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#41
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kony wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:14:12 -0700, Robert Heiling wrote: Yes that is possible. Install the CPU, video and memory for the time being. Then you think it will even run at all in spite of that speed conflict? That's my only real concern! I don't really care if it runs at 950Mhz or 1000Mhz, just so it will work. I didn't want to touch the new mb if it wasn't going to work and I had to return it. Mostly likely it will run at the correct frequency but merely not be able to make a positive ID on the CPU. It may correctly display the operational speed, or may display something *wrong*. For this reason it is necessary to confirm the speed with alternate methods as mentioned previously. It is least likely that it would run at 950 instead of 1000MHz. More like it would not POST at all, but the odds are it will. It is working, but with problems. It's all covered in my other response. I cannot guarantee it, but think it is worth trying. If there is a newer bios available you might want to update the bios, particularly if the board has a relatively early bios version. This may combat other bios issues in additon to CPU identification. I've done a lot of checking and it's pretty certain that my Bios is the latest. It was also updated on 06/21/2002, which is the same day as the Bios for a closely related board was also updated. "In general" such boards did support 1GHz CPU, within the limit of the [no support for 133FSB with non-'A' KT133] it was the issue you mentioned that they simply didn't have that speed yet when the spec for the board was produced- and with lesser board brands/support, they may not update their specs for it later, and sometimes won't even fully disclose the changes a particular bios incorporates if there's even a newer bios available. After flashing a bios, clear CMOS. When it posts, note what the board reports for CPU. If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133 (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the original post). The board came with the jumper set at 100 and I left it there. This one has a FSB jumper for 100/133. You may be thinking of 266 FSB which I've seen the KT133A supports in the later CT-7AIA5 version of this board per: http://www.zen26266.zen.co.uk/CT-7AIA5-page1.htm No, KT133 non-"A" does not actually support 133FSB. It does not matter if it has a jumper. Other non-supportive boards also had such a jumper. Via originally had intended to be able to get KT133 running up to 133FSB, but wasn't able to and shipped out the chips they had at the time. LATER they got 133FSB working right and this was the distinction of KT133A. Gotcha - Thanks - that makes it pretty clear. Install floppy drive and run memtest86 to confirm memory stability. I have the PC133 memory so it shouldn't be a problem. Not so easy to assume, the board itself can be an issue even when memory is spec'd higher, especially when a board looks up SPD info and finds a module spec'd for (as an example) CAS3 @ 133MHz but CAS2 @ 100MHz. In such cases there is the potential for it to still be running the memory at most aggressive CAS timing possible. Resolution if there were this kind of problem is obviously different memory, or manually setting a higher CAS #, or other things we need not delve into at this time. Hmmmm. Wondering now about that. Details in next message and the 512 memory was running fine on the old system Bob |
#42
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kony wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:09:45 -0700, Robert Heiling wrote: Here's one for $40, there may be others if you look around the 'net. http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.a...mID=2485&Res=2 I"m not claiming it's a great board, but rather I have no experience with it and generally avoid Chaintech. Even so, $40 less with option to return it if it doesn't work right seems a worthwhile risk. and yet another question! As mentioned in another post, I ordered the Chaintech board above that you found at TargetPC, it has arrived, and I've got everything apart and am ready to drop the cpu & memory into the new board and install it. However, before I do ..... The new board is the CT-7AIA and has a KT133 (note: not a KT133A) chipset and Socket A. Its included manual says: "Supports AMD Socket A processors up to 950MHz". My cpu is 1000Mhz (1GHz and I read on another review site of a different board that: "As with any other Socket A based board, the issue of CPU multiplier selection is locked after by the CPU itself with an internally locked multiplier."). I've been so used to seeing the websites give Socket A claims of up to 1.2GHz & 1.5GHz that I didn't realize that the TargetPC site didn't mention cpu speed at all. In fact, my old board, which is also KT133 claims support for 500MHz to 1GHz. Is it possibly the case that 950MHz was the fastest Athlon out at the time they wrote that manual and