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Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and'start fixing real problems'



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 16th 20, 10:01 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Is Linus even a gamer? Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for
Linux.


Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming. Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You didn't provide a timemark for the related content, and I wasn't
going to watch all of the 22 minute video, so I moved the slider to skim
through it. The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could
now detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I saw
something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows games on
Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the Windows games
inside of WINE. Wonder how the benchmarks reflect the performance of a
Windows game running inside of WINE versus running the Windows game atop
Steam's shim.

https://itsfoss.com/steam-play/

Oh, so Steam Play simply provides a fork of WINE as its shim between the
native OS platform and the Windows-only game. The Windows games will
likely be impacted the same whether ran inside of WINE or Steam's
variant of WINE. I didn't even bother to address running anything
Windows inside of WINE or via any other emulation layer, like VMWare
Player for Linux running Windows as a guest OS and then running a
Windows game inside of that virtual machine. That something is doable
doesn't mean it should be.

That still means the games were *not* developed for the Linux platform.
They were written for the Windows platform. Guess I should've qualified
my statement by saying:

"Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection of native Linux games. "

Do hardcore gamers even bother with WINE? Conversely, everything Linux
can be played on Windows, too, so the user could use a Windows platform
to play native Windows games and emulated Linux games. Is there much
draw for that scenario? You can even play Android apps on Windows by
using a shim aka emulator, like Bluestacks. There's native-on-native,
and then there are less-than-ideal workarounds.
  #12  
Old July 16th 20, 10:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 1:35 p.m., T wrote:
On 2020-07-15 11:42, VanguardLH wrote:
Is Linus
even a gamer?* Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for Linux.


Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming.* Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You make joke, Yes? :-)

Rene

  #13  
Old July 16th 20, 10:26 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 15:22:44, VanguardLH wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 13:42:37, VanguardLH wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:

Linus Torvalds' comments came from this article: https://is.gd/6zpZRL

Full URL:
https://www.pcgamer.com/linux-founde...inventing-magi
c-instructions-and-start-fixing-real-problems/#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fww
w.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=ht tps%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgamer.c
om%2Flinux-founder-tells-intel-to-stop-inventing-magic-instructions-and-
start-fixing-real-problems%2F


I'm a little surprised at VLH for the above: surely it's rather _more_
than a Full URL: I think you could truncate it before the # sign. What

[]
I gave the full URL that the *OP* provided with the shortened version.


Fairy nuff.
[]
Tweaking hardware to look good in benchmarks is news to you? Video

[]
Not exclusive to computing hardware of course! The last _big_ one I can
remember is Volkswagen getting _caught_ detecting when their engines

[]
I wonder how a car knows a gas sniffer is poking up its ahole. Oooh,
warm that up first before sticking it in. I suppose the car's computer
could notice the car wheels weren't rotating when the engine got revved
up and the steering wheel wasn't turning.


Could be. If done for a long time, maybe.

My state dropped emissions testing (for consumer vehicles which the
owner had to pay an $8 fee before they could get tabs) a long time ago.


Interesting; I didn't know some states didn't have any limits.
[]
testing despite our state has a green light. Must've been in sub-EPA or
more green-centric states where VW got busted for cheating.


There is a world outside "the states" (-:! Given that that particular
violation was Diesel engines, and I don't think Diesel cars are that
popular in the USA, it might well have first come to light somewhere in
EU. Ironically, the Germans are particularly keen on "green" matters.
(Though are also rather against nuclear, which is again ironic, as a lot
of their coal output is a rather dirty variety.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)
  #14  
Old July 16th 20, 10:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Jonathan N. Little
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

VanguardLH wrote:
You didn't provide a timemark for the related content, and I wasn't
going to watch all of the 22 minute video, so I moved the slider to skim
through it. The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could
now detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I saw
something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows games on
Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the Windows games
inside of WINE. Wonder how the benchmarks reflect the performance of a
Windows game running inside of WINE versus running the Windows game atop
Steam's shim.


No all Steam games on Linux are Windows games running in WINE, many are
truly ported. I've got the Borderland games and they are ports not
running in WINE. Proton and WINE just extend selection for old games
avoiding the need to port.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #15  
Old July 16th 20, 10:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
T[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

On 2020-07-16 14:01, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Is Linus even a gamer? Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for
Linux.


Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming. Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You didn't provide a timemark for the related content, and I wasn't
going to watch all of the 22 minute video, so I moved the slider to skim
through it. The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could
now detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I saw
something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows games on
Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the Windows games
inside of WINE. Wonder how the benchmarks reflect the performance of a
Windows game running inside of WINE versus running the Windows game atop
Steam's shim.

https://itsfoss.com/steam-play/

Oh, so Steam Play simply provides a fork of WINE as its shim between the
native OS platform and the Windows-only game. The Windows games will
likely be impacted the same whether ran inside of WINE or Steam's
variant of WINE. I didn't even bother to address running anything
Windows inside of WINE or via any other emulation layer, like VMWare
Player for Linux running Windows as a guest OS and then running a
Windows game inside of that virtual machine. That something is doable
doesn't mean it should be.

That still means the games were *not* developed for the Linux platform.
They were written for the Windows platform. Guess I should've qualified
my statement by saying:

"Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection of native Linux games."

Do hardcore gamers even bother with WINE? Conversely, everything Linux
can be played on Windows, too, so the user could use a Windows platform
to play native Windows games and emulated Linux games. Is there much
draw for that scenario? You can even play Android apps on Windows by
using a shim aka emulator, like Bluestacks. There's native-on-native,
and then there are less-than-ideal workarounds.


Titus starts in with Lutris at about 7:25


  #16  
Old July 17th 20, 12:08 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-07-16 1:35 p.m., T wrote:
On 2020-07-15 11:42, VanguardLH wrote:
Is Linus
even a gamer? Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for Linux.


Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming. Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You make joke, Yes? :-)

Rene


Are we playing "Sodoku" yet ?

Paul
  #17  
Old July 17th 20, 12:12 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

"Jonathan N. Little" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could now
detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I
saw something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows
games on Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the
Windows games inside of WINE.


No all Steam games on Linux are Windows games running in WINE, many
are truly ported. I've got the Borderland games and they are ports
not running in WINE. Proton and WINE just extend selection for old
games avoiding the need to port.


And does that somehow lopside the bias of game count to make native
Linux games far exceed those native games available on Windows? Of
course not. A game that had been ported to be a native Linux app is
obviously no longer a Windows app. A ported Windows game becomes a
native Linux game. The count of Linux games, whether native or ported
to make native, are still meager compared to the count of native games
on Windows.

Steam Play (Steam for Linux) detects the platform for the game probably
via a manifest for the game specifying its native platform. If it's a
native Linux game, it just loads it in Linux. If a Windows game, it
uses its WINE variant (aka Proton) to run the Windows game in that
emulator running atop Linux.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...ows-only-games

The confirmed list of Windows-only games that are compatible atop
Steam's Proton variant of is small. That's just the ones that Steam has
confirmed are compatible.

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Proton

has a hyperlink pointing to a list of app manifests/mappings for 100+
compatible Windows games. There's also a link to user-reported game
compatibility.

Proton converts the DX 10/11 calls to Vulkan to help keep game
performance similar to the Windows game when ran native on Windows.
That is dependent on the available of proprietary Linux drivers for
video hardware, the efficiency in coding the Linux video driver, and
compatibility of the Linux driver provided by the video maker to run on
other Linux variants (most don't list just Linux but some variant as
supported).

Regardless of the workarounds, they still don't alter which are native
Linux games and which are native Windows games, and the huge disparity
in counts between them. As noted, you can run Linux stuff on Windows,
but that doesn't magically mutate them into native Windows apps. Linux
marketshare floats around 2%, so obviously the game authors are going to
target the market that has the biggest ROI. That's not Linux.

I'm not a Windows proselytizer or Linux defender. I believe in using
the platform that best suits the task. Sorry, I still don't see Linux
as the best choice for a gaming platform.
  #18  
Old July 17th 20, 12:15 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 213
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:22:44 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 13:42:37, VanguardLH wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:

Linus Torvalds' comments came from this article: https://is.gd/6zpZRL

Full URL:
https://www.pcgamer.com/linux-founde...inventing-magi
c-instructions-and-start-fixing-real-problems/#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fww
w.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=ht tps%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgamer.c
om%2Flinux-founder-tells-intel-to-stop-inventing-magic-instructions-and-
start-fixing-real-problems%2F


I'm a little surprised at VLH for the above: surely it's rather _more_
than a Full URL: I think you could truncate it before the # sign. What
follows are "referrer" and "From", with another couple of URLs in there
(with the "://"s and subsequent "/"s turned into their hex equivalents).


is.gd, the URL shortening service that the OP used, does not provide a
preview mode. With TinyURL, you can add the "preview" hostname to see
where shortened URL points.

