If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Matt wrote:
chrisv wrote: You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2. Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine. Here's another link: http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/ and another http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/0...booting91.html |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
chrisv wrote:
FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this problem. I mis-spoke there. As I recall, Grub gave the option, but Windows would not boot. |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote:
Arno Wagner wrote: In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote: "Dave C." wrote: After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora) You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2. Huh? I have been using stock 2.6.x up to 2.6.9-rc2 without any problem like this. Care to give a reference? Or is this just a problem of Fedora? All 2.6 kernels have the issue, is my understanding. I am completely unaware of this and since I have used a dual-boot machine since 1994, I should have noticed something, should I not? And if there is an issue I would like to know exactly what it is... Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a previously-installed Linux partition. Not if you create the installation partition with Linux. At least I have done this successfully several times. What do mean, exactly? Windows will replace the boot-loader every time, and not give an option to boot Linux, from what I've seen. Oh, that is what you mean. But that is not real damage, just a small issue to be corrected with a Linux recovery CD/floppy or a grub boot-floppy. Takes two minutes and is routine for me. Note that this does nothing to the Linux partition. It is purely an MBR issue. So, basically, you're screwed for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I regard as kludges). "Huh?" again: Lilo and Grub do the job without problem. And they are not "third-party". "Lilo and Grub" are NOT what I consider "kludgy third party boot-loaders". In theory, the preferred way to get the dual-boot going is to install Windows first, then Linux, using Grub or Lilo to allow dual-booting. Or use the other way round and the Grub-floppy/Grub-CD/Knoppix CD to make Linux bootable again. Quite simple. Of course you have to understand some bootloader basics for this. FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this problem. I still don't see any kernel issue here at all. 2.6 will not touch a partition unless told to. It may be that the FC2 installer is bad. I have observed no effects on Windows partitions with the Debian installer. And that Grub in FC2 has no option to boot Windows surely is FC2's fault and not that of Grub. You can still go to the Grub shell and boot Windows manually and as long as you can boot a linux from somewhere you can reinstall/maintain LILO. I don't quite see your problem. Of course if you do not have any possibility ti boot besides the HDD, you may be screwed. But then how did you perform the installation in the first place? Arno -- For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote:
chrisv wrote: FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this problem. I mis-spoke there. As I recall, Grub gave the option, but Windows would not boot. O.K., then this was likely because the preconfigured Windows boot optins were wrong. Solution: - boot into grub bit not farther - Go to grub shell. - Tell it which partition is Windows: root (hd0,1) if on hda1, adjust if somewere else. - Make the partition active (for some reason Windows still needs this): makeactive - Tell Grub to use the chainloader: chainloader +1 - Boot: boot This should bring Windows up o.k.. Also works with a Grub boot-floppy. You can add the correct settings from Linux in the /boot/grub/menu.lst file once you have figured them out. An other possibility is that FC2 did damage in the partitioning process. Still not a Linux or Kernel issue, but a problem of FC2. That Linux is a great OS does not mean there are no broken distros or installers. Arno -- For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote:
Matt wrote: chrisv wrote: "Dave C." wrote: After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora) You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2. Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine. It doesn't happen every time, but it's a fact it happens, when you first install Windows and then install Linux. It happened to me. From http://www.hut.fi/~tkarvine/linux-wi...zing-ntfs.html [...] O.K., from a document referenced the Primer: There is a bug in Fedora Core 2 that causes the hard disk geometry as reported in the partition table to be altered during installation. This change may cause Windows boot failure. Although this bug is severe, it is recoverable and no data should be lost. It is important not to panic if and when this happens so you do not cause further problems or cause actual loss of data in the process of recovering from the error. This is not a Linux or Kernel issue. This is a broken installer that does the partitioning wrong. I never experienced this problem. I now have a 2.6 kernel on all my systems. However I do all my partitioning manually with Linux fdisk. I have heard that some of the fdisk alternatives can cause this problem but was not interested enough to investigate, since fdisk works well. Arno -- For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote:
Matt wrote: chrisv wrote: You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2. Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine. Here's another link: http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/ This is the FC2 problem. and another http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/0...booting91.html From this: " ... The partitioning tool parted, which YaST uses during the installation, may write an incorrect partition table...." Yes, parted has problems with a 2.6 kernel and windows partitions. But they are parted's problems, not kernel problems. I also find parted a quite scary tool, since you do not get verification questions on dangerous operations. As I said, these are bad installers using partitioning tools that have issues with 2.6. I have had no problems at all partitioning for Windows with Linux fdisk. And fdisk does not do any changes to disk until you quit it, a feature I like very much. Of course fdisk is quite old and has some issues. For example it still sticks to the notion of cylinders. parted does away with them and just uses size. Maybe one additional comment for SuSE: I used SuSE until lasst year, when I finally got fed-up with their unability to perfrom reliable updates between different versions. I am now running Debian without these problems. Arno -- For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
