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Changing 'default' FSB speed with Tualatin?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 04, 11:14 PM
~misfit~
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Changing 'default' FSB speed with Tualatin?

I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L integrated
mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between 66/100/133, or
switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get the default FSB speed
from the CPU and it then allows you a certain overclock (in BIOS) from
there, in pre-determined steps unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a time.
Well, my 1.3 is running 24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for 1.612Ghz. I'm
pleased with that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with a
Barton and stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct
contact with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however this
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5, ranging
between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly 1.4Ghz in this board
last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran fine though, however I didn't
try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both have 1.5v written on them)

Now, 1.61Ghz is pretty damn good I figure. (Even though it's a dreaded Via
chipset board I get 107 marks with CPUMark99, up from 84.9 at 100Mhz FSB).
From what I can tell I can't monitor die-temp with this board. However
socket temp sits at around 29C, case temp 19C, crunching SETI full-time,
about the same as the 1.4 did using it's stock HSF. It's winter here.

I'm never satisfied with an OC until I've reached the point where I get
errors in Prime, then backed off to my last stable setting. I can't do that
with this set up as-is. Also the PCI bus is 41Mhz, a setting I'm not exactly
comfortable with although all seems fine. The only card I have in it is an
Adaptec AHA-2940-AU for my old scanner and it's always been a forgiving card
bus-speed-wise, everything else is on-board. (I haven't tried my scanner at
this speed though). The HDD is an old 8.4GB Fujitsu. The board actually has
three bulging capacitors, with two of them leaking a little on top. I have
replacements ordered and they should be here in a few days. I was going to
replace them as soon as they arrived, however, with it running this well I
might just leave them as they are until I *have* to replace them (unless I'm
risking my CPU?)

So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I need to
revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB CPU? It does run
133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and have the PCI back in spec.
I realise that there isn't a very good chance of me getting it to run at
that speed (especially with no vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem to be
a good bit of silicon, I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you
understand.

Can it be easilly done? This is my second machine, mainly used for SETI
(BOINC actually) and a bit of 'muling' in multiplayer Diablo2 games.

I have seen a web page with other people's OCs on it, some overclocking
site. Does anyone have the URL? I'd be interested to see how far others have
managed to push their Tui Cellys.

Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks does it
get with CPUMark99 on a BX?

Thanks in advance for the replies folks.
--
~misfit~


  #2  
Old July 20th 04, 12:52 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

~misfit~ wrote:

I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L integrate=

d
mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between 66/100/133, or
switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get the default FSB s=

peed
from the CPU and it then allows you a certain overclock (in BIOS) from
there, in pre-determined steps unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a t=

ime.
Well, my 1.3 is running 24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for 1.612Ghz=

=2E I'm
pleased with that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with a
Barton and stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct
contact with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however t=

his
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5, rangi=

ng
between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly 1.4Ghz in this =

board
last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran fine though, however I d=

idn't
try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both have 1.5v written on them)


I've noticed odd Vcore values with tualatins on non-tualatin motherboards=
=20
as well but it's not a problem here as I always have something else setti=
ng=20
it.

The tualatins using an open drain FET to set the Vcore identification pin=
s=20
whereas the earlier celerons used straight wire shorts to ground. And the=
=20
specs for earlier tualatins specify the motherboard pull up to be 10K, or=
=20
more, while the tualatin says 1K. I could imagine that the 10K "or more" =

pull-up on the non tualatin motherboards is not always sufficient to driv=
e=20
the pin high when it's not being pulled low by the on-board FET.

Which would be a great theory except for not explaining why yours seem to=
=20
be 'high' instead of low, as that theory would expect. Unless the on-die =

FET pull downs depend on some Vss pin that's 'unused' on earlier motherbo=
ards.

Whatever the reason, I've seen it too.


Now, 1.61Ghz is pretty damn good I figure. (Even though it's a dreaded =

Via
chipset board I get 107 marks with CPUMark99, up from 84.9 at 100Mhz FS=

B).
From what I can tell I can't monitor die-temp with this board. However
socket temp sits at around 29=B0C, case temp 19=B0C, crunching SETI ful=

l-time,
about the same as the 1.4 did using it's stock HSF. It's winter here.
=20
I'm never satisfied with an OC until I've reached the point where I get=