Well, is.gd does have a preview mode, but it's clumsy. You go to:

https://is.gd/previews.php

click on the "... see preview page ...", leave the web browser open, and
then click on the shortened URL the OP provided. Their page then shows
the full original URL and, yep, it has all that crap in it. Or you can
use on of the URL lengthener sites to reveal the original URL.

I gave the full URL that the *OP* provided with the shortened version.
Complain to the OP about not truncating URLs to their minimum. If he
had, he would not have needed the URL shortening service. The full URL:

https://www.pcgamer.com/linux-founde...real-problems/

is perhaps longer than the typical line length viewed in NNTP clients,
but slicing up URLs that are longer than the logical (viewed) line
length by injecting newlines (slicing URLs into multiple physical lines)
is a defect of the sender's client. Physical lines can be up to 998
characters long (that's the old-time recommendation). Maybe some NNTP
clients have problems when viewing physical line lengths longer than
their viewable line length making the URL not clickable, and why I've
seen some posters enclose the long URL within angle brackets, like
URL, as a workaround for deficient clients.


With some newsreaders, such as my old copy of Agent 2.0, brackets aren't a
workaround for a deficient client. They are simply markers to let the
composition window know that the configured line length value should be
ignored for text between the brackets.

  #19  
Old July 17th 20, 12:31 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Jonathan N. Little
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions'and 'start fixing real problems'

VanguardLH wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:


snip

Steam Play (Steam for Linux) detects the platform for the game probably
via a manifest for the game specifying its native platform. If it's a
native Linux game, it just loads it in Linux. If a Windows game, it
uses its WINE variant (aka Proton) to run the Windows game in that
emulator running atop Linux.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...ows-only-games


2 years old. The landscape is changing rapidly. Of the top 100 games 1/3
now ported. More will be in the future with new games.

https://www.protondb.com/

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #20  
Old July 17th 20, 12:33 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default Linux founder tells Intel to stop inventing 'magic instructions' and 'start fixing real problems'

T wrote:

On 2020-07-16 14:01, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Is Linus even a gamer? Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection for
Linux.

Linux is not tied with Windows for gaming. Take
a gander at:

Fedora 31 | Features, Gaming, and New Daily Driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8oBlOTBho


You didn't provide a timemark for the related content, and I wasn't
going to watch all of the 22 minute video, so I moved the slider to skim
through it. The author started talking about Steam on Linux which could
now detect the native OS platform to know which game titles to present.
Steam represents about 78% of the marketshare for computer games. I saw
something about them using a compatibility shim to run Windows games on
Linux platforms eliminating the need to run Steam and the Windows games
inside of WINE. Wonder how the benchmarks reflect the performance of a
Windows game running inside of WINE versus running the Windows game atop
Steam's shim.

https://itsfoss.com/steam-play/

Oh, so Steam Play simply provides a fork of WINE as its shim between the
native OS platform and the Windows-only game. The Windows games will
likely be impacted the same whether ran inside of WINE or Steam's
variant of WINE. I didn't even bother to address running anything
Windows inside of WINE or via any other emulation layer, like VMWare
Player for Linux running Windows as a guest OS and then running a
Windows game inside of that virtual machine. That something is doable
doesn't mean it should be.

That still means the games were *not* developed for the Linux platform.
They were written for the Windows platform. Guess I should've qualified
my statement by saying:

"Oh wait, yeah, not that big a selection of native Linux games."

Do hardcore gamers even bother with WINE? Conversely, everything Linux
can be played on Windows, too, so the user could use a Windows platform
to play native Windows games and emulated Linux games. Is there much
draw for that scenario? You can even play Android apps on Windows by
using a shim aka emulator, like Bluestacks. There's native-on-native,
and then there are less-than-ideal workarounds.


Titus starts in with Lutris at about 7:25


He first shows installing Lutris (Open Gaming Platform) before
installing Steam Play. Is Lutris even needed to use Steam's dispatcher
to decide if a game's manifest says it is Windows-only to then run it
under Steam's Proton variant of WINE? Isn't Lutris a Linux game library
manager and launcher, and perhaps across multiple sources (Steam,
battle.net, GOG)?

The video author says Lutris has no documentation. Really? Learning is
solely by trial-and-error, or pleading for info in a user community?

Before all that, he installed rpmFusion to get all the libs that Redhat
doesn't include on which Lutris and Steam Play might be dependent.
Install this, a must. Maybe install that. Then install Steam Play. I
take it Lutris and Steam Play won't grab, download, and install any libs
they are dependent upon. Seems this could be further streamlined for a
bigger lure to users to leave Windows. Maybe the chained installs are
needed just for Fedora.
 




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