Athlon FX-51 at 2.8Ghz Reviewed, P4 Hammered

Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back
from going faster was the maximum multiplier
supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.

I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:

Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back
from going faster was the maximum multiplier
supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.

On 28 Sep 2003 01:21:38 GMT, (Supertimer) wrote:

I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:

Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back
from going faster was the maximum multiplier
supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.

All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.

mike wrote:
On 28 Sep 2003 01:21:38 GMT, (Supertimer) wrote:


I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:


Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back

from going faster was the maximum multiplier

supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.


All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.


Perhaps all AMD needs is a fully naked lap dancing pixie!
However seriously, AMD capturing the heart of Microsoft for the XBox II
and Opterons success into the realm of academic super computing,
is a great acheivement on there behalf.

Many have teetered on the brink of bankruptcy recently (surprisingly
there is a world recession on), the point should be if they can survive
now, what is going to happen to them when the economy gets moving again?
I would think there future looks very promising, from looking at what
they have acheived on the whole lately.

As for the Amiga if only Commodore went they way the PC did.
Was an old dream of mine but died but that's another story

"Minotaur" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
On 28 Sep 2003 01:21:38 GMT, (Supertimer) wrote:


I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:


Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back

from going faster was the maximum multiplier

supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.


All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.


Perhaps all AMD needs is a fully naked lap dancing pixie!
However seriously, AMD capturing the heart of Microsoft for the XBox II
and Opterons success into the realm of academic super computing,
is a great acheivement on there behalf.

Many have teetered on the brink of bankruptcy recently (surprisingly
there is a world recession on), the point should be if they can survive
now, what is going to happen to them when the economy gets moving again?
I would think there future looks very promising, from looking at what
they have acheived on the whole lately.

As for the Amiga if only Commodore went they way the PC did.
Was an old dream of mine but died but that's another story


With all the talk about AMD's profitability or lack thereof, I don't
understand why many believe AMD has to be the #1 best selling CPU to be
successful. Pepsi is the #2 selling cola in the world and they make
billions of $s. Lee jeans isn't the best selling jean and they too have
been around long before I was. Point being is that if AMD is losing $ it's
not because of the lack of total # of CPUs sold. The total amount of VIA C3
CPUs sold are way lower (and cheaper) than intel and AMD yet VIA continues
to spend $ in research and development, manufacturing, and marketing of them
and no one is reporting about VIA losing tons of $.

If AMD is really losing the millions of $ I keep reading about AMD should
have been out of business long ago. Maybe they have creative CPAs that know
how to show $ losses when a profit is made like Hollywood does with motion
pictures.

AMD needs to market themselves better like VHS vs. Beta. An example of a
superior product out marketed by an inferior product which became the
product of choice.

My thoughts on the subject.

Nystagmus

"Nystagmus" wrote in message
...

"Minotaur" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
On 28 Sep 2003 01:21:38 GMT, (Supertimer) wrote:


I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:


Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back

from going faster was the maximum multiplier

supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.


All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.


Perhaps all AMD needs is a fully naked lap dancing pixie!
However seriously, AMD capturing the heart of Microsoft for the XBox II
and Opterons success into the realm of academic super computing,
is a great acheivement on there behalf.

Many have teetered on the brink of bankruptcy recently (surprisingly
there is a world recession on), the point should be if they can survive
now, what is going to happen to them when the economy gets moving again?
I would think there future looks very promising, from looking at what
they have acheived on the whole lately.

As for the Amiga if only Commodore went they way the PC did.
Was an old dream of mine but died but that's another story


With all the talk about AMD's profitability or lack thereof, I don't
understand why many believe AMD has to be the #1 best selling CPU to be
successful. Pepsi is the #2 selling cola in the world and they make
billions of $s. Lee jeans isn't the best selling jean and they too have
been around long before I was. Point being is that if AMD is losing $
it's
not because of the lack of total # of CPUs sold. The total amount of VIA
C3
CPUs sold are way lower (and cheaper) than intel and AMD yet VIA continues
to spend $ in research and development, manufacturing, and marketing of
them
and no one is reporting about VIA losing tons of $.

If AMD is really losing the millions of $ I keep reading about AMD should
have been out of business long ago. Maybe they have creative CPAs that
know
how to show $ losses when a profit is made like Hollywood does with motion
pictures.

