D 805 Overclocking to 4 Ghz?

On Wed, 17 May 2006 22:52:27 -0500, "Chalky" wrote:

Please review the following before responding:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?
The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I not
be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all the
time.

I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english explanation.
Thanks a bunch!

Chalky, J.D.


I thought it's pretty cool that the chip is available, but then again
it just shows how desperate Intel is these days. Or maybe it suggests
how much both AMD and Intel are yanking our chains with all these
crippled cpu's they market.

I think if you're into the mechanics of overclocking, it would be a
fun exercise providing you got a chip that performed as well as Tom's
did. Tom's kind of an Intel flunky. I'd wait for a LOT of user
feedback on that.

Personally, I kind of laughed that you had to jump through all those
hoops and use all that watercooling and high power to get a chip that
barely outperforms a chip running a gigahertz slower (and cooler etc).

But that's the whole problem with Intel these days.

I did have the AGP/PCI bus locked at 66.66/33.33

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
k.net...
'tod' wrote:
|I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
| Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
| Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then
tried
| 3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
| After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
| I think I should have up the voltage.
|_____

Make sure you have the PCI bus locked to 33 MHz. IDE hard drives can
corrupt data at anything much over 37 MHz, causing exactly the same
symptom
and require exactly the same repair as you report.
"tod" wrote in message
k.net...
|I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
| Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
| Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then
tried
| 3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
| After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
| I think I should have up the voltage.
|
| "Chalky" wrote in message
| ...
| Please review the following before responding:
| http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/
|
| I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my
first
| self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
| downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would
be?
| The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware
805
| setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I
not
| be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware,
it
| seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does
that
| have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
| expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all
the
| time.
|
| I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english
explanation.
| Thanks a bunch!
|
| Chalky, J.D.
|
|
|
|
|

'tod' wrote:
|I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
| Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
| Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then tried
| 3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
| After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
| I think I should have up the voltage.


Re-read the following link.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...es/page21.html

Wow, these quote are getting pretty long. Phil, I can't thank you
enough for the help you have givin me through the past few days! I
checked the PS supply that i just bought and it is the ATX12V Ver.
2.01 so there's no problem there. I know the other PS is fried cause
i also stuck it into a older comp that used the 20 pin and it didn't
do anything. So, the only thing left could be the mobo.
Now you said that there could be nothing wrong at all, and I would
HOPE SOO. The only thing is, what else could be causing this? I have
unhooked everything except ram, cpu, and gfx card. and tried booting,
with no success. And if all the components work on another mobo, the
only thing left is the mobo. I have read a lot lately, and still
nothing new has come up on what could be the problem.
And, seeing as there have been other incidents where the mobo has been
fried from a crappy PS, I think I've found the culprit. BUT, just to
make sure, I'm going to call up a comp store tomorrow and see if they
can test my mobo. (my friend can't test it)
I was wondering though phil, when i bought the ram it said its timings
were 5-5-5-10 and i went to change the timing settings myself in
the bios and there were 5 points like 5-5-5-10-4 and I don't know what
to set the last one at? My ram is OCZ Dual channel 512's DDR2-800, and
one final question. Since I am overclocking the system, should i
change the timing settings on the ram, and should i also lock the mzh
to 33.3 like you were saying earlier?
Phil Weldonwrote:
'GLoBaLReBeL' wrote, in part:
| So, just got back from Fry's, and had a friend test all the
components
| of the computer. He tested the video card(working), the
ram(working),
| the CPU (Working), but i never got to test the mobo because i
| thought, well, if the all the components that attach to the mobo
are
| working, then there's nothing else left then the Power Supply,
and
| the Mobo. And, the Power Supply is a 600W coolmaster, so I don't
| think that the power supply is my problem! I guess I have fried
the
| mobo in some way??!?!?!?! The green light still lights up, so i
can't
| figure it out!
_____

Good move! Getting your CPU checked was a good move! Also the
video card
and RAM checked.
Things are looking up. With a bit of luck you may find, as you
troubleshoot, that NO components need be replaced!

Many of the long time participants in this newsgroup started out
with the
Celeron 300a (or even earlier chips). With the Celeron 300a it was

difficult, if not impossible to make a serious mistake in
overclocking.

Things change.