J. Clarke wrote:
Matt wrote: I'd like to know what specific belief or assumption is making you come up with these odd approaches. It sound like you don't want to reboot. I don't find it an "odd approach" at all. If you come from the mainframe world the use of virtual machines is SOP--it's very, very old technology, commercially available since the late '60s or early '70s. If you've never used one you might want to try it. Personally I find the notion that you must reboot to run a different OS on a machine that was designed to support virtual operation is the "odd approach". The use of a virtual machine is _much_ more convenient that repeated rebooting. Yes, there's a performance penalty, but if you're doing something that critical it should have a dedicated machine anyway. Okay, so you are saying that XP runs a process that emulates an i386 processor and the other PC hardware? Then you just run the binaries from an ordinary *nix distro? Or do you run a distro made especially for the virtual machine? If it is an ordinary distro, I don't know how you would install the system. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Matt wrote:
J. Clarke wrote: Matt wrote: I'd like to know what specific belief or assumption is making you come up with these odd approaches. It sound like you don't want to reboot. I don't find it an "odd approach" at all. If you come from the mainframe world the use of virtual machines is SOP--it's very, very old technology, commercially available since the late '60s or early '70s. If you've never used one you might want to try it. Personally I find the notion that you must reboot to run a different OS on a machine that was designed to support virtual operation is the "odd approach". The use of a virtual machine is _much_ more convenient that repeated rebooting. Yes, there's a performance penalty, but if you're doing something that critical it should have a dedicated machine anyway. Okay, so you are saying that XP runs a process that emulates an i386 processor and the other PC hardware? It doesn't emulate the processor--it doesn't need to--virtual operation has been designed into every Intel or Intel-compatible processor from the 80386 on. It does emulate some of the peripherals, notably the video, the network card, and the sound board--in each case a commonplace and widely supported chip is emulated. And this is not specific to XP. Microsoft Virtual PC runs on Windows 2000 or XP--the last version that Connectix produced before Microsoft bought them out also ran on Windows 98 and NT. There's also a Mac version that runs a full software emulation of the x86. There was an OS/2 version that had just shipped when Microsoft bought out Connectix, but Microsoft seems to have killed it. The competing product, vmware, runs on Windows NT, 2K, and XP, and on Linux. It's for the most part a better product, however it costs twice as much. Both Microsoft and vmware have free demo versions available, but for Windows only. Both also have server versions of their products which I haven't played with. There was an attempt at GPL equivalent, plex86, but it was much more limited--it wouldn't run any guest OS but Linux, and the last activity on it seems to have been over a year ago. Then you just run the binaries from an ordinary *nix distro? Yes. Or BSD or Novell or Windows or Plan 9 or BeOS or whatever. Or do you run a distro made especially for the virtual machine? Nope. Except to the extent that if the default kernel doesn't have support for the particular peripheral chips being emulated compiled in you'd want to recompile with those drivers, same as you would for any machine. If it is an ordinary distro, I don't know how you would install the system. Same way you'd install it on any machine. Insert the CD and boot up (assuming the distribution CD is bootable of course). But what you're booting is the virtual machine, whose display appears in a window on your Windows or Linux desktop. -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message ... I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that. So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three partitions: one for the XP OS, one for Linux, and one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two partitions? How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this arrangement make sense? My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a reinstall is easier. And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ . And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too? Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program Files\Common Files , the usual default place? My best advice for this is No Partitions. Use mobile racks with separate drives. One has to reboot to change from one OS to another anyway. This promotes less foul-ups with partitioning, boot loaders etc etc. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
"Frank" wrote:
My best advice for this is No Partitions. Use mobile racks with separate drives. One has to reboot to change from one OS to another anyway. This promotes less foul-ups with partitioning, boot loaders etc etc. Mobile racks (a.k.a. "caddies" and "removable trays") are indeed very convenient. I installed a Kingwin unit of the type with the cooling fan built into the bottom of the removable tray (http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.a...teID=25&ID=136), and it works beautifully, keeping the hard drive (a Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9) quite cool. I use it for backing up the entire contents of each of my two internal hard drives. The only tradeoff is a slight whooshing noise from the air rushing into the front of the removable tray. With 3 hard drives and a few ATAPI devices, round cables are necessary to make everything fit, so I use the ones with the aluminum braid shielding. So far, no problems. *TimDaniels* |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
ABIT NF7-M ( NVIDIA nForce2 video) with Linux? | Phil S | Homebuilt PC's | 8 | September 16th 04 08:33 PM |
Linux AMD64 | Roger Treece | AMD x86-64 Processors | 0 | May 6th 04 04:27 PM |
Lindows? OS's in general... | Brandon | Homebuilt PC's | 6 | February 14th 04 08:23 PM |
Intel backs linux fund against SCO | stacey | General | 0 | January 13th 04 03:29 AM |