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#1
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Greetings all,
I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? Thanks all, - Stan Shankman |
#2
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Previously Stan Shankman wrote:
Greetings all, I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. I went with USB for hot-swap, since it does not work for SATA and Linux at the moment. It is not only the question whether the controller supports it, the OS has also to with the specific controller. I think the OS can support it even if the controller does not in some cases. IMO too young technology to be usable that way, except for some RAID controllers that specifically support this. Arno |
#3
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Stan Shankman wrote:
Greetings all, I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? How safe are SATA drives? Just as 'safe' as PATA drives, what you are calling IDE. I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Yes, its a real problem. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? Yes. But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? |
#4
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Stan Shankmanwrote:
Greetings all, I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? Thanks all, - Stan Shankman As far as I'm aware, all SATA's are hot swapable. It's not a question of capability, it's a question of the actual plug itself. The ground is shorter, thereby connecting last. This eliminates any sparks. IDE isn't hot swapable because all the pins are the same length. It's really as simple as that. That said, I really don't recommend using 5 1/4 bay solutions. The problem is heat. I used this setup and fried a drive because the cheapo cooling fan in the hard drive tray died. Made sure you don't buy cheap quick trays! Make sure they have ball bearing fans and stay away from Maxtor hard drives. They're very warm running units. Cheers |
#5
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Stan Shankman wrote:
Greetings all, I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Yes, you will. You need to make sure the system is aware that your are going to remove the storage device so that it can flush any buffers. Once the system tells you it is safe to remove the device, then you may remove it. Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? You can do that, but then expect Windows to generate 'unsafe device removal' messages and delayed write faults. If you have no need for the data on the drive (ever again), then no problem. If the data has any value, don't do it. How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? Thanks all, - Stan Shankman There are two issues. 1) Hot Plugging: that ability to install and remove hardware with the system running. SATA connectors are designed to support that provided you use a slot mounted arrangement and are not manually plugging cables onto the drive. 2) System considerations: Your system needs to support hot swapping. It must be able to know when you plan to remove a device and quiesce any activity to it. All transactions in progress must be allowed to complete. Then there needs to me a means to signal to the user that the device may be removed. You need both. Just adding some sort of tray and slide only addresses one issue. You should also make sure the drivers on your system support the devices you plan to use. Craigm |
#6
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Previously dannysdailys wrote:
As far as I'm aware, all SATA's are hot swapable. It's not a question of capability, it's a question of the actual plug itself. The ground is shorter, thereby connecting last. This eliminates any sparks. IDE isn't hot swapable because all the pins are the same length. It's really as simple as that. Unfortunately it is not that simple. Electrically you are correct. But the controller needs to re-negotiate and give enough data back to the OS for the process to work. Is seems the Linux driver writers have found some SATA controllers that do not provide this information. See here under "hotplug": http://linux.yyz.us/sata/software-status.html That said, I really don't recommend using 5 1/4 bay solutions. The problem is heat. I used this setup and fried a drive because the cheapo cooling fan in the hard drive tray died. Made sure you don't buy cheap quick trays! Make sure they have ball bearing fans and stay away from Maxtor hard drives. They're very warm running units. I completely agree to this. Arno |
#7
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process?
Yes, you will. You need to make sure the system is aware that your are going to remove the storage device so that it can flush any buffers. Once the system tells you it is safe to remove the device, then you may remove it. That is very true. So far only RAID controllers allow for removal and insert of hard drives without telling OS to do something. This is a biggest misconception about hot plug. People think that they can unplug hard drives without telling OS their planned actions, once devices are "hot pluggable". Maybe they are "hot pluggable" but not "hot unpluggable", at least from the OS point. Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? You can do that, but then expect Windows to generate 'unsafe device removal' messages and delayed write faults. If you have no need for the data on the drive (ever again), then no problem. If the data has any value, don't do it. How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? Thanks all, - Stan Shankman There are two issues. 1) Hot Plugging: that ability to install and remove hardware with the system running. SATA connectors are designed to support that provided you use a slot mounted arrangement and are not manually plugging cables onto the drive. 2) System considerations: Your system needs to support hot swapping. It must be able to know when you plan to remove a device and quiesce any activity to it. All transactions in progress must be allowed to complete. Then there needs to me a means to signal to the user that the device may be removed. You need both. Just adding some sort of tray and slide only addresses one issue. You should also make sure the drivers on your system support the devices you plan to use. Craigm |
#8
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
"dannysdailys" wrote in message
Stan Shankmanwrote: Greetings all, I want to setup a couple of hot-swap bays on my computer. I want to use those removable hard drive assemblies that one installs in 5 ¼ inch drive bays. I will be running Windows XP Pro. What I want to do, is have one master IDE drive in the computer, for booting on, but I want to use the removable SATA drives for everything else. I want to be able to plug and unplug them willy-nilly while the system is still running. I think this is doable. I have come to learn that not all SATA controllers are equal, so I need to know which of the available motherboards will support SATA hot-swapping? (Athlon 32-bit - socket A) It may well be, that I will have to install a new PCI SATA controller. That is okay, but again, which controllers work? Who out there has been hot-swapping SATA drives? What can you tell me about it? Will I have to go through some kind of mount and dismount process? Or can I just unplug the drive anytime I wish? How safe are SATA drives? I have been reading about the 137GB Windows limit on drive size. And have read that some people have lost data by plugging a large capacity drive into a Windows NTFS system that does not have large drive support enabled. Does anyone know if this danger exists with SATA drives as well? But mostly, I would like to hear some reports from happy hot-swappers. I want to know that it is really the way to go. Anyone? Thanks all, - Stan Shankman As far as I'm aware, all SATA's are hot swapable. It's not a question of capability, it's a question of the actual plug itself. Which makes it hot plugable, not hot swapable The ground is shorter, thereby connecting last. This eliminates any sparks. ROTFLOL! IDE isn't hot swapable because all the pins are the same length. Same as with SCSI. It's really as simple as that. Clueless, as always. That said, I really don't recommend using 5 1/4 bay solutions. The problem is heat. I used this setup and fried a drive because the cheapo cooling fan in the hard drive tray died. Made sure you don't buy cheap quick trays! Make sure they have ball bearing fans and stay away from Maxtor hard drives. They're very warm running units. Cheers |
#9
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Questions about SATA hot-swapping . . .
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