Problem with new P4 3.06 & win98se installation

Hi,


Don't quite agree on this one, I have a dual boot system and although I
mainly use win 2k, it also has win 98 installed, and has more than 512MB
of RAM, no problems whatsover not even during installation ...

DaveW wrote:
You know, of course, that Win 98SE, cannot use more than 512MB of RAM or the
systems freezes/crashes.

X-No-Archive: yes

Hi

EXACTLY when does it lock up? Precision here might be critical.
Does it make it to the desktop?
Have you tried creating a bootlog (F8 menu selection after the POST
screen).

It locks up just as soon as everything is loaded up..and it makes it to the
desktop.
It even does this from a fresh install on another hard disk.. when you
supposed to get control
of the desktop thats when it will freeze.

Its not something loading from any of the system files as I used msconfig
and disabled everything and it
still crashes.

I just changed the CPU and it works again - so win98 doesnt like the new
CPU.

It could be the PNPDRV in windows or ACPI driver but im not sure.


My board is ABIT TH7IIRAID and although it doesnt offically support the
533
FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

... so it's overclocked. First thing to do is obvious enough,
UN-overclock it. Reduce the FSB speed to spec for the motherboard, that
is, 100MHz, and see if it still crashes. Nevermind that the CPU will be
underclocked for the moment, we need to establish whether the FSB o'c is
an issue. Performance may be relatively poor with the underclocked memory
bus anyway, you might consider a newer motherboard & memory.


Not exactly overclocked its the correct speed for my CPU.

But I tried it anyway with a normal 100mhz bus x 23 to underclock it to
2.3ghz and no luck
still crashes at the same place.

The bootlog is useless :

"Init = Final USER
InitDone = Final USER
Init = Installable Drivers
InitDone = Installable Drivers
Init = TSRQuery
InitDone = TSRQuery
[000375CA] Starting Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CA] Started Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CB] Enumerating Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
[000375CB] Enumerated Unknown (HTREE\RESERVED\0)
Terminate = User
Terminate = Query Drivers
EndTerminate = Query Drivers
Terminate = Unload Network
EndTerminate = Unload Network
Terminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = Reset Display
EndTerminate = User"

I dont really want to buy another motherboard just yet but I might have to
do to get it to work.

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:36:23 +0100, "127.0.0.1"
wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes

Hi

EXACTLY when does it lock up? Precision here might be critical.
Does it make it to the desktop?
Have you tried creating a bootlog (F8 menu selection after the POST
screen).

It locks up just as soon as everything is loaded up..and it makes it to the
desktop.
It even does this from a fresh install on another hard disk.. when you
supposed to get control
of the desktop thats when it will freeze.

Its not something loading from any of the system files as I used msconfig
and disabled everything and it
still crashes.

I just changed the CPU and it works again - so win98 doesnt like the new
CPU.

It could be the PNPDRV in windows or ACPI driver but im not sure.

Just changing the CPU shouldn't affect the PNPDRV or ACPI, AFAIK.
Someone has mentioned the NDIS.VXD file, but otherwise I don't recall
other issues relating to the CPU speed. I still feel it's possible that
the motherboard is instable due to bus overclock.


FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

... so it's overclocked. First thing to do is obvious enough,
UN-overclock it. Reduce the FSB speed to spec for the motherboard, that
is, 100MHz, and see if it still crashes. Nevermind that the CPU will be
underclocked for the moment, we need to establish whether the FSB o'c is
an issue. Performance may be relatively poor with the underclocked memory
bus anyway, you might consider a newer motherboard & memory.


Not exactly overclocked its the correct speed for my CPU.

The motherboard is overclocked. When overclocked it has potential for
causing problems even if CPU isn't overclocked.

But I tried it anyway with a normal 100mhz bus x 23 to underclock it to
2.3ghz and no luck, still crashes at the same place.

I dont really want to buy another motherboard just yet but I might have to
do to get it to work.

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:03:03 GMT, kony wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:36:23 +0100, "127.0.0.1"
wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes

Hi

EXACTLY when does it lock up? Precision here might be critical.
Does it make it to the desktop?
Have you tried creating a bootlog (F8 menu selection after the POST
screen).

It locks up just as soon as everything is loaded up..and it makes it to the
desktop.
It even does this from a fresh install on another hard disk.. when you
supposed to get control
of the desktop thats when it will freeze.

Its not something loading from any of the system files as I used msconfig
and disabled everything and it
still crashes.

I just changed the CPU and it works again - so win98 doesnt like the new
CPU.

It could be the PNPDRV in windows or ACPI driver but im not sure.

Just changing the CPU shouldn't affect the PNPDRV or ACPI, AFAIK.
Someone has mentioned the NDIS.VXD file, but otherwise I don't recall
other issues relating to the CPU speed. I still feel it's possible that
the motherboard is instable due to bus overclock.


FSB,
I overclocked it to 133fsb x 23. I underclocked the RAM to 300.