that it will actually support 1GHz? or am I in trouble? Yes that is possible. Install the CPU, video and memory for the time being. When it posts, note what the board reports for CPU. The mb with CPU & memory were installed and then the AGP video. Floppy and CD-ROM drives connected. Booting shows (abbreviated): Award Modular Bios v6.00PG 06/21/2002 Main Processor: AMD Athlon 1333MHz (s/b 1000Mhz) Memory Testing: 524288K (no problems) Floppy Disks(s) Fail (40) (note: connections all ok) Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter Setup 06/21/2002-8363-686-IA6LMC5CC-00 pause F1 cr Verifying DMI Pool Data Then it boots into my Knoppix v3.4 CD and shows the splash screen. Attempted continuation fails in the Linux loading process (blanked screen and no CD activity), but Memtest on that same CD gives: Memtest-86 v3.0 AMD Athlon 1335MHz L1 cache 128K 8193MB/s L2 cache 256K 2510MB/s Memory 512M 324 MB/s Chipset vt8363 etc If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133 (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the original post). Not sure what to do there. What was kept from the old system was Athlon 1GHz CPU and 512MB PC-133 memory and ATI-Radeon AGP card + case & power supply from the old PC Chips M805LR mATX system. Install floppy drive and run memtest86 to confirm memory stability. Memtest86 will display the CPU frequency too even if the BIOS POST screen misidentifies the CPU. Trust memtest86's report over the BIOS report, BUT also you can later run a windows CPU ID tool to confirm operational frequency. For example, "WCPUID" would tell you, as would "CPU-Z", http://www.cpuid.org/download/cpu-z-129.zip It's all quite flaky. Instead of going into Memtest it sometimes gives "unexpected interrupt - halting". In one case, Memtest was going well and then started to fail. In most every other case. it has been failing on every memory address. I'm holding off on trying another 128MB stick, which is probably good, at the moment as the fault may not be with memory itself? Bob |
#43
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Robert Heiling wrote:
snip I'm holding off on trying another 128MB stick, which is probably good, at the moment as the fault may not be with memory itself? Just a quick note that I swapped out the memory (512 out, 128 in) and tried again. This time it was actually booting into Knoppix Linux and I let it go a bit, but not all the way as I thought I would be able to do it again. I killed it to try something else and haven't gotten Linux to load that far again. Bob |
#44
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:19:30 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote: The mb with CPU & memory were installed and then the AGP video. Floppy and CD-ROM drives connected. Booting shows (abbreviated): Award Modular Bios v6.00PG 06/21/2002 Main Processor: AMD Athlon 1333MHz (s/b 1000Mhz) Memory Testing: 524288K (no problems) Floppy Disks(s) Fail (40) (note: connections all ok) Does this mean floppies weren't working? Hold off on troubleshooting this though, because of the overclocked-CPU potential I'll comment on below. Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter Setup 06/21/2002-8363-686-IA6LMC5CC-00 pause F1 cr Verifying DMI Pool Data Then it boots into my Knoppix v3.4 CD and shows the splash screen. Attempted continuation fails in the Linux loading process (blanked screen and no CD activity), but Memtest on that same CD gives: Memtest-86 v3.0 AMD Athlon 1335MHz L1 cache 128K 8193MB/s L2 cache 256K 2510MB/s Memory 512M 324 MB/s Chipset vt8363 etc It's a 1GHz CPU, yes? I'm surprised that it even POSTs at 1.3GHz, at stock voltage. You are certain the 100MHz FSB jumper is set to 100MHz? If so, try clearing CMOS. If it still appears to be at 1.3GHz, check the bios menus for a 2nd FSB setting in addition to the jumper. Chaintech should NOT have allowed that board to ever default to 133FSB no matter what CPU was installed, since it uses KT133 instead of KT133A. What "probably" happened is that they reused same bios for their next-gen (or later revision of same board) that DID have a KT133A chipset and so did support 133FSB CPUs. If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133 (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the original post). Not sure what to do there. What was kept from the old system was Athlon 1GHz CPU and 512MB PC-133 memory and ATI-Radeon AGP card + case & power supply from the old PC Chips M805LR mATX system. Making sure the FSB is correct is a manditory first step. Myriad other false-errors may be reported while the CPU is so overclocked (at stock voltage, though maybe either way). Install floppy drive and run memtest86 to confirm memory stability. Memtest86 will display the CPU frequency too even if the BIOS POST screen misidentifies the CPU. Trust memtest86's report over the BIOS report, BUT also you can later run a windows CPU ID tool to confirm operational frequency. For example, "WCPUID" would tell you, as would "CPU-Z", http://www.cpuid.org/download/cpu-z-129.zip It's all quite flaky. Instead of going into Memtest it sometimes gives "unexpected interrupt - halting". In one case, Memtest was going well and then started to fail. In most every other case. it has been failing on every memory address. I'm holding off on trying another 128MB stick, which is probably good, at the moment as the fault may not be with memory itself? Ignore memory errors for the time being and only use memtest to check CPU speed, till it reports that at correct 100FSB. Look around for jumpers for memory too, perhaps one for memory at 100MHz or at 133MHz- and set it to 100MHz for the time being, perhaps permanently. Again there may be a bios (menued) setting for this even with a jumper. |
