch will have problems.

Dunno about running hot - I was a bit ham-handed in getting the heatsink on
my new 940-based system, and it's running cool enough. But yeah, the HS
mounting system on those chips (all 775 socket chips? This is the first
non-AMD system I've assembled in years.)

--
Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/

"What's the use of yearning for Elysian Fields when you know you can't get
'em, and would only let 'em out on building leases if you had 'em?" (WSG)

Nate Edel wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote:
What I gathered is that if you get the stock heatsink on right it works
even overclocked, and if you get it wrong the chip will run way hot. My
personal conclusion is that the heatsink attachment is hard to use,
those who lack the touch will have problems.

Dunno about running hot - I was a bit ham-handed in getting the heatsink on
my new 940-based system, and it's running cool enough. But yeah, the HS
mounting system on those chips (all 775 socket chips? This is the first
non-AMD system I've assembled in years.)

I suspect that even "ham handed" from an experienced person is adequate.
It just wants to hear about 30 seconds of sincere swearing. When
possible I put the CPU and heatink on before installing the board. With
a server size board that's not always possible.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Leythos wrote:
In article , says...
* Leythos:

Thanks for all of the above. I was fully aware of everything you wrote
and understood it before I posteded. I don't disagree about the Vendor
part, but I don't put as much weight on it as you do. We've got hundreds
of server, some branded, some unbranded, and they all have the same
level of reliability, it's more about the parts than the vendor, if you
pick quality parts then the vendor doesn't factor into it.
It doesn't necessarily factor into reliability, but it definitely
tactors into serviceability...

I'm still trying to get info from real people using Dual Core Dual CPU
boards and their experience (Intel CPU's that is).
Maybe you should specify what exactly you want to know. As to
reliability, our DC XEONs are rock solid...
I thought I was specific, I want to know about real experiences from
actual users/owners with Dual Core Dual CPU boards (intel CPU) - I'm
looking for a Dual CPU Dual Core board (and notice I posted in the Intel
group) for a new server, but I want to know what issues/things people
like about the board they are using so that I can review them also.

So go to newegg.com and bring up CPUs, the 9[34], the 955, whatever M/B
you like (I like ASUS) and ignore the price info, read the user reviews.

What I gathered is that if you get the stock heatsink on right it works
even overclocked, and if you get it wrong the chip will run way hot. My
personal conclusion is that the heatsink attachment is hard to use,
those who lack the touch will have problems.

See my other post on hyperthreading, if you need a lot of CPU power you
will want to decide if HT is useful for you.

HT is nice, but it's got a place and it's not beneficial in every case.
As an example, in one of our Dual Xeon SQL servers we see no performance
difference with HT on or off. Same for our Quad CPU servers and MS SQL.
In other systems, like you described, HT makes a difference, even in my
P4/3.2ghz/HT laptop I notice a difference, but not as much as I see on
the Dual Core systems.

There was a discussion either here or the linux kernel mailing list
about a year ago, most people found their CPU ran cooler with HT on. I
have not made the effort to measure this myself, I don't have a heat
problem.

--
bill davidsen
SBC/Prodigy Yorktown Heights NY data center
http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com