With your 805 D you are dealing with lower voltage but MUCH higher
power
consumption (probably 6 or 7 times the power consumed by a Celeron
300a
overclocked by 50%). Operating systems have become much more
complex and
demanding, Display adapters can cost as much or more than the CPU,
and
consume as much power as the CPU.

* Be methodical as you get your system up and running.
* Make only one change at a time, and write down the result.
* Any changes that takes the system outside its designed
specifications
should be done in VERY small steps.

You probably got into trouble by not following these three rules of
thumb.
If you had followed these rules:
* You MIGHT not have had the failure.
* You definitely would not have worried about your CPU as long
since
when you finally tested it worked.
* Perhaps you would not have purchased a new power supply.

So take a deep breath and relax. Make the necessary checks before
purchasing anything.

Do NOT assume that your original power supply was deficient.
Do NOT assume that the problem is with your motherboard, and do NOT
assume
it is with either or both power supplies.
DO be selective about advice you receive in newsgroups. Though
alt.comp.hardware.overclocking has dropped drastically in the rate
of new
posting, it still offers a kind of peer review. If incorrect or
dangerous
information is posted, it is generally called down by knowledgeable

participants. (That will happen if I've been incorrect in details in
this
post.) This is less true in some newsgroups
(alt.conp.periphs.videocards.nVidia for example).

Other possibilities - the first power supply is toasted (perhaps in

internal, not accessible to user, fuse is blown) and when you
installed the
second power supply you made the new connections incorrectly, or you

inadvertently disturbed a previously correct connection. Or you
disturbed
the connections of other components. If your new power supply has a
rear
panel AC voltage selection switch, make sure it is set to ~ 120 VAC
and NOT
to ~ 220 VAC (some power supplies can do this automatically, and
will not
have this switch.)

Do NOT assume that no power is supplied to your computer system
(specifically the motherboard) if the front panel light is off; + 5
VDC is
ALWAYS supplied to the motherboard and some plug-in cards or
features built
into the motherboard (RTC, LAN, Modem {as if}... any device that can
start
the system from an external signal, including the keyboard, mouse,
and some
USB devices. Unless the AC power is interrupted (by unplugging the
AC power
cord or by using the ON/OFF switch on the rear panel of the Power
Supply) +
5 VDC 'Standby' power is ALWAYS provided.

You can get an ATX power supply testing device from CompUSA as well,
I
suppose, from Fry's. This are pretty simple testers (about $8 to
$15 US),
but they allow a basic test of an ATX power supply by just plugging
the main
plug (20 or 24 pin) from the power supply into the tester. The
tester will
jumper two contacts of the plug to bring the power supply out of
standby,
and four or five LEDs to indicate, more or less, the presence of
good
voltages. What it will not do is test the power supply under normal
loads,
that requires large resistors that produce exactly as much heat as
the
electrical power drawn. That is too much for a hand held device.
But a
pass indication from one of these testers is a good indication that
the
power supply is save to try in a system. ATX power supplies have a
lot of
built-in protection against overload and over voltage. For example,
if you
should drop a metallic screwdriver onto the motherboard, USUALLY the
result
is only that the power supply shuts down, and AC power must be
removed and
reapplied to restart the system; the motherboard, power supply, and

everything else completely OK. Ask me how I know B^)

A new CMOS battery will have NO effect on the problem you have seen.
Even
with NO CMOS battery you will still get some activity when you start
a
system that is otherwise ok. The CMOS battery powers only two
things (as
far as I am aware): the Real Time Clock and the settings that are
saved for
the BIOS.
You don't clear the RTC (Real Time Clock); you clear the settings in
the
CMOS memory (low power consumption memory.) The Real Time Clock can
be used
to start the computer system at a set time, or after an elapsed
time. Since
the power supply always provides + 5 VDC 'Standy' power, the
motherboard is
able to turn the power supply full on and the RTC can initiate
System Boot.
The Windows operating system can get the time and date from the RTC
when it
is first booted, and can then correct that time when connection to
the
Internet is established. Without a CMOS battery, or with a bad CMOS

battery, Windows will have an invalid time when it is booted.

