Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:56:53 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

Does this card have a Master Boot Record and Partition Table, or is it
formatted as a Super Floppy? I don't use Win XP, but is it possible
that XP doesn't recognise the latter?

Hi Frank,
I want to answer the question but I really don't know the answer.

I didn't do anything to the card (except I did many times pull it out
without thinking about what was going on so I may have "corrupted" it as
people said).

I tried to get "Disk Administrator" as John suggested, but all I got was a
virus warning so I'm waiting to confirm the download site.

I did format the card in the camera and I did use it in multiple cameras,
and it works fine. I did put it in the card reader, which it worked in the
past (I only have two of them and both worked and still do with other
cards). I tried two computers.

It formats from Windows when it's in the camera but it won't format from
Windows when it's in the card reader. That's all I really know.

It works just fine in the cameras, which is the wierd thing.
I don't have a clue if it has a Master Boot Record.

Is there a way to tell while it's in the camera connected to Windows by the
USB cable supplied with the camera?

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:42:27 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:18:34 -0800, John Navas wrote:

Sounds like a serious problem with your computer.
You may want to try a different computer and card reader/writer.

I tried multiple computers and card readers. So, I think it's the card.
I didn't think about wiping out the "partition" ... I'll look up how to do
that.

Flash card diagnostics will typically do that.
(Get the one I recommended for your testing.)
Disk Management should as well.

As for choosing FAT32, there wasn't any other choice in the format even
though there was a pulldown for it so I left it at FAT32.

Is this the right "disk administrator"?
http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...nistrator.html

Actually Disk Management (name change in XP):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:46:25 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:56:53 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

Does this card have a Master Boot Record and Partition Table, or is it
formatted as a Super Floppy? I don't use Win XP, but is it possible
that XP doesn't recognise the latter?

Hi Frank,
I want to answer the question but I really don't know the answer.

I didn't do anything to the card (except I did many times pull it out
without thinking about what was going on so I may have "corrupted" it as
people said).

I tried to get "Disk Administrator" as John suggested, but all I got was a
virus warning so I'm waiting to confirm the download site.

I did format the card in the camera and I did use it in multiple cameras,
and it works fine. I did put it in the card reader, which it worked in the
past (I only have two of them and both worked and still do with other
cards). I tried two computers.

It formats from Windows when it's in the camera but it won't format from
Windows when it's in the card reader. That's all I really know.

It works just fine in the cameras, which is the wierd thing.
I don't have a clue if it has a Master Boot Record.

Is there a way to tell while it's in the camera connected to Windows by the
USB cable supplied with the camera?

Use Disk Management (name change in XP):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:31:11 -0800, John Navas wrote:

Actually Disk Management (name change in XP), and you already have it:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000

Hi John,

Oh. My mistake (again!). I didn't realize you were referring to something
that is actually native on the Windows XP pc.

I'm right now in the middle of running a "special" format of the SD HC card
using Panasonic SDFormatter, version 2.0.0.3 from here

SD Memory Card Formatting Software
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...formatter.html

This special Panasonic SD HC card formatter has been running for more than
an hour and a half just on the first of three steps so I'll let you all
know if this works to "save" a "corrupted" SD flash memory card.

I'll let you know how this goes and then, if it doesn't work, I'll try the
referenced WinXP "How to delete a partition or a logical drive" and start
over.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:46:25 -0800, Pat Cheney put
finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:56:53 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

Does this card have a Master Boot Record and Partition Table, or is it
formatted as a Super Floppy? I don't use Win XP, but is it possible
that XP doesn't recognise the latter?

Hi Frank,
I want to answer the question but I really don't know the answer.

I have a USB card reader but I don't use Win XP so I can't experiment
on your behalf. :-(

I'm wondering whether the very first sector of your card contains a
boot sector rather than an MBR and partition table. If XP expects to
find a partition table, then it will mistakenly interpret the data in
the boot sector as logical block addresses or CHS geometry info. It
won't know that the data are invalid because the last two bytes (55
AA) of the boot sector and MBR both represent a valid signature.

At least that's my theory. :-)

One way I would test this on my machine is to enable support for USB
flash drives in my BIOS. I would then insert the USB card reader and
MMC card into my PC, and reboot. DOS and Windows should then see a 4GB
floppy drive. IIRC, in my case it gets a drive letter of B:

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 08:35:03 -0800, John Navas wrote:

I think it would have made more sense to solve the problem,
or at least to verify with diagnostics the card was bad

Hi John,
OK. I agree. You took copius time and effort to help so, correspondingly, I
should, as the very least as a courtesy, and, rightfully so, as you said,
since it might happen again, and, since this is usenet, I owe a full and
complete answer to any future readers.

Here's what I did just now.

1. I visited the h2testw site - but it's in Deutsch:
http://www.heise.de/software/download/ddwl50539

2. I downloaded and extracted h2testw.zip version 1.4
Luckily, next to the "liesmich.txt" was an English "readme.txt".

3. I read the readme.txt which, interestingly, says not to use USB
extension cords (which may be relevant to a prior discussion on this
thread). It also says to try multiple USB ports (especially those in the
back of the PC).