errors in Prime, then backed off to my last stable setting. I can't do =

that
with this set up as-is. Also the PCI bus is 41Mhz, a setting I'm not ex=

actly
comfortable with although all seems fine. The only card I have in it is=

an
Adaptec AHA-2940-AU for my old scanner and it's always been a forgiving=

card
bus-speed-wise, everything else is on-board. (I haven't tried my scanne=

r at
this speed though). The HDD is an old 8.4GB Fujitsu. The board actually=

has
three bulging capacitors, with two of them leaking a little on top. I h=

ave
replacements ordered and they should be here in a few days. I was going=

to
replace them as soon as they arrived, however, with it running this wel=

l I
might just leave them as they are until I *have* to replace them (unles=

s I'm
risking my CPU?)
=20
So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I need t=

o
revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB CPU? It does =

run
133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and have the PCI back in =

spec.
I realise that there isn't a very good chance of me getting it to run a=

t
that speed (especially with no vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem t=

o be
a good bit of silicon, I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you
understand.


Unlikely you're going to get there, especially without a Vcore increase, =

but who knows? It's already doing better than average to be stable at 1.6=
=20
Gig at stock Vcore.

=20
Can it be easilly done?


Unfortunately, no. The bus select pins are pulled high on the motherboard=
=20
with pull downs on the processor to select which speed it wants and to ge=
t=20
133MHz as the 'requested' FSB you need to break the pull-down on BSEL1=20
(AJ31) so that it goes high (on the VRM side). The obvious way is to brea=
k=20
the pin, but that isn't replaceable (for most mere mortals anyway). The=20
alternate is to insulate it somehow.

Vcore, btw, can be increased by jumpering processor pins to Vss. You don'=
t=20
have the choice of just any voltage because you can't make a pin go 'high=
'=20
with that method but, with a 1.5 volt default Vcore, you can get 1.55, 1.=
6=20
and 1.65. The next higher jump, by only jumpering to Vss, is to 1.9.

The really ambitious have been known to break the motherboard traces to t=
he=20
socket and wire in their own DIP switches for the VID and FSB signals to =

make both adjustable.

This is my second machine, mainly used for SETI
(BOINC actually) and a bit of 'muling' in multiplayer Diablo2 games.
=20
I have seen a web page with other people's OCs on it, some overclocking=


site. Does anyone have the URL? I'd be interested to see how far others=

have
managed to push their Tui Cellys.
=20
Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks doe=

s it
get with CPUMark99 on a BX?
=20
Thanks in advance for the replies folks.
--
~misfit~
=20
=20


  #3  
Old July 20th 04, 01:41 AM
)-()-(
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



~misfit~ wrote:


So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I need to
revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB CPU? It does run
133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and have the PCI back in spec.
I realise that there isn't a very good chance of me getting it to run at
that speed (especially with no vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem to be
a good bit of silicon, I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you
understand.

Can it be easilly done? This is my second machine, mainly used for SETI
(BOINC actually) and a bit of 'muling' in multiplayer Diablo2 games.

I have seen a web page with other people's OCs on it, some overclocking
site. Does anyone have the URL? I'd be interested to see how far others have
managed to push their Tui Cellys.

Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks does it
get with CPUMark99 on a BX?

Thanks in advance for the replies folks.
--
~misfit~


Put some of your clear nail polish ;-) on 'Bsel 1' pin or
use the insulation off an IDE cable to electrically isolate the pin.


I cut mine on my 1.0A after I was 100% sure it would
run at 133fsb.





  #4  
Old July 20th 04, 03:21 AM
P2B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



David Maynard wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:

I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L integrated
mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between 66/100/133, or
switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get the default FSB
speed
from the CPU and it then allows you a certain overclock (in BIOS) from
there, in pre-determined steps unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a
time.
Well, my 1.3 is running 24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for
1.612Ghz. I'm
pleased with that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with a
Barton and stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct
contact with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however
this
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5, ranging
between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly 1.4Ghz in this
board
last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran fine though, however I
didn't
try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both have 1.5v written on them)



I've noticed odd Vcore values with tualatins on non-tualatin
motherboards as well but it's not a problem here as I always have
something else setting it.


IME Tualatins don't respond to Vcore increases anyway - at least not on
BX boards. Every Tually I've tested tops out at around 1650Mhz, and
won't go any further even if you increase Vcore to dangerous levels.
OTOH, most of my Tuallies will do over 1600 at 1.35v, and would probably
go even lower except Vcore tends to exhibit increasing ripple below 1.4v
on BX boards.

