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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
On 2007-06-02, johannes wrote:
Isn't that just dumping the problem onto someone else? Unless of course the TV is described on ebay exactly is it is, detailing the poor picture quality attached with a sample of the picture to show which (lack of) quality the buyer will get. Yup, You dont have to be economical with the truth to make a sale. I bought a liteon DVD writer which I thought was too noisy, but some people think its OK. So rather than enter a questionable return I stuck it on ebay saying that its noisy, and only ended up a few quid down. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=130118289340 Main thing is IMO to use BuyItNow (get better prices) a 10 day duration (because you dont expect too many takers due to your honesty) and just be patient. CD Freaks and eBuyer customer comments seemed to indicate some of these writers are noisy and some aren't. I got another one from SVP which was noisy also, but they collected it under their no quibble warranty. Now I'm back to NEC/Pioneer. Lordy |
#12
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
wrote in message oups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? Best wishes, News Reader |
#13
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
News Reader wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue |
#14
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote:
News Reader wrote: wrote in message roups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue An update from the OP.... 1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath. 2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as "reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a "tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre) 3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment. I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have often bought products this way and been happy with the results. 4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period) see their returns policy he- http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. 6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No prizes for guessing which review is mine http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.aspx?Quicklinx=4K11 (Oh and this weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid Dabs! That's eBay for you) |
#15
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
wrote in message oups.com... On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote: News Reader wrote: wrote in message roups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue An update from the OP.... 1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath. 2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as "reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a "tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre) 3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment. I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have often bought products this way and been happy with the results. 4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period) see their returns policy he- http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. 6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No prizes for guessing which review is mine http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.aspx?Quicklinx=4K11 (Oh and this weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid Dabs! That's eBay for you) Hi, Pleased to hear things have gone well. From the DTI website on the DSR: "The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods or services, as they would have when buying in a shop." I also thought and my personal opinion was that a customer can generally request: - to see a unit demonstrated (either an existing demonstration unit or one "opened" or otherwise found for this purpose) - to require or request the right of inspection of a unit before purchase. I.e. Having essentially agreed to purchase a unit, when they bring it "out from the back" you can insist upon checking it (i.e. to make sure all parts are present and correct as well as everything appearing satisfactory - e.g. confirm that it is not an obviously damaged unit). Neither of these scenarios are uncommon, for example a lead or manual missing, or equally to find you have in the wonderful box an either imperfect of damaged unit (e.g. poor plastic moulding, etc., etc.) or one that is in fact not electrically or mechanically functional (I think on this later point that might be asking a bit too much and you can evidently return it if it fails in that regard as it can evidently fall for rejection as faulty). Hence, with the DSR meaning to replicate the same, as painful as it may seem or be to online retailers et. al., and perhaps seem to consumers overly generous to themselves, it would seem that within reason and due care and attention by the customer, one can expect to be able to replicate the above performance at home and then determine satisfaction, etc. Clearly, if you use it in a "normal" way, i.e. install it, use it without much care or consideration and use it whilst eating your take away, having a party, etc., etc. then you have not honoured the spirit of the legislation. Hence, I would only expect the above to mean whilst treating the device with the care and attention a trained member of shop staff would when opening and inspecting a (brand new sealed) unit. In other words, if you can perform only an initial minimal necessary whilst keeping the item in as received condition (perhaps a clean room with white lint gloves might be going a bit further than necessary) inspection, such that when you return it to its packaging it is, within reason, as it came out, bar some minor rearrangement of the packaging, then that would seem correct, right and fair enough. I think for example with a DVD-RW where it may get scratched putting it into its mount, you may start to cross the line come meet a grey area, which retailers need to and should make clear (very easily found and clearly in large print presented terms) their interpretation of this aspect of the regulations or their chosen approach to it (and cut off point). It is just as easy to test a drive for example without performing a full, final and permanent installation mounting first.... Just a bit of a bummer if you assume, believe, think, what have you that it looks great, etc., reports are good, etc., that it can't possibly XYZ (be too loud, etc, etc.,) and keenly and enthusiastically install whatever it may be (obviously still conscientiously and carefully, etc. but still to leave some mark) only to discover some, for oneself, significant shortcoming... lol. Best wishes, News Reader |
#16
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