4. I'll summarize the readme.txt below (just to prove IRTFM):
H2testw is an single executable that tests storage for errors.
It does so by writing data and reading back what it wrote.
It recommends a format and then a test of the targeted media.
You can even do an "endless verify" for really long-term testing.
Comments or suggestions go to Harald Bögeholz .

5. I ran the H2testw executable and selected the "English" mode.
Note: It has a URL in the GUI which points to "http://www.ctmagazin.de".

6. I pressed the "Select target" button and let it through the firewall.
Up popped "Browse for Folder" which I pointed to Removable Disk E:\

7. H2testw predictably said "Target E:\, Error accessing target".
This is because no program has been able to access the card while in the
card reader hooked to a USB port via a mini-USB cable.

8. As suggested in the readme, I tried multiple ports & mini-USB cables.

9. So, I put the SD HC card back in the camera (where it always worked)
Note: I always need to turn on the camera to get it to be recognized.

10. I formatted the card (for about the sixth time) in the camera.

11. I hit the H2test2 "Select target" button to select Removable disk E:\
I kept the default "Data volume" of "all available space" (3873 MByte)
and pressed the "Write + Verify" button (which wasn't available prior).

12. It showed "H2testw | Progress" and a "Writing | Verifying" pane.
The progress bar shows more than an hour remaining; I'll report back.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:27:44 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

3. I read the readme.txt which, interestingly, says not to use USB
extension cords (which may be relevant to a prior discussion on this
thread).

No. Your problem again is making assumptions about terminology. USB
EXTENSION cable is quite different from a standard USB cable -- it's
essentially a standard cable with a 1-port hub grafted on the end.
It's not relevant in this context.

It also says to try multiple USB ports (especially those in the
back of the PC).

That can help when they aren't all the same, a mix of low and high
speed, or a defective port.

5. I ran the H2testw executable and selected the "English" mode.
Note: It has a URL in the GUI which points to "http://www.ctmagazin.de".

6. I pressed the "Select target" button and let it through the firewall.
Up popped "Browse for Folder" which I pointed to Removable Disk E:\

7. H2testw predictably said "Target E:\, Error accessing target".
This is because no program has been able to access the card while in the
card reader hooked to a USB port via a mini-USB cable.

You don't know why. You would be better off if you stopped making
assumptions.

8. As suggested in the readme, I tried multiple ports & mini-USB cables.

9. So, I put the SD HC card back in the camera (where it always worked)
Note: I always need to turn on the camera to get it to be recognized.

Do NOT use the camera. That's just wasting time. You need to erase,
partition and format the card. Start over with Disk Administrator
FIRST.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:27:44 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

[SNIP]

Please try and format the drive with the Format utility from the SD-CARD
Organization: http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Read the instructions carefully.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:54:55 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:27:44 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

[SNIP]

Please try and format the drive with the Format utility from the SD-CARD
Organization: http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Read the instructions carefully.

Hi John,
This is wonderful.
It's the same Panasonic utility that I ran before to format the SD HC card!
So, the good news is I didn't waste that formatting step.

I got my Panasonic SDFormatter from he
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...formatter.html
Filename = sdfv2003.exe
Version = 2.0.0.3

The SD-Card Organization has the same Panasonic SDFormatter he
http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Filename = sdfv2000.exe
Version = 2.0.0.3

In fact when I ran the SD-Card Organization SDFormatter installer
(sdfv2000.exe), the first thing it did was remove my Panasonic SDFormatter
installation (sdfv2003.exe).

I had to actually run the sdf2000.exe installer twice to get it to actually
install itself. Funny thing is, despite the different names, both say they
are version 2.0.0.3 once you run them and the GUI is identical.

The readme is the same readme as I ran into with the Panasonic program
-------------------------------------------------------------------
SD Memory Card Formatting Software Ver.2.0
Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. 5/21/2007
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I'm going to conclude I independently came up with the same potential
solution you suggested, which, if I may so so myself, I consider an
indication that I'm learning something.

I'm formatting again, and, when I get a new card reader, I'll try that
again. At this point, we're doing it for the answer, not to save the card
because we've spent more time than the card is worth ... but the answer is
priceless, especially since it will add to the usenet record for others!

Have a great New Year!
Pat

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:07:34 -0800, Pat wrote in
:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:54:55 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:27:44 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

[SNIP]

Please try and format the drive with the Format utility from the SD-CARD
Organization: http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Read the instructions carefully.

Hi John,
This is wonderful.
It's the same Panasonic utility that I ran before to format the SD HC card!
So, the good news is I didn't waste that formatting step.

I got my Panasonic SDFormatter from he
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/c...formatter.html
Filename = sdfv2003.exe
Version = 2.0.0.3

The SD-Card Organization has the same Panasonic SDFormatter he
http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Filename = sdfv2000.exe
Version = 2.0.0.3


Good!


So, I'm going to conclude I independently came up with the same potential
solution you suggested, which, if I may so so myself, I consider an
indication that I'm learning something.


Congratulations!


I'm formatting again, and, when I get a new card reader, I'll try that
again. At this point, we're doing it for the answer, not to save the card
because we've spent more time than the card is worth ... but the answer is
priceless, especially since it will add to the usenet record for others!


Format in a card reader/writer on the computer, NOT in the camera.
Attaching the camera to the computer is NOT the same thing.


Have a great New Year!

You too!

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John