The tualatins using an open drain FET to set the Vcore identification
pins whereas the earlier celerons used straight wire shorts to ground.
And the specs for earlier tualatins specify the motherboard pull up to
be 10K, or more, while the tualatin says 1K. I could imagine that the
10K "or more" pull-up on the non tualatin motherboards is not always
sufficient to drive the pin high when it's not being pulled low by the
on-board FET.

Which would be a great theory except for not explaining why yours seem
to be 'high' instead of low, as that theory would expect. Unless the
on-die FET pull downs depend on some Vss pin that's 'unused' on earlier
motherboards.

Whatever the reason, I've seen it too.


Now, 1.61Ghz is pretty damn good I figure. (Even though it's a dreaded
Via
chipset board I get 107 marks with CPUMark99, up from 84.9 at 100Mhz
FSB).
From what I can tell I can't monitor die-temp with this board. However
socket temp sits at around 29C, case temp 19C, crunching SETI
full-time,
about the same as the 1.4 did using it's stock HSF. It's winter here.

I'm never satisfied with an OC until I've reached the point where I get
errors in Prime, then backed off to my last stable setting. I can't do
that
with this set up as-is. Also the PCI bus is 41Mhz, a setting I'm not
exactly
comfortable with although all seems fine. The only card I have in it
is an
Adaptec AHA-2940-AU for my old scanner and it's always been a
forgiving card
bus-speed-wise, everything else is on-board. (I haven't tried my
scanner at
this speed though). The HDD is an old 8.4GB Fujitsu. The board
actually has
three bulging capacitors, with two of them leaking a little on top. I
have
replacements ordered and they should be here in a few days. I was
going to
replace them as soon as they arrived, however, with it running this
well I
might just leave them as they are until I *have* to replace them
(unless I'm
risking my CPU?)

So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I need to
revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB CPU? It does
run
133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and have the PCI back in
spec.
I realise that there isn't a very good chance of me getting it to run at
that speed (especially with no vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem
to be
a good bit of silicon, I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you
understand.



Unlikely you're going to get there, especially without a Vcore increase,
but who knows? It's already doing better than average to be stable at
1.6 Gig at stock Vcore.


Can it be easilly done?



Unfortunately, no. The bus select pins are pulled high on the
motherboard with pull downs on the processor to select which speed it
wants and to get 133MHz as the 'requested' FSB you need to break the
pull-down on BSEL1 (AJ31) so that it goes high (on the VRM side). The
obvious way is to break the pin, but that isn't replaceable (for most
mere mortals anyway). The alternate is to insulate it somehow.

Vcore, btw, can be increased by jumpering processor pins to Vss. You
don't have the choice of just any voltage because you can't make a pin
go 'high' with that method but, with a 1.5 volt default Vcore, you can
get 1.55, 1.6 and 1.65. The next higher jump, by only jumpering to Vss,
is to 1.9.

The really ambitious have been known to break the motherboard traces to
the socket and wire in their own DIP switches for the VID and FSB
signals to make both adjustable.


That's why I prefer Slot-1 BX boards for Tualatins - the adapter gives
you adjustable VID and FSB without resorting to 'ambitious' modifications.

This is my second machine, mainly used for SETI
(BOINC actually) and a bit of 'muling' in multiplayer Diablo2 games.

I have seen a web page with other people's OCs on it, some overclocking
site. Does anyone have the URL? I'd be interested to see how far
others have
managed to push their Tui Cellys.

Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks
does it
get with CPUMark99 on a BX?

Thanks in advance for the replies folks.
--
~misfit~




  #5  
Old July 20th 04, 03:23 AM
~misfit~
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Maynard wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:

I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L
integrated mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between
66/100/133, or switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get
the default FSB speed from the CPU and it then allows you a certain
overclock (in BIOS) from there, in pre-determined steps
unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a time. Well, my 1.3 is running
24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for 1.612Ghz. I'm pleased with
that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with a Barton and
stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct contact
with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however this
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5,
ranging between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly
1.4Ghz in this board last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran
fine though, however I didn't try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both
have 1.5v written on them)


I've noticed odd Vcore values with tualatins on non-tualatin
motherboards
as well but it's not a problem here as I always have something else
setting it.


It's a strange mobo. The manual claims it supports "all new Pentium III
processors (FC-PGA & FC-PGA2 package) and Celeron processors in FC-PGA
package. Supports 66/100/133Mhz system bus"

Note it doesn't say anything about FC-PGA2 (Tualatin) Celerons. However it
is running the last BIOS release (F8).

