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Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and'start fixing real problems'



 
 
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  #81  
Old July 18th 20, 09:54 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
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Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-18 05:04, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 18/07/2020 07:09, nospam wrote:
In article , wrote:


We build little computers with parts.¬* Then went to
CPU.¬* All assembly code!


that doesn't make any sense.


Tiny CPUs often have tiny instruction sets that aren't well suited to
any high level language.


That was not the purpose. It was to teach you how they worked.

The first project I did on a PIC16C55 we did in assembler.
It was not really too difficult. The whole thing fitted on about 3 pages.

We did later get a "C compiler" for those chips but it was pushing it to
call the language "C". It was mostly the syntax of C but nothing but
static variables. Weird syntax to configure the chip the way you wanted.
I can't even remember how you did I/O on it; must have been another
weird extension to the syntax. It made it easier but not as much as you
might think.


We never got much past an 8080. And some Arithmetic Log Unit
which I can't remember.



  #82  
Old July 18th 20, 09:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
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Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-18 07:16, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-07-18 1:37 a.m., VanguardLH wrote:
One day a prof arrived just before his class, put his hat on his desk,
but got busy elsewhere.¬* When he got back and very late for class, all
the students had left.¬* The next day he declared, "When my hat is on my
desk, that's the same as I'm here."¬* The next day the students came in,
put hats on their chairs, and left.


Good One¬* VanguardLH :-)¬* :-)

Rene


I second that!

My goodness th condescending, arrogant, pompous blow hards
we all had to suffer. But not all of them fortunately.
the best teaches were the part times that had jobs in
industry with some kind of work arrangement with their
employers. Now that is where the rubber met the road!

  #83  
Old July 18th 20, 10:00 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Linuxfounder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixingreal problems')

On 2020-07-18 02:39, Andy Burns wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I know "could care less" is the US version of this expression

Please don't attribute that mangled expression to all of us over
here.


Very sorry! Glad it's not universal in US. But I haven't seen it at
all used in UK.


I must admit I did think all Americans used the "could care less"
variation.¬* Similarly I thought all Americans used "I'm ****ed" (which
in the UK means "I'm drunk") rather than "I'm ****ed off" but I've
started to hear the latter more now.


A good video on this is Superman and Hot Fuzz
discussing British Slang:

Henry Cavill and Simon Pegg Teach You English Slang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIj1nDUs9g

So in the UK would "I'm ****ed off" mean you are
sober?

:-)


  #84  
Old July 18th 20, 10:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems')

On 2020-07-18 14:00, T wrote:
On 2020-07-18 02:39, Andy Burns wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I know "could care less" is the US version of this expression

Please don't attribute that mangled expression to all of us over
here.

Very sorry! Glad it's not universal in US. But I haven't seen it at
all used in UK.


I must admit I did think all Americans used the "could care less"
variation.¬* Similarly I thought all Americans used "I'm ****ed" (which
in the UK means "I'm drunk") rather than "I'm ****ed off" but I've
started to hear the latter more now.


A good video on this is Superman and Hot Fuzz
discussing British Slang:

Henry Cavill and Simon Pegg Teach You English Slang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIj1nDUs9g

So in the UK would "I'm ****ed off" mean you are
sober?

:-)


Oh and our GI's picked up the word "Crap", as in
"I am going to the crapper" from your guys:
Thomas Crapper & Co. Crapper's trade marks
were all over your crappers.

And GI's picked up "****", as in "I am going to
go take a ****", from the French word for the
crapper: ****oir.

Apparently our British Allies didn't quite
educates us properly on the latter.









  #85  
Old July 19th 20, 02:46 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

Yousuf Khan wrote:

Prime95 is exactly an example of a benchmark and stress testing app.
Nobody is actually using Prime95 for anything other than stress
testing and benchmarking.


Yep, elide over the intent of the authors of Prime95, because that would
be another example of several shown where AVX is used.
  #86  
Old July 19th 20, 04:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

VanguardLH wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:

Prime95 is exactly an example of a benchmark and stress testing app.
Nobody is actually using Prime95 for anything other than stress
testing and benchmarking.