AMD needs to market themselves better like VHS vs. Beta. An example of a
superior product out marketed by an inferior product which became the
product of choice.

My thoughts on the subject.

Nystagmus


First of all, you can't compare CPUs to cola. Unless of course you
constantly need to redesign the product and it costs countless millions to
do it.

How AMD is surviving is beyond me. They sell CPUs for next to nothing in
hopes of somehow gaining market share over Intel.

As for marketing their product? You need to have money to do that....and
have a competitor who does not intimidate your hardware suppliers.

As for the Amiga... multitasking without hyperthreading.... those were the
days.

"The TweakOholic" wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
"Nystagmus" wrote in message
...

"Minotaur" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:
On 28 Sep 2003 01:21:38 GMT, (Supertimer) wrote:


I am sorry, the link below should be:

http://www.aceshardware.com/

There was an extra space in the web address.

(Supertimer) wrote:


Curious to see how the Hammer core scales?
Head over to http://www.aces hardware.com/ to
see the review and benchmark results for a
Prometia phase-change (refrigeration) cooled
Athlon FX-51 system overclocked to 2.8Ghz.
The only thing holding the processor back

from going faster was the maximum multiplier

supported by the motherboard used.

The Aces Hardware article shows that the
Hammer architecture, thanks to SOI and a
slightly longer 12-stage pipeline, can
scale to higher clock speeds than the K7.
More importantly, it shows that performance
scales better with clock speed than the P4
thanks to the on-die dual channel memory
controller.

So not only does the benchmarks indicate
the FX-51 beating the stock P4EE, but it
shows the Hammer has the potential of
accelerating away from the P4 as the clock
speed is dialed up.

It is clear that the days of the P4 are
numbered just like this was the case with
the PIII when the K7 showed up.


All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was
released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the
betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it
may
not matter.


Perhaps all AMD needs is a fully naked lap dancing pixie!
However seriously, AMD capturing the heart of Microsoft for the XBox
II
and Opterons success into the realm of academic super computing,
is a great acheivement on there behalf.

Many have teetered on the brink of bankruptcy recently (surprisingly
there is a world recession on), the point should be if they can
survive
now, what is going to happen to them when the economy gets moving
again?
I would think there future looks very promising, from looking at what
they have acheived on the whole lately.

As for the Amiga if only Commodore went they way the PC did.
Was an old dream of mine but died but that's another story


With all the talk about AMD's profitability or lack thereof, I don't
understand why many believe AMD has to be the #1 best selling CPU to be
successful. Pepsi is the #2 selling cola in the world and they make
billions of $s. Lee jeans isn't the best selling jean and they too have
been around long before I was. Point being is that if AMD is losing $
it's
not because of the lack of total # of CPUs sold. The total amount of
VIA
C3
CPUs sold are way lower (and cheaper) than intel and AMD yet VIA
continues
to spend $ in research and development, manufacturing, and marketing of
them
and no one is reporting about VIA losing tons of $.

If AMD is really losing the millions of $ I keep reading about AMD
should
have been out of business long ago. Maybe they have creative CPAs that
know
how to show $ losses when a profit is made like Hollywood does with
motion
pictures.

AMD needs to market themselves better like VHS vs. Beta. An example of
a
superior product out marketed by an inferior product which became the
product of choice.

My thoughts on the subject.

Nystagmus


First of all, you can't compare CPUs to cola. Unless of course you
constantly need to redesign the product and it costs countless millions to
do it.


Ok, than compare GM against BMW. BMW in no way is even close to selling as
many cars as GM, yet they are known for superior automobiles. And BMW makes
a profit. And BMW has a product that is constantly redesigned.


How AMD is surviving is beyond me. They sell CPUs for next to nothing in
hopes of somehow gaining market share over Intel.

Well, that approach hasn't worked for AMD if we are to believe that AMD is
constantly lossing $. What I think AMD needs to do is flood the advertising
market. This cost money for sure but AMD needs to increase their
advertising budget and pay for it with a modest increase in the cost of
their CPUs. Apple is a healthy company and they don't have more than what
7% market share of computer sales. Innovation is what keeps them on the
silicon map.