#45
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kony wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:19:30 -0700, Robert Heiling wrote: The mb with CPU & memory were installed and then the AGP video. Floppy and CD-ROM drives connected. Booting shows (abbreviated): Award Modular Bios v6.00PG 06/21/2002 Main Processor: AMD Athlon 1333MHz (s/b 1000Mhz) Memory Testing: 524288K (no problems) Floppy Disks(s) Fail (40) (note: connections all ok) Does this mean floppies weren't working? It shows in POST and in Bios, but won't boot a bootable floppy like my Memtest-86 or Win98 for example. Hold off on troubleshooting this though, because of the overclocked-CPU potential I'll comment on below. Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter Setup 06/21/2002-8363-686-IA6LMC5CC-00 pause F1 cr Verifying DMI Pool Data Then it boots into my Knoppix v3.4 CD and shows the splash screen. Attempted continuation fails in the Linux loading process (blanked screen and no CD activity), but Memtest on that same CD gives: Memtest-86 v3.0 AMD Athlon 1335MHz L1 cache 128K 8193MB/s L2 cache 256K 2510MB/s Memory 512M 324 MB/s Chipset vt8363 etc It's a 1GHz CPU, yes? Yes I'm surprised that it even POSTs at 1.3GHz, at stock voltage. I'd have thought that it would run very hot, but it's been running only about 51C even right after Memtest and the hottest I've seen is 53C. You are certain the 100MHz FSB jumper is set to 100MHz? You aren't going to believe this. It has a standard 3 pins for a 2-position jumper with the left 2 pins being jumpered from the factory or from? Facing the print & jump on the board it says: 1-2 cpu 100MHz 2-3 cpu 133MHz I believed them and I don't know why I didn't try this before, but they're lying. I moved the jumper to 2-3 and the cpu now posts as 1000MHz and Memtest-86 shows it as 1002MHz. It's running successful memtests as I write. If so, try clearing CMOS. If it still appears to be at 1.3GHz, check the bios menus for a 2nd FSB setting in addition to the jumper. Chaintech should NOT have allowed that board to ever default to 133FSB no matter what CPU was installed, since it uses KT133 instead of KT133A. What "probably" happened is that they reused same bios for their next-gen (or later revision of same board) that DID have a KT133A chipset and so did support 133FSB CPUs. That's really some mistake they made with those jumpers! The manual page doesn't even look like it. "CPU Bus Frequency (SW4) This switch allows you to select between 100MHz FSB or 133MHz FSB frequency speed (then a chart, formatting may be off) SW4 1 2 3 4 100MHz off on off off 133MHz off off off off So we can see that they were a bit confusedvbg If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133 (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the original post). Not sure what to do there. What was kept from the old system was Athlon 1GHz CPU and 512MB PC-133 memory and ATI-Radeon AGP card + case & power supply from the old PC Chips M805LR mATX system. Making sure the FSB is correct is a manditory first step. Myriad other false-errors may be reported while the CPU is so overclocked (at stock voltage, though maybe either way). Install floppy drive and run memtest86 to confirm memory stability. Memtest86 will display the CPU frequency too even if the BIOS POST screen misidentifies the CPU. Trust memtest86's report over the BIOS report, BUT also you can later run a windows CPU ID tool to confirm operational frequency. For example, "WCPUID" would tell you, as would "CPU-Z", http://www.cpuid.org/download/cpu-z-129.zip It's all quite flaky. Instead of going into Memtest it sometimes gives "unexpected interrupt - halting". In one case, Memtest was going well and then started to fail. In most every other case. it has been failing on every memory address. I'm holding off on trying another 128MB stick, which is probably good, at the moment as the fault may not be with memory itself? Ignore memory errors for the time being and only use memtest to check CPU speed, till it reports that at correct 100FSB. Look around for jumpers for memory too, perhaps one for memory at 100MHz or at 133MHz- and set it to 100MHz for the time being, perhaps permanently. Again there may be a bios (menued) setting for this even with a jumper. It's looking good now! Thanks as always for the great help! It's running Knoppix now which all loaded off the Primary IDE so that's probably ok & ready for a HD. I was chasing that floppy error message, but the only advice I've found so far was to check connections or replace the drivelol. That may also be a Bios setting that didn't work right when it was overclocked and will now. That needs some experimenting. I also need to buy an ethernet card. The old board has a small pcb card with the RJ-45 jack for the rear and a small ribbon cable with plug onto the motherboard. This board has no place to plug it, so I'll pop the five bucks for a pci ethernet card. :-) Thanks again! Bob |