With ATX (or ATX12, which you have) power supplies, the 'Power ON'
button on
the front of the system case is NOT connected to the power supply.
It is
connected to the power supply; it is connected to the motherboard.
The
Motherboard then switches the Power Supply from standby (which
provides only
+ 5 VDC with maximum current of one or two amperes) to full on.
Motherboard
circuitry then checks the + 3.3 VDC, +5 VDC, +12 VDC, - 5 VDC, and -
12 VDC;
if all are at the correct voltage, only THEN does the Motherboard
begin the
boot to BIOS control process. If the voltages are NOT correct, the

motherboard switches the power supply back to standby.

This is the standard which both your power supplies should meet

http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5CATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

..

This is an Intel document on tested power supplies:

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/tech_reference/35815.htm

..

The green light ( I guess you mean the power on light at the front
of the
system case) indicates that the power supply has been switched on
and is
providing the correct voltages. ATX power supplies (almost all
desktop PC
power supplies) produce + 5 VDC 'Standby' power as long as AC power
is
connected, regardless of whether the system is switched on by the
front
panel switch.

If you get through this second long post, please post additional
question.
I, or someone else can likely post some good links with information
useful
for overclocking.

I just ran across this web site, 'TechRepublic':
http://techrepublic.com.com/2001-1-0.html .
The home page appeals like a Buick, but the information I found
there on
Windows XP restore point files and how to find/manipulate them
appeals more
like an Alfa Spider Duetto ( to me, anyway.) I never would have
gone past
the home page had I not found the restore point information through
a Google
search.

The Xbit Laboratories is also a good source of technical
information:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-vs-nv-power.html
..
You might find the information there on Display adapter power
consumption
interesting. Perhaps the article will be updated to include the
7X00 series
of nVidia based cards.

I generally like to find technical information from non-overclocking
sites
so I can have a basis to judge what I read in overclocking
enthusiast sites.

