HP sued for deceiving ink printer users (San Jose Mercury 19.Feb.05)

A class action law suit was filed in Santa Clara County superior
court. It alleges that HP's 'smart printer' technology deceives
customers to buy new ink cartridges before the ink has run out.
The software renders cartridge unusable through the use of built-in
expiration date.

So far the allegation, neither party was willing to comment on
this litigation. The class action is on behalf of users who bought
HP inkjet after February 2001.


However, in this article San Jose Mercury quotes an ink printer
test published by PC World in March 2004 edition. PCWorld found
out that many printers stopped to print before the ink runs out.
For example, Epson Stylus C84 stopped with 20% of the ink left,
and Canon i850 stopped with 10% of the ink left.

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...

Thomas

ThomasH wrote:
A class action law suit was filed in Santa Clara County superior
court. It alleges that HP's 'smart printer' technology deceives
customers to buy new ink cartridges before the ink has run out.
The software renders cartridge unusable through the use of built-in
expiration date.

So far the allegation, neither party was willing to comment on
this litigation. The class action is on behalf of users who bought
HP inkjet after February 2001.


However, in this article San Jose Mercury quotes an ink printer
test published by PC World in March 2004 edition. PCWorld found
out that many printers stopped to print before the ink runs out.
For example, Epson Stylus C84 stopped with 20% of the ink left,
and Canon i850 stopped with 10% of the ink left.

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...

Thomas

I would think the issue is how did the represent what they were selling.

For example if they indicated that it would use all the ink in the
cartridge, then they have a problem

If they indicated that each ink cart would last X number of sheets or
square inches or would provide X ml of ink and it shut of after providing
that amount while still having some inside, then the customer's complaint is
not valid.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

I believe most of us assume that virtually all the ink in the cartridge
is there to be used. This really bothers me because I only use my HP
printer for final prints, thereby raising the question in my mind if I
am being ripped off. I have looked at my documentation and can find no
evidence of what to expect. Nor does my printer, purchased two years
ago, give me any heads up on remaining ink.

This mess is one reason I like Canon printers with individual
transparent easily refillable cartridges. What you see is what you
get.

There's no secret that inflated ink prices are what drives HP's market
share. Nor is there any secret that were this to change HP would see
its profits and prospects head in the direction not only of its low
margin pc business (and deteriorating server one), but Dell. And guess
what. This will happen.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:18:00 -0800, ThomasH wrote:


A class action law suit was filed in Santa Clara County superior
court. It alleges that HP's 'smart printer' technology deceives
customers to buy new ink cartridges before the ink has run out.
The software renders cartridge unusable through the use of built-in
expiration date.

So far the allegation, neither party was willing to comment on
this litigation. The class action is on behalf of users who bought
HP inkjet after February 2001.


However, in this article San Jose Mercury quotes an ink printer
test published by PC World in March 2004 edition. PCWorld found
out that many printers stopped to print before the ink runs out.
For example, Epson Stylus C84 stopped with 20% of the ink left,
and Canon i850 stopped with 10% of the ink left.

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...


I can tell you for a fact that HP is not
alone in using such technology.


rafe b.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com

Joseph Meehan commented courteously ...

I would think the issue is how did the represent what
they were selling.

For example if they indicated that it would use all the
ink in the cartridge, then they have a problem

Didn't read the article or any info on the plaintiff's
alleged complaints, but I don't know of a printer
manufacturer who promises to drain every last drop out of
a cartride.

Most start warning you as the cartridge empties,
supposedly to "help" you by preventing you from making a
bad color print. I expect that manufacturers "push the
envelope" on this, since they do make money from new
cartridges, maybe more than on printes, as Gilette found
selling razor blades and giving the razors away for free.

If they indicated that each ink cart would last X number
of sheets or square inches or would provide X ml of ink
and it shut of after providing that amount while still
having some inside, then the customer's complaint is not
valid.

Again, I've not seen a manufacturer dogmatically state a
maximum number of sheets/square inches. Rather, what I
normally see is a quoted *expected* number of sheets for
text and a smaller number for graphics (where they talk
about percent coverage).

With thousands of printers on the market, I can hardly
call myself an "expert witness", but whatever HP is or is
not doing, it isn't even good business practice to shut
off the printer (perhaps in the middle of the night when a
user can't go to the store), but I suppose it's possible.