#46
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:53:32 -0700, Robert Heiling
wrote: I'm surprised that it even POSTs at 1.3GHz, at stock voltage. I'd have thought that it would run very hot, but it's been running only about 51C even right after Memtest and the hottest I've seen is 53C. It has the in-socket-well thermal sensor though, which was probably calibrated for lesser CPUs. It would then tend to read temps a little low IF it had previously read correctly. Even so, temp is mostly a function of heatsink interface and it's overall efficiency. Raising clock speed without voltage increase would raise temps much either. You are certain the 100MHz FSB jumper is set to 100MHz? You aren't going to believe this. It has a standard 3 pins for a 2-position jumper with the left 2 pins being jumpered from the factory or from? Facing the print & jump on the board it says: 1-2 cpu 100MHz 2-3 cpu 133MHz I believed them and I don't know why I didn't try this before, but they're lying. I moved the jumper to 2-3 and the cpu now posts as 1000MHz and Memtest-86 shows it as 1002MHz. It's running successful memtests as I write. Good, looks like you solved the larger part, but is the floppy still a problem? Perhaps a bios setting needs changed or the cable is backwards at the board? If/when you boot to the OS, see if the floppy works then. That's really some mistake they made with those jumpers! The manual page doesn't even look like it. "CPU Bus Frequency (SW4) This switch allows you to select between 100MHz FSB or 133MHz FSB frequency speed (then a chart, formatting may be off) SW4 1 2 3 4 100MHz off on off off 133MHz off off off off So we can see that they were a bit confusedvbg Yep, sometimes those lower-end boards cut a lot of corners, or make changes and then the relevant docs aren't updated to reflect the changes. |
#47
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kony wrote:
Good, looks like you solved the larger part, but is the floppy still a problem? Perhaps a bios setting needs changed or the cable is backwards at the board? If/when you boot to the OS, see if the floppy works then. I fixed it a while ago and it was something I've done in the past a couple of times when moving cables around and had forgotten about. ;-) Tomorrow I'll buy & install a 10/100 pci card, move her HD back from this machine I use to that one, hassle with drivers again, then haul it back upstairs to its cat-5 plug. monitor et al. The way I look at it is that for ~$50, I've basically salvaged some memory that I recently paid $75 for, plus the value of the other memory & cpu that was all headed for the dumpster, and wound up with a 1GHz Athlon with 640MB memory that will keep someone pretty happy for the comparatively minor amount of usage it will get. Not an impressive machine, but a very usable one. Thanks very much for the help you contributed! Bob |
#48
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kony wrote:
It's a 1GHz CPU, yes? I'm surprised that it even POSTs at 1.3GHz, at stock voltage. You are certain the 100MHz FSB jumper is set to 100MHz? If so, try clearing CMOS. If it still appears to be at 1.3GHz, check the bios menus for a 2nd FSB setting in addition to the jumper. Chaintech should NOT have allowed that board to ever default to 133FSB no matter what CPU was installed, since it uses KT133 instead of KT133A. What "probably" happened is that they reused same bios for their next-gen (or later revision of same board) that DID have a KT133A chipset and so did support 133FSB CPUs. If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133 (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the original post). Discovered this & thought I'd pass it on fwiw as it explains something confusing that was happening to us. The Athlon machine has been humming along since yesterday, in fact I'm posting this from it. Once I had it running solidly and on our network, I pulled over a copy of the CPU-Z that you had alerted me too. It reports (partial) AMD Athlon Thunderbird Core Speed:1002.3 MHz and significantly: Chipset VIA KT133A Rev 03 !!! So even though the various web writeups for the CT-7AIA mb said it had KT133 and the dealer's website said it had KT133 and the manual says it has KT133, this particular board actually has KT133A which would explain the unexpected 133 speed capability. Bob |
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