Partitioning for XP & Linux, How Much for What?

"Arno Wagner" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Matt" wrote:
"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)

You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.


Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.

Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
the first disk...


Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

*TimDaniels*

"Matt" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Matt" wrote:

"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)


You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.


Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.



Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?

XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.

Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier than
LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.


Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Matt" wrote:

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Matt" wrote:

"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)



You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.



Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.




Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?


XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.

Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?


I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier
than LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.



Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

*TimDaniels*

I don't know all that much about grub, but I have usually been able to
get it to do what I want. You might try
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/. Here is some info from my Fedora
installation:

Name : grub Relocations: (not relocatable)
Version : 0.94 Vendor: Red Hat, Inc.
Release : 5 Build Date: Thu 06 May 2004
11:37:56 PM CDT
Install Date: Sat 11 Sep 2004 11:53:36 PM CDT Build Host:
tweety.build.redhat.com
Group : System Environment/Base Source RPM: grub-0.94-5.src.rpm
Size : 815365 License: GPL
Signature : DSA/SHA1, Fri 07 May 2004 02:49:12 PM CDT, Key ID
b44269d04f2a6fd2
Packager : Red Hat, Inc. http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla
URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
Summary : GRUB - the Grand Unified Boot Loader.
Description :
GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) is a boot loader capable of booting
into most free operating systems - Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, GNU Mach,
and others as well as most commercial operating systems.

Timothy Daniels wrote:

Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

*TimDaniels*

No, Grub and the older LILO (Linux Loader) are boot managers for Linux
systems which can boot non-Linux systems too if you install it in the
MBR. Windows XP has its own boot manager which can boot Windows
operating systems, and there are third-party boot managers for Windows
that can boot Windows and non-Windows operating systems. BootIT NG is
one, Boot Magic is another.

Malke
--
MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Arno Wagner" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Matt" wrote:
"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)

You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.


Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.

Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
the first disk...


Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

For booting both can do without Linux. Configuration is a
different question.

LILO has to be configured with Linux.

For Grub I have to admit I am not sure. Interactive mode
from a floppy can be used with any configuration on the HDD
also one that does not include Linux. However you have to
specify everything manually, so this is more of an emergency
option.

For HDD installation of Grub and/or adjusted configuration, I think
you need a running GNU Mach, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD.

However, why not installing a small Linux, say 200MB partition
size or so, just with a text editor and lilo or Grub configuration?
You can use e.g. a minimal Debian system for this. If
you dont use X, sound, mouse, etc. configuration is essentially
a non-issue.

Alternatively you can also use a Linux CD, e.g. a Knoppix
variant to maintain the bootloader.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Matt" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Matt" wrote:

"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)


You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.


Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.



Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?

XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.

Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier than
LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.


Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

Grub can boot windows only by use of the Windows boot-sector. It
needs its configuration file in a partition with a filesystem
it can read. It does understand FAT 16/32, so you could put the
config file on such a partition. It does not understand NTFS.

I think the initial installation can be done from a Grub-floppy,
but I am not sure. I never was without a Linux, at least on CD when
doing this kind of work.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

Arno Wagner wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels
wrote:
"Arno Wagner" wrote:
Timothy Daniels wrote:
"Matt" wrote:
"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat
fedora)

You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6
kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.


Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.

Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
the first disk...


Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

For booting both can do without Linux. Configuration is a
different question.

LILO has to be configured with Linux.

For Grub I have to admit I am not sure. Interactive mode
from a floppy can be used with any configuration on the HDD
also one that does not include Linux. However you have to
specify everything manually, so this is more of an emergency
option.

For HDD installation of Grub and/or adjusted configuration, I think
you need a running GNU Mach, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD.

However, why not installing a small Linux, say 200MB partition
size or so, just with a text editor and lilo or Grub configuration?
You can use e.g. a minimal Debian system for this. If
you dont use X, sound, mouse, etc. configuration is essentially
a non-issue.

Alternatively you can also use a Linux CD, e.g. a Knoppix
variant to maintain the bootloader.

Arno

Or just boot Linux from floppy, but I would personally find that got
really old very quickly. If the OP just wants to try Linux to feel it
out, then Knoppix is a wonderful choice. Just make sure to have enough
RAM since it is of course running in RAM. The latest Knoppix is 3.6 and
can be gotten at http://www.knoppix.net.

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Matt" wrote:

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Matt" wrote:

"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)



You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.



Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
(2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.




Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?


XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.

Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?


I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier
than LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.



Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

Grub can run without Linux. Certainly you can make a stand-alone
generic grub boot disk that you use interactively. Also you can make a
grub floppy that will display a boot menu and boot any of the choices.
And you can put grub on the mbr so that it boots windows. I believe you
can specifiy a menu in a grub.conf file in your windows filesystem and
put grub on the mbr so that it reads that grub.conf.

Matt wrote:

chrisv wrote:
"Dave C." wrote:


After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)


You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
all bootable on the same machine.

It doesn't happen every time, but it's a fact it happens, when you
first install Windows and then install Linux. It happened to me.

From
http://www.hut.fi/~tkarvine/linux-wi...zing-ntfs.html

Fedora Core 2 and other distributions using Linux kernel version 2.6
alter the partition table so that Windows no longer recognizes those
partitions. This problem does not show with every installation of
Fedora Core 2, and it never occurs with Fedora Core 1. The problem is
annoying but fixable without data loss. This worked for me: boot to
Knoppix 3.3 (Linux 2.4), sfdisk -l. Check the correct geometry: CHS
Cylinders Heads Sectors. (There are also other sources to check the
correct geometry, such as printings on hard disks and sometimes bios.)
Rewrite the partition table to reflect the correct geometry, using
your own values for /dev/hda, C H and S.

sfdisk -d /dev/hda |sfdisk --no-reread -C 16037 -H 255 -S 63 /dev/hda

Arno Wagner wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv wrote:
"Dave C." wrote:

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)

You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Huh? I have been using stock 2.6.x up to 2.6.9-rc2 without any
problem like this. Care to give a reference? Or is this just
a problem of Fedora?

All 2.6 kernels have the issue, is my understanding.

Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
previously-installed Linux partition.

Not if you create the installation partition with Linux. At least
I have done this successfully several times.

What do mean, exactly? Windows will replace the boot-loader every
time, and not give an option to boot Linux, from what I've seen.

So, basically, you're screwed
for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
regard as kludges).

"Huh?" again: Lilo and Grub do the job without problem. And they
are not "third-party".

"Lilo and Grub" are NOT what I consider "kludgy third party
boot-loaders". In theory, the preferred way to get the dual-boot
going is to install Windows first, then Linux, using Grub or Lilo to
allow dual-booting.

FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It
was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this
problem.