What damages is the class action suit asking for, other
than to recover actual out-of-pocket expense for unused
ink, which would be small potatoes?

--
ATM, aka Jerry

I have a lexmark z605, which cartridges also cost an arm and a leg,and I
bought refills.It costs only 15 euro and has 2 20 ml syringes, also 4
refills.It has even gloves!It's made in Korea,BTW.

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitri?s
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
? "ThomasH" ?????? ??? ??????
...

A class action law suit was filed in Santa Clara County superior
court. It alleges that HP's 'smart printer' technology deceives
customers to buy new ink cartridges before the ink has run out.
The software renders cartridge unusable through the use of built-in
expiration date.

So far the allegation, neither party was willing to comment on
this litigation. The class action is on behalf of users who bought
HP inkjet after February 2001.


However, in this article San Jose Mercury quotes an ink printer
test published by PC World in March 2004 edition. PCWorld found
out that many printers stopped to print before the ink runs out.
For example, Epson Stylus C84 stopped with 20% of the ink left,
and Canon i850 stopped with 10% of the ink left.

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...

Thomas

Ron wrote:
I believe most of us assume that virtually all the ink in the
cartridge is there to be used.

However what is your expectation of the number of prints each cartridge
will produce? I believe, that while you may assume it will use all the ink,
what you really are looking at is the number of prints per cartridge.

For all I know it is not practical from an engineering point of view to
totally empty the cartridge. Maybe the delivery will become inconsistent or
maybe they can not measure accurately, so they provide more ink that the
cartridge is designed to deliver to assure a consistent result.

There is nothing the consumer hates more than inconsistent results. If
you get 100 prints on one cartridge and then only get 95 on the next
printing the exact same prints, you are going to be mad. I have often
visited manufacturing facilities. The quality control lines of the better
products often reject products that we would normally consider inferior like
not enough beef in the vegetable soup, but they also reject the cans with
too much beef. Beer lines reject bottles that are under-filled but they
also reject over-filled bottles.

This really bothers me because I only
use my HP printer for final prints, thereby raising the question in
my mind if I am being ripped off. I have looked at my documentation
and can find no evidence of what to expect. Nor does my printer,
purchased two years ago, give me any heads up on remaining ink.

This mess is one reason I like Canon printers with individual
transparent easily refillable cartridges. What you see is what you
get.

There's no secret that inflated ink prices are what drives HP's market
share. Nor is there any secret that were this to change HP would see
its profits and prospects head in the direction not only of its low
margin pc business (and deteriorating server one), but Dell. And
guess what. This will happen.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:

I would think the issue is how did the represent what they were selling.

For example if they indicated that it would use all the ink in the
cartridge, then they have a problem


The basis of the complaint seems to be that they did not disclose the
fact that the cartridges would cease functioning after a specific date,
regardless of how much ink was left in them.

Bob

ThomasH wrote:
A class action law suit was filed in Santa Clara County superior
court. It alleges that HP's 'smart printer' technology deceives
customers to buy new ink cartridges before the ink has run out.
The software renders cartridge unusable through the use of built-in
expiration date.

So far the allegation, neither party was willing to comment on
this litigation. The class action is on behalf of users who bought
HP inkjet after February 2001.


However, in this article San Jose Mercury quotes an ink printer
test published by PC World in March 2004 edition. PCWorld found
out that many printers stopped to print before the ink runs out.
For example, Epson Stylus C84 stopped with 20% of the ink left,
and Canon i850 stopped with 10% of the ink left.

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...

Thomas
I have had 5 different HP inkjet printers, and NONE of them ever stopped
printing when the ink ran out. The ones I currently have in use warn
you that you may be running out of ink, but they do NOT stop printing,
even when the ink runs OUT. I suspect this is another of those totally
specious lawsuits based on nothing but desire to get into the pockets of
major companies who would rather pay than be tied up in court.


--
Ron Hunter

"ThomasH" wrote in message
...

If all this is truth, they just found the best possible source
of income...

Thomas

If you are talking about trial lawyers, maybe. The lawyers will get paid
millions of dollars. The consumers they are supposedly protecting will get a
coupon for ten bucks off on an HP printer.