AMD needs to work closely with software engineers so that they will design
software that will be tuned for AMD's CPU. AMD could even share if not pay
all monies for the software engineer's R and D. Establish partnerships more
aggresively with products that would showcase AMD's CPU's strenghts. Share
the cost of cross-brand advertising with the likes of Microsoft, Adobe,
gaming companies, high end software titles, etc. Make the world populous
through awareness advertising familular with AMD so that they demand AMD CPU
s enough so that the stronghold intel has is broken. Show Dell and all
others that dealing only with intel will limit their profits.


As for marketing their product? You need to have money to do that....and
have a competitor who does not intimidate your hardware suppliers.


Well that is what capitalism is all about isn't it? I'd bet ya Microsoft,
Trump, etc use the same tatics as intel.

All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.


Intels (p5?) will be a 64bit processor using the Amd-64 instruction set..
To me, that says that AMD's move has been adopted by INTEL as the next step
to take. If INTEL wouldnt have adopted it then I think we might have seen
AMD possibly go under (or at least loose nearly all of their home users)..
but with INTEL picking up the 64 idea then that probably shows they made a
good move

AMD needs to work closely with software engineers so that they will design
software that will be tuned for AMD's CPU. AMD could even share if not
pay
all monies for the software engineer's R and D. Establish partnerships
more
aggresively with products that would showcase AMD's CPU's strenghts.
Share
the cost of cross-brand advertising with the likes of Microsoft, Adobe,
gaming companies, high end software titles, etc. Make the world populous
through awareness advertising familular with AMD so that they demand AMD
CPU
s enough so that the stronghold intel has is broken. Show Dell and all
others that dealing only with intel will limit their profits.

Microsoft x86-64 optimized for Amd-64.. I think they did what you suggested
..
I belive that Adobe does actually push AMD chips for being the best chips to
use with their "ADReader" product..

As for marketing their product? You need to have money to do
that....and
have a competitor who does not intimidate your hardware suppliers.

Well that is what capitalism is all about isn't it? I'd bet ya
Microsoft,
Trump, etc use the same tatics as intel.

Yea they do, that's my microsoft has been up for several antitrust cases
over the past few years
if the EU fines the the max penalty then I think we'll see MS rethink things


As for the VIA chips, Just look at the c3.. It's newest processor is 15cm x
15cm, (sad it cant be passivly cooled), has a low power consumption, and
rates up there with a duron 500.. INTEL recently had laptops removed from
COMPUTEX because they didnt like the fact that they had Antaur processors in
them, sitting next to laptops that had intel chips (nice)..
Did you also know that Intel has flooded the market with cheap outdated
chips to try and compete with VIA's low power processors.. Sure VIA doesnt
complain but they dont put in the amount of money that Intel/Amd puts in,
nor have they had to deal with the same type of competition (but big blue
seems to want to change it)

"rstlne" .@. wrote in message
news
All this is very nice. The real question though isn't whether or not
the P4s days are numbered, we knew that before the FX-51 was released.
Superior product is not enough to insure market success - the betamax,
DR-DOS 6.0, and the Amiga are all solid evidence of that. The real
question should be whether or not the FX-51 and it's stablemates can
insure AMDs solvency.

Since the release of the first Athlon AMD has had a superior product
in many ways yet they've teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. This
product needs to be not just a market success but a cash cow or it may
not matter.


Intels (p5?) will be a 64bit processor using the Amd-64 instruction set..
To me, that says that AMD's move has been adopted by INTEL as the next
step
to take. If INTEL wouldnt have adopted it then I think we might have seen
AMD possibly go under (or at least loose nearly all of their home users)..
but with INTEL picking up the 64 idea then that probably shows they made a
good move

Intel really only had two options: go with x86-64 or stay 32-bit. It would
have been commercial suicide to try to push for another 64-bit extension, as
it would take at least two years (judging by the time it took for x86-64) to
get software support for the extension, by which time x86-64 would be very
well entrenched. Even more so as (according to rumours) MS told Intel that
if Intel rolled their own 64-bit extension, MS would not develop Windows for
it.

Staying 32-bit only wasn't really too sensible either, as it gives AMD a
huge marketing advantage to say that their chip runs 32-bit code fast, and
64-bit even faster (a *lot* faster in some cases, judging by the
AcesHardware report). The only question is how well Intel can add it to the
P5: whether it's going to be 64-bit bolted on to a 32-bit core (ie: bolt
x86-64 onto the p4 core, which would have severely low performance) or a
64-bit core that supports 32 bit (like
whatever-the-heck-AMD-is-calling-their-CPU-this-week).

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open