The tualatins using an open drain FET to set the Vcore identification
pins whereas the earlier celerons used straight wire shorts to
ground. And the specs for earlier tualatins specify the motherboard
pull up to be 10K, or more, while the tualatin says 1K. I could
imagine that the 10K "or more" pull-up on the non tualatin
motherboards is not always sufficient to drive the pin high when it's
not being pulled low by the on-board FET.

Which would be a great theory except for not explaining why yours
seem to
be 'high' instead of low, as that theory would expect. Unless the
on-die
FET pull downs depend on some Vss pin that's 'unused' on earlier
motherboards.

Whatever the reason, I've seen it too.


Thanks for the explaination.

Now, 1.61Ghz is pretty damn good I figure. (Even though it's a
dreaded Via chipset board I get 107 marks with CPUMark99, up from
84.9 at 100Mhz FSB). From what I can tell I can't monitor die-temp
with this board. However socket temp sits at around 29C, case temp
19C, crunching SETI full-time, about the same as the 1.4 did using
it's stock HSF. It's winter here.

I'm never satisfied with an OC until I've reached the point where I
get errors in Prime, then backed off to my last stable setting. I
can't do that with this set up as-is. Also the PCI bus is 41Mhz, a
setting I'm not exactly comfortable with although all seems fine.
The only card I have in it is an Adaptec AHA-2940-AU for my old
scanner and it's always been a forgiving card bus-speed-wise,
everything else is on-board. (I haven't tried my scanner at this
speed though). The HDD is an old 8.4GB Fujitsu. The board actually
has three bulging capacitors, with two of them leaking a little on
top. I have replacements ordered and they should be here in a few
days. I was going to replace them as soon as they arrived, however,
with it running this well I might just leave them as they are until
I *have* to replace them (unless I'm risking my CPU?)

So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I
need to revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB
CPU? It does run 133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and
have the PCI back in spec. I realise that there isn't a very good
chance of me getting it to run at that speed (especially with no
vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem to be a good bit of silicon,
I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you understand.


Unlikely you're going to get there, especially without a Vcore
increase,
but who knows? It's already doing better than average to be stable at
1.6
Gig at stock Vcore.


I figured that but it doesn't hurt to try, or ask opinions. :-)

Can it be easilly done?


Unfortunately, no. The bus select pins are pulled high on the
motherboard with pull downs on the processor to select which speed it
wants and to get 133MHz as the 'requested' FSB you need to break the
pull-down on BSEL1 (AJ31) so that it goes high (on the VRM side). The
obvious way is to break the pin, but that isn't replaceable (for most
mere mortals anyway). The alternate is to insulate it somehow.


I have re-soldered a pin back on a Coppermine Celeron once, still have the
CPU, still going strong and it's been in and out of sockets a few times.
However, that was an 'outside' pin, I doubt I could do it with a pin in the
middle of a bunch of other pins.

Vcore, btw, can be increased by jumpering processor pins to Vss. You
don't have the choice of just any voltage because you can't make a
pin go 'high' with that method but, with a 1.5 volt default Vcore,
you can get 1.55, 1.6 and 1.65. The next higher jump, by only
jumpering to Vss, is to 1.9.

The really ambitious have been known to break the motherboard traces
to the socket and wire in their own DIP switches for the VID and FSB
signals to
make both adjustable.


Heh, more than I'm prepared to do at this stage.

Thanks David, I'll probably leave it as it is. I'm just running Prime95 on
it again. I tested it for five hours before and it was fine. However, it
seems to have gone through a lot more SETI/BOINC units than it should have
since I last checked the status so I'm wondering if it's tripping up
somewhere. Unfortunately with BOINC I don't seem to be able to find a log
like I had with SETISpy to allow me to look back over WU history, once it's
communicated with the server it clears the 'WU done' tab on the client.

Cheers,
--
~misfit~


  #6  
Old July 20th 04, 03:26 AM
~misfit~
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

)-()-( wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:


So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I
need to revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB
CPU? It does run 133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and
have the PCI back in spec. I realise that there isn't a very good
chance of me getting it to run at that speed (especially with no
vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem to be a good bit of silicon,
I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you understand.

Can it be easilly done? This is my second machine, mainly used for
SETI (BOINC actually) and a bit of 'muling' in multiplayer Diablo2
games.

I have seen a web page with other people's OCs on it, some
overclocking site. Does anyone have the URL? I'd be interested to
see how far others have managed to push their Tui Cellys.

Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks
does it get with CPUMark99 on a BX?

Thanks in advance for the replies folks.
--
~misfit~


Put some of your clear nail polish ;-) on 'Bsel 1' pin or
use the insulation off an IDE cable to electrically isolate the pin.