... so it's overclocked. First thing to do is obvious enough,
UN-overclock it. Reduce the FSB speed to spec for the motherboard, that
is, 100MHz, and see if it still crashes. Nevermind that the CPU will be
underclocked for the moment, we need to establish whether the FSB o'c is
an issue. Performance may be relatively poor with the underclocked memory
bus anyway, you might consider a newer motherboard & memory.


Not exactly overclocked its the correct speed for my CPU.

The motherboard is overclocked. When overclocked it has potential for
causing problems even if CPU isn't overclocked.

But I tried it anyway with a normal 100mhz bus x 23 to underclock it to
2.3ghz and no luck, still crashes at the same place.

I dont really want to buy another motherboard just yet but I might have to
do to get it to work.

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.

Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is that's freezing his system.
It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just find out everything
that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running and loaded in safe mode
(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For starters, I'd look at the
graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated functions and see if that
makes any sort of difference.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net

X-No-Archive: yes

Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is
that's freezing his system.
It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just
find out everything
that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running
and loaded in safe mode
(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For
starters, I'd look at the
graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated
functions and see if that
makes any sort of difference.



Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

127.0.0.1 wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes


Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is

that's freezing his system.

It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just

find out everything

that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running

and loaded in safe mode

(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For

starters, I'd look at the

graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated

functions and see if that

makes any sort of difference.




Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs XP, that
you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?

A few comments from other messages in the thread.

You seem surprised that safe mode makes a difference. Safe mode disables
all hardware specific drivers and backs down to generic ones. I.E. no
display acceleration, no fancy chipset IDE drivers, etc. It's 'bare bones'
functionality.

That it fails when the 'fancy drivers' are being used suggests that some
driver is not operating properly with the hardware. However, since WinXP
appears to work that would suggest it isn't the hardware.

The common 'difference' between the three seems to be the hardware specific
drivers in Win98. It works without them and it works with WinXP drivers.

Win98 is an older operating system. Where are you getting the drivers for
the hardware that Windows98 can't know about because it didn't exist when
windows98 was distributed? Are you 100% sure that you've installed all the
correct drivers (e.g. chipset) for windows98?

A lockup just as it goes to the desktop sounds like a display problem. That
could be either the display drier itself or the chipset AGP port drivers.
It could also be other drivers, such as the CPU/PCI bridge (AGP display
commands come through the PCI bus), etc. I.E. Anything that is in the loop
for the display.

Another item of curiosity: Why a hyperthreading CPU on a motherboard that
doesn't support hyperthreading?

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:28:24 +0100, "127.0.0.1" wrote:

X-No-Archive: yes

Afraid I can't be much help, never had a P4 box fail at a clean Win98
install but run other OS OK, and I'm out of ideas.

He might try to update his BIOS...or try and isolate EXACTLY what it is
that's freezing his system.
It'd be a lil tedious, easier to just use WinXP, but he could do it. Just
find out everything
that's running and being loaded, subtract out everything that's running
and loaded in safe mode
(since it works in safe mode) and then check all the rest one by one. For
starters, I'd look at the
graphics card/driver. Throttle it back to 16 colors and no accelerated
functions and see if that
makes any sort of difference.



Think im going to have to give up on this problem.

I just did a format C: and re-installed windows98se .. just when it finished
everything and was about to run
again it locked up at the same spot.. so im sure its a hardware problem.
Damn P4 3ghz!!

I dont think there is anything more I can try to get it to work.. I have the
latest BIOS.

Time to buy a new motherboard - anyone recommend one ?

You're going to buy a new motherboard eh? ...and you actually think that's gonna somehow fix yer
lil Win98 problem?

*shakes head*

Why not just upgrade to WinXP? Sure it takes more effort to neuter the little bitch, but once you
do you'll find it to be a LOT more stable. Not to mention all the other perks.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net

I dont understand why it works in safe mode and why XP works.... its a
hard
problem to track down.

Thanks for your help.


To me the answer seems fairly obvious ( although I am no expert).
Safemode uses a minimal set of drivers
So obviously your new processor will not work with some of your
sysyems drivers.
The only question which is drivers. I presume it is easy to find
which one if you know what you are doing (I don't without
trying).
( all you need to do is to selectively load the drivers?)
XP works presumeably because it uses different drivers.
As has been pointed out changing you mobo will make know
difference as you know you mobo is fine as you have had
it running in XP.

David Maynard wrote:

.... snip ...

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs
XP, that you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?

Maybe he wants convenient direct access to serial and parallel
ports. Maybe he doesn't want to accede to the XP EULA, giving
Bill et cie. unlimited snooping and editorial rights on his
machine, not to mention the right to force him to upgrade at his
expense and their desire.

--
Chuck F ) )
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
http://cbfalconer.home.att.net USE worldnet address!

CBFalconer wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

... snip ...

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set on running Win98se, vs
XP, that you'd go to the length of buying another motherboard?


Maybe he wants convenient direct access to serial and parallel
ports. Maybe he doesn't want to accede to the XP EULA, giving
Bill et cie. unlimited snooping and editorial rights on his
machine, not to mention the right to force him to upgrade at his
expense and their desire.


Thank you for the editorial but I wasn't asking whether YOU liked Bill
Gates; I was asking him why HE wanted to run Windows 98.