Yep, elide over the intent of the authors of Prime95, because that would
be another example of several shown where AVX is used.


If they're not careful, they're going to scare the kids
away from overclocking :-/

https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=24445

Paul
  #87  
Old July 19th 20, 09:28 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems')

On 2020-07-17 07:55, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 22:35:33, T wrote:

[]
It is the apps the customer cares about.¬* They could


couldn't

care less if they were run int Flying Zucchini OS, if
it ran their apps.

[]
I know "could care less" is the US version of this expression, but it's
inaccurate. Think about it: if you could care less, that implies that
you do care a little - which is not what you mean; you actually mean
"couldn't care less".


My American trophy wife -- the ultimate word smith -- has
a "from and to" rule:

"I take something FROM you"

"I give something TO you"


  #88  
Old July 19th 20, 02:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

Andy Burns wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I wonder how a car knows a gas sniffer is poking up its ahole. Oooh,
warm that up first before sticking it in. I suppose the car's computer
could notice the car wheels weren't rotating when the engine got revved
up and the steering wheel wasn't turning.


A bit more complex than that, but basically spotting conditions of the
standardised tests and switching into an alternate ECU mode

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7331-the_exhaust_emissions_scandal_dieselgate

Jump to 57:00 if you just want the money shot, but the whole thing is
worth a watch ...


That was interesting. I jumped to the timemark, but decided it was too
much out of context, so I watched it all. Interesting how the
alternative model was used for most of the driving (underdoses the NH3
to convert NO) but switched to the main model during the conditions of
NEDC testing. Man, they sure are tricky. Also interesting is that VW
isn't the only one, but BMW was caught a decade before but managed to
silently alter their model. Apparently lots of brands do this trickery.
It's almost a requirement for the car to be road-worthy, but still pass
the emission testing for when the car is tested under nothing like road
use of the vehicle.
  #89  
Old July 19th 20, 03:09 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_3_]
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Posts: 24
Default General ramblings (with some Linux flavouring). (Was: Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems')

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 01:28:52, T wrote:
On 2020-07-17 07:55, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 22:35:33, T wrote:

[]
It is the apps the customer cares about.* They could

couldn't

care less if they were run int Flying Zucchini OS, if
it ran their apps.

[]
I know "could care less" is the US version of this expression, but
it's inaccurate. Think about it: if you could care less, that implies
that you do care a little - which is not what you mean; you actually
mean "couldn't care less".


My American trophy wife -- the ultimate word smith -- has
a "from and to" rule:

"I take something FROM you"

"I give something TO you"


Not sure how that relates to the "care less" discussion. If it relates
to the debate whether to us different from, different to, or different
than, I'm not sure how it would help there either.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

At the end of the day, I wasn't asking to kill the pandas, I was simply asking
for an audit in terms of conservation resources, and I stand by every word.
-Chris Packham, quoted in Radio Times, 29 May - 4 June 2010
  #90  
Old July 19th 20, 04:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Brian Gregory[_2_]
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Posts: 6
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 18/07/2020 16:57, nospam wrote:
In article , Brian Gregory
wrote:


We build little computers with parts. Then went to
CPU. All assembly code!

that doesn't make any sense.


Tiny CPUs often have tiny instruction sets that aren't well suited to
any high level language.


he didn't specify tiny cpus with tiny instruction sets or writing
software for them.

he said built computers with parts and *then* went to cpus.

computers built before there were cpus were not little. they were minis
and mainframes, which end users did not build.

The first project I did on a PIC16C55 we did in assembler.
It was not really too difficult. The whole thing fitted on about 3 pages.

We did later get a "C compiler" for those chips but it was pushing it to
call the language "C". It was mostly the syntax of C but nothing but
static variables. Weird syntax to configure the chip the way you wanted.
I can't even remember how you did I/O on it; must have been another
weird extension to the syntax. It made it easier but not as much as you
might think.


in other words, assembly code not needed.


Well not needed yes but that compiler was a bit of a POS and we had to
pay quite a lot for it. For that chip it was arguably not worth it for us.

However for some of the slightly bigger chips it was definitely worth it.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
 




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