I only wear black nail polish. ;-)

I cut mine on my 1.0A after I was 100% sure it would
run at 133fsb.


Thanks. However, I think I've reached it's limits. (See my reply to David
SETI results). It's a big ask to get a Tualatin to go as high as
1.73Ghz, probably unrealistic.

Cheers,
--
~misfit~


  #7  
Old July 20th 04, 06:55 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

~misfit~ wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

~misfit~ wrote:


I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L
integrated mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between
66/100/133, or switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get
the default FSB speed from the CPU and it then allows you a certain
overclock (in BIOS) from there, in pre-determined steps
unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a time. Well, my 1.3 is running
24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for 1.612Ghz. I'm pleased with
that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with a Barton and
stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct contact
with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however this
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5,
ranging between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly
1.4Ghz in this board last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran
fine though, however I didn't try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both
have 1.5v written on them)


I've noticed odd Vcore values with tualatins on non-tualatin
motherboards
as well but it's not a problem here as I always have something else
setting it.



It's a strange mobo. The manual claims it supports "all new Pentium III
processors (FC-PGA & FC-PGA2 package) and Celeron processors in FC-PGA
package. Supports 66/100/133Mhz system bus"

Note it doesn't say anything about FC-PGA2 (Tualatin) Celerons. However it
is running the last BIOS release (F8).


The tualatins using an open drain FET to set the Vcore identification
pins whereas the earlier celerons used straight wire shorts to
ground. And the specs for earlier tualatins specify the motherboard
pull up to be 10K, or more, while the tualatin says 1K. I could
imagine that the 10K "or more" pull-up on the non tualatin
motherboards is not always sufficient to drive the pin high when it's
not being pulled low by the on-board FET.

Which would be a great theory except for not explaining why yours
seem to
be 'high' instead of low, as that theory would expect. Unless the
on-die
FET pull downs depend on some Vss pin that's 'unused' on earlier
motherboards.

Whatever the reason, I've seen it too.



Thanks for the explaination.


Well, since yours says it's made for tualatins that pretty much shoots both
theories to hell, don't it? LOL



  #8  
Old July 20th 04, 06:59 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

P2B wrote:

=20
=20
David Maynard wrote:
=20
~misfit~ wrote:

I'm running a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz in a Gigabyte GA-6VEM-L integra=

ted
mobo. It doesn't have BOIS setting to change between 66/100/133, or
switches/jumpers from what I can see. It seems to get the default FSB=

=20
speed
from the CPU and it then allows you a certain overclock (in BIOS) fro=

m
there, in pre-determined steps unfortunately, I can't go one Mhz at a=

=20
time.
Well, my 1.3 is running 24/7, Prime95-stable at 124Mhz FSB for=20
1.612Ghz. I'm
pleased with that, it has a copper-bottomed HSF on it that came with =

a
Barton and stays cool, Also I removed the IHS so the die is in direct=


contact with the HS. There is no way in BIOS to adjust vcore, however=

=20
this
CPU has always ran a little high, 1.53 average according to MBM5,=20
ranging
between 1.51v and 1.54v. (Strange because I had a Celly 1.4Ghz in=20
this board
last week and it only ran at 1.35vcore. It ran fine though, however I=

=20
didn't
try to OC it at that low a vcore. Both have 1.5v written on them)




I've noticed odd Vcore values with tualatins on non-tualatin=20
motherboards as well but it's not a problem here as I always have=20
something else setting it.

=20
=20
IME Tualatins don't respond to Vcore increases anyway - at least not on=

=20
BX boards. Every Tually I've tested tops out at around 1650Mhz, and=20
won't go any further even if you increase Vcore to dangerous levels.=20
OTOH, most of my Tuallies will do over 1600 at 1.35v, and would probabl=

y=20
go even lower except Vcore tends to exhibit increasing ripple below 1.4=

v=20
on BX boards.
=20
The tualatins using an open drain FET to set the Vcore identification =


pins whereas the earlier celerons used straight wire shorts to ground.=

=20
And the specs for earlier tualatins specify the motherboard pull up to=

=20
be 10K, or more, while the tualatin says 1K. I could imagine that the =


10K "or more" pull-up on the non tualatin motherboards is not always=20
sufficient to drive the pin high when it's not being pulled low by the=

=20
on-board FET.

Which would be a great theory except for not explaining why yours seem=

=20
to be 'high' instead of low, as that theory would expect. Unless the=20
on-die FET pull downs depend on some Vss pin that's 'unused' on=20
earlier motherboards.