Phil Weldon



"GLoBaLReBeL" wrote in message
m...
| So, just got back from Fry's, and had a friend test all the
components
| of the computer. He tested the video card(working), the
ram(working),
| the CPU (Working), but i never got to test the mobo because i
| thought, well, if the all the components that attach to the mobo
are
| working, then there's nothing else left then the Power Supply,
and
| the Mobo. And, the Power Supply is a 600W coolmaster, so I don't
| think that the power supply is my problem! I guess I have fried
the
| mobo in some way??!?!?!?! The green light still lights up, so i
can't
| figure it out! If anyone can please get back to me with an idea,
that
| would be great. I've cleared the RTC (like 7 times already by
| unplugging the power, pulling the tiny battery, and then
switching
| the jumpers for 20 seconds then go back in reverse.) Still, i get
| nothing. I think the only logical reason is the motherboard must
be
| shot . . . any takers?
| I also just tried swapping out the new PS with the old one, and it
did
| the same thing it was doing before. With the old Power Supply,
the
| computer doesn't even run. With the new PS it runs but no beep is
| heard, and no screen is brought up. So, after much reading, and
much
| stress; I have come to the conclusion that the problem is a bad
mobo
| after a electrical shock. I'm going to try one last thing, and
that
| is to replace the cmos battery with a new one. Maybe it got messed
up
| when the power shock happened. Anyway, your insight is much
| appriciated phil. I have read, and re-read the overclocking guide
you
| posted. If you can, please help me out one last time Your
comments
| are looked forward to.
|
| (sorry, bout the double post, but you said i should reply to your
| message. Only problem is i can only Quote it. So . . here.
| Phil Weldonwrote:
| 'GLoBaLReBeL' wrote, in part:
| | Just checked all connections, and pins and so forth.
Nothing was
| | lose, all hte pins are fine(I was always gentle with the
cpu, and
| | putting it into the holder.)
| | Unfortunatly, i have no other friends with the same setup,
so I'm
| | kinda scr**ed on testing the cpu out. The original power
supply
| is
| | what caused the problem in the first place (I THINK). After
the
| | crash, the power supply would only make the lights in the
comp
| turn
| | on, then just fade away.
| _____
|
| Try your CPU in ANY compatible, working system; it need not
be an
| identical
| system.
| Try a known good, compatible CPU in your present system.
|
| Don't make assumptions about the cause of the problem,
especially
| about the
| power supply. As of now, you don't even know that either one
is
| working
| correctly.
|
| Without some way of checking the three components separately
you are
| not
| going to make progress in diagnosis (power supply/CPU/{rest
of the
| system;
| mainly the motherboard}).
|
| DO NOT make assumptions based on too little knowledge and
| experience. I
| can't see your system, so you are the one who will have to
diagnosis
| it, or
| at least gather the information. Somehow you must check the
CPU,
| power
| supply, and rest of the system to detect the fault.
|
| Or, as a final resort, buy a second Intel 805 D and try it
with your
| system
| at STOCK voltage and speed. Once you sort out the getting
operation
| at
| STOCK voltage and speed, then try the original 805 D again.
Then
| try the
| original power supply again. Do things slowly, carefully,
one step
| at a
| time, writing down each change you make. All the things you
did not
| do the
| first time around.
|
| Read my post on overclocking in reply to 'Chalky'.
|
| Also, any posts in a thread should be in reply to the
correct
| message; your
| reply should be to my message, not to the original post.
|
| Good luck. It may be that you have lost a CPU, but gained
valuable
|
| knowledge. If you don't make mistakes, you likely aren't
learning
| much.
|
| Phil Weldon
|
| "GLoBaLReBeL" wrote in
message
| . ..
| | Phil,
| | Just checked all connections, and pins and so forth.
Nothing was
| | lose, all hte pins are fine(I was always gentle with the
cpu, and
| | putting it into the holder.)
| | Unfortunatly, i have no other friends with the same setup,
so I'm
| | kinda scr**ed on testing the cpu out. The original power
supply
| is
| | what caused the problem in the first place (I THINK). After
the
| | crash, the power supply would only make the lights in the
comp
| turn
| | on, then just fade away. And when i put the 600W in, it
ran
| exactly
| | the same as it did when it was running. There is just no
boot
| screen
| | or BEEP! The screen doesn't even turn on.) I have read up
a lot
| more
| | on overclocking, and will be much safer next time, I just
want to
| make
| | sure that there isn't something I'm missing. Because
everyone has
| told
| | me that the cpu has an auto off feature, and what i
describe
| wouldn't
| | fry the cpu. But, when i switched out the 450 PS for the
new
| | coolmaster 600W, everything started up and stayed started.
Its
| just
| | there was no boot screen or anything.
| | Could you think of any other reason this might be
happening?
| |
| | Side Note : When i got fruystrated i reset the RCT by
| instructions,
| | and took the heatsink off the cpu and started the comp up.
Within
| | seconds the computer shut down. Then put the heatsink back
on,
| and
| | reset the RCT and turned on the comp, and this time it
just
| stayed
| | on, but no boot screen or anything. So if it can detect the
heat
| and
| | so forth, wouldn't that mean the cpu is still good? Thanx
for
| your
| | help ahead of time, this is very disconcerning.
| |
|

Phil, here is the power supply i bought . . .

http://www.coolermaster.com/index.ph...&other_title=0

And it seems to be fine for what i am doing.

Tod,

If you're using the default or latest bios from asus then on boot up,
you should get a message saying "failed overclock attempt". F1 to
continue.

That puts you back into BIOS where you can reset settings B4
proceeding.

I have the same mobo.

If you do that, you should be able to avoid bad things.

Unless you have premium ram sticks, you probably will have to be happy
with a 2o% overclock. That's where I'm at (P4 640 3.2 @ 3.84) and it's
very stable.

I had to slow my mem clock from 400 to 320 to achieve this, (again
cheap memory).

Once your make it happy, I think you'll be happy as well.

regards,

Al


On Tue, 23 May 2006 01:03:26 GMT, "tod"
wrote:

I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then tried
3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
I think I should have up the voltage.

"Chalky" wrote in message
...
Please review the following before responding:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would be?
The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I not
be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does that
have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all the
time.

I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english explanation.
Thanks a bunch!

Chalky, J.D.

Hi Phil,
I forgot to mention that to tod.

You're right about pci/agp.

Since I own this board, I think I remeber someone saying in one of the
OC forums that they were trying to adjust pci:agp on this board and
were unsuccessful, and that for some reason (I'm not sure why) the
agpci value was locked on this board.

Maybe for safety's sake!!

I've enjoyed your comments in this group..

Keep on keep'n on!!