Whatever the reason, I've seen it too.


Now, 1.61Ghz is pretty damn good I figure. (Even though it's a=20
dreaded Via
chipset board I get 107 marks with CPUMark99, up from 84.9 at 100Mhz =


FSB).
From what I can tell I can't monitor die-temp with this board. Howeve=

r
socket temp sits at around 29=B0C, case temp 19=B0C, crunching SETI=20
full-time,
about the same as the 1.4 did using it's stock HSF. It's winter here.=



I'm never satisfied with an OC until I've reached the point where I g=

et
errors in Prime, then backed off to my last stable setting. I can't=20
do that
with this set up as-is. Also the PCI bus is 41Mhz, a setting I'm not =


exactly
comfortable with although all seems fine. The only card I have in it =


is an
Adaptec AHA-2940-AU for my old scanner and it's always been a=20
forgiving card
bus-speed-wise, everything else is on-board. (I haven't tried my=20
scanner at
this speed though). The HDD is an old 8.4GB Fujitsu. The board=20
actually has
three bulging capacitors, with two of them leaking a little on top. I=

=20
have
replacements ordered and they should be here in a few days. I was=20
going to
replace them as soon as they arrived, however, with it running this=20
well I
might just leave them as they are until I *have* to replace them=20
(unless I'm
risking my CPU?)

So, the question: Can I easilly (and non-destructively in case I need=

to
revert back) fool my mobo into thinking it's a 133Mhz FSB CPU? It=20
does run
133FSB CPUs. That way I could try for 1.73Ghz and have the PCI back=20
in spec.
I realise that there isn't a very good chance of me getting it to run=

at
that speed (especially with no vcore adjustment) but this *does* seem=

=20
to be
a good bit of silicon, I'd hate to not try it. I'm sure most of you
understand.




Unlikely you're going to get there, especially without a Vcore=20
increase, but who knows? It's already doing better than average to be =


stable at 1.6 Gig at stock Vcore.


Can it be easilly done?




Unfortunately, no. The bus select pins are pulled high on the=20
motherboard with pull downs on the processor to select which speed it =


wants and to get 133MHz as the 'requested' FSB you need to break the=20
pull-down on BSEL1 (AJ31) so that it goes high (on the VRM side). The =


obvious way is to break the pin, but that isn't replaceable (for most =


mere mortals anyway). The alternate is to insulate it somehow.

Vcore, btw, can be increased by jumpering processor pins to Vss. You=20
don't have the choice of just any voltage because you can't make a pin=

=20
go 'high' with that method but, with a 1.5 volt default Vcore, you can=

=20
get 1.55, 1.6 and 1.65. The next higher jump, by only jumpering to=20
Vss, is to 1.9.

The really ambitious have been known to break the motherboard traces=20
to the socket and wire in their own DIP switches for the VID and FSB=20
signals to make both adjustable.

=20
=20
That's why I prefer Slot-1 BX boards for Tualatins - the adapter gives =


you adjustable VID and FSB without resorting to 'ambitious' modificatio=

ns.

Yeah, unless you're using the 'super slocket III" (modified, of course).

Besides, I thought you pined for the 'old fashion' days of tape and solde=
r



  #9  
Old July 20th 04, 12:09 PM
~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
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P2B wrote:

IME Tualatins don't respond to Vcore increases anyway - at least not
on BX boards. Every Tually I've tested tops out at around 1650Mhz, and
won't go any further even if you increase Vcore to dangerous levels.
OTOH, most of my Tuallies will do over 1600 at 1.35v, and would
probably go even lower except Vcore tends to exhibit increasing
ripple below 1.4v on BX boards.


Thanks for the input, it's good to 'talk' with someone who has a bit of
experience with these things.

The really ambitious have been known to break the motherboard traces
to the socket and wire in their own DIP switches for the VID and FSB
signals to make both adjustable.


That's why I prefer Slot-1 BX boards for Tualatins - the adapter gives
you adjustable VID and FSB without resorting to 'ambitious'
modifications.


What adapter P2B? I like BX boards and have a couple here. However I think
that they need the odd capacitor replaced.
--
~misfit~


  #10  
Old July 20th 04, 01:29 PM
Spajky
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:52 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

Also, Spajky, what speed do you have your Tui at and how many marks does it
get with CPUMark99 on a BX?


[email protected],35G
I tested it with PCMark2002 & I get 3400 points ...
--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
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