Al

On Tue, 23 May 2006 01:10:57 GMT, "Phil Weldon"
wrote:

'tod' wrote:
|I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
| Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
| Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then tried
| 3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
| After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
| I think I should have up the voltage.
|_____

Make sure you have the PCI bus locked to 33 MHz. IDE hard drives can
corrupt data at anything much over 37 MHz, causing exactly the same symptom
and require exactly the same repair as you report.
"tod" wrote in message
nk.net...
|I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
| Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
| Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then tried
| 3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
| After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
| I think I should have up the voltage.
|
| "Chalky" wrote in message
| ...
| Please review the following before responding:
| http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/
|
| I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
| self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
| downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would
be?
| The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
| setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I
not
| be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
| seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does
that
| have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
| expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all
the
| time.
|
| I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english
explanation.
| Thanks a bunch!
|
| Chalky, J.D.
|
|
|
|
|

I've got three sticks of PNY 512MB PC3200 memory, they worked fine at 200MHz
DDR in my old motherboard.
I update to the latest bios just a few hours after installing the
motherboard.
I've learn one thing, when using a CPU (like the D 805) designed for the
533MHz (133MHz) QDR bus.
The Asus Bios will only allow 266 or 333 bus speed, not 400 (200MHz DDR).

"Al Brumski" ? wrote in message
news
Tod,

If you're using the default or latest bios from asus then on boot up,
you should get a message saying "failed overclock attempt". F1 to
continue.

That puts you back into BIOS where you can reset settings B4
proceeding.

I have the same mobo.

If you do that, you should be able to avoid bad things.

Unless you have premium ram sticks, you probably will have to be happy
with a 2o% overclock. That's where I'm at (P4 640 3.2 @ 3.84) and it's
very stable.

I had to slow my mem clock from 400 to 320 to achieve this, (again
cheap memory).

Once your make it happy, I think you'll be happy as well.

regards,

Al


On Tue, 23 May 2006 01:03:26 GMT, "tod"
wrote:

I just installed the Intel D 805 & Asus P5P800SE motherboard, using Intel
Heatsink/Fan & Powork 600W power supply.
Overclocking to 3.2GHz (166) worked fine with standard voltage, then tried
3.49GHz (175), got a bad Windows error message on boot up.
After that Win XP refused to work, had to repair/install Windows XP.
I think I should have up the voltage.

"Chalky" wrote in message
...
Please review the following before responding:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

I am thinking about building a new PC from scratch--it would be my first
self built machine. Can anyone explain to me in plain english what the
downside of using the 805 D and overclocking it up near 4.0 GHz would
be?
The X2 athalon chips would be within my budget, but the tomshardware 805
setup looks like it out performs them if done right. But, what would I
not
be getting with the 805? What is the tradeoff? Based on tomshardware, it
seems that the 805 overclock would require a lot more power, but does
that
have implications other than needing a bigger power supply? Is it more
expensive to run in terms of electricity? I'd like to leave it on all
the
time.

I'm not really a techie and would appreciate a plain english
explanation.
Thanks a bunch!

Chalky, J.D.

Just an update . . . Went out and bought a new Asus P5wd2-E Premium
Mobo, and tried starting it up . . only to find out it does the same
****ing THING!!! The only thing left now is the power supply, and IT
BETTER BE THE ****ING PROBLEM!!!! Going down to fry's to exchange for
a new one.

'GLoBaLReBeL' wrote, in part:
| Just an update . . . Went out and bought a new Asus P5wd2-E Premium
| Mobo, and tried starting it up . . only to find out it does the same
| ****ing THING!!! The only thing left now is the power supply, and IT
| BETTER BE THE ****ING PROBLEM!!!! Going down to fry's to exchange for
| a new one.
_____

Remember what I posted?
"So take a deep breath and relax. Make the necessary checks before
purchasing anything.

Do NOT assume that your original power supply was deficient.
Do NOT assume that the problem is with your motherboard, and do NOT assume
it is with either or both power supplies."

Phil Weldon

"GLoBaLReBeL" wrote in message
. ..
| Just an update . . . Went out and bought a new Asus P5wd2-E Premium
| Mobo, and tried starting it up . . only to find out it does the same
| ****ing THING!!! The only thing left now is the power supply, and IT
| BETTER BE THE ****ING PROBLEM!!!! Going down to fry's to exchange for
| a new one.
|