News Reader wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote: News Reader wrote: wrote in message legroups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue An update from the OP.... 1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath. 2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as "reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a "tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre) 3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment. I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have often bought products this way and been happy with the results. 4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period) see their returns policy he- http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. 6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No prizes for guessing which review is mine http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.aspx?Quicklinx=4K11 (Oh and this weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid Dabs! That's eBay for you) Hi, Pleased to hear things have gone well. From the DTI website on the DSR: "The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods or services, as they would have when buying in a shop." I also thought and my personal opinion was that a customer can generally request: - to see a unit demonstrated (either an existing demonstration unit or one "opened" or otherwise found for this purpose) - to require or request the right of inspection of a unit before purchase. I.e. Having essentially agreed to purchase a unit, when they bring it "out from the back" you can insist upon checking it (i.e. to make sure all parts are present and correct as well as everything appearing satisfactory - e.g. confirm that it is not an obviously damaged unit). Neither of these scenarios are uncommon, for example a lead or manual missing, or equally to find you have in the wonderful box an either imperfect of damaged unit (e.g. poor plastic moulding, etc., etc.) or one that is in fact not electrically or mechanically functional (I think on this later point that might be asking a bit too much and you can evidently return it if it fails in that regard as it can evidently fall for rejection as faulty). Hence, with the DSR meaning to replicate the same, as painful as it may seem or be to online retailers et. al., and perhaps seem to consumers overly generous to themselves, it would seem that within reason and due care and attention by the customer, one can expect to be able to replicate the above performance at home and then determine satisfaction, etc. Clearly, if you use it in a "normal" way, i.e. install it, use it without much care or consideration and use it whilst eating your take away, having a party, etc., etc. then you have not honoured the spirit of the legislation. Hence, I would only expect the above to mean whilst treating the device with the care and attention a trained member of shop staff would when opening and inspecting a (brand new sealed) unit. In other words, if you can perform only an initial minimal necessary whilst keeping the item in as received condition (perhaps a clean room with white lint gloves might be going a bit further than necessary) inspection, such that when you return it to its packaging it is, within reason, as it came out, bar some minor rearrangement of the packaging, then that would seem correct, right and fair enough. I think for example with a DVD-RW where it may get scratched putting it into its mount, you may start to cross the line come meet a grey area, which retailers need to and should make clear (very easily found and clearly in large print presented terms) their interpretation of this aspect of the regulations or their chosen approach to it (and cut off point). It is just as easy to test a drive for example without performing a full, final and permanent installation mounting first.... Just a bit of a bummer if you assume, believe, think, what have you that it looks great, etc., reports are good, etc., that it can't possibly XYZ (be too loud, etc, etc.,) and keenly and enthusiastically install whatever it may be (obviously still conscientiously and carefully, etc. but still to leave some mark) only to discover some, for oneself, significant shortcoming... lol. You have given your interpretation of the law, DABS gave (and U-turned on) theirs, the DTR has theirs, etc. Case law will ultimately provide another. Dabs seem to have initially applied their standard interpretation but then agreed with the OP that it shouldn't apply to his "refurbished goods". I don't think that this will alter in any way their treatment of purchasers of new goods. Which will remain, "If you use it, it's yours". -- Sue |
#17
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
"News Reader" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote: News Reader wrote: wrote in message roups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue An update from the OP.... 1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath. 2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as "reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a "tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre) 3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment. I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have often bought products this way and been happy with the results. 4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period) see their returns policy he- http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. 6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No prizes for guessing which review is mine http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.aspx?Quicklinx=4K11 (Oh and this weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid Dabs! That's eBay for you) Hi, Pleased to hear things have gone well. From the DTI website on the DSR: "The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods or services, as they would have when buying in a shop." I also thought and my personal opinion was that a customer can generally request: - to see a unit demonstrated (either an existing demonstration unit or one "opened" or otherwise found for this purpose) - to require or request the right of inspection of a unit before purchase. I.e. Having essentially agreed to purchase a unit, when they bring it "out from the back" you can insist upon checking it (i.e. to make sure all parts are present and correct as well as everything appearing satisfactory - e.g. confirm that it is not an obviously damaged unit). Neither of these scenarios are uncommon, for example a lead or manual missing, or equally to find you have in the wonderful box an either imperfect of damaged unit (e.g. poor plastic moulding, etc., etc.) or one that is in fact not electrically or mechanically functional (I think on this later point that might be asking a bit too much and you can evidently return it if it fails in that regard as it can evidently fall for rejection as faulty). Hence, with the DSR meaning to replicate the same, as painful as it may seem or be to online retailers et. al., and perhaps seem to consumers overly generous to themselves, it would seem that within reason and due care and attention by the customer, one can expect to be able to replicate the above performance at home and then determine satisfaction, etc. Clearly, if you use it in a "normal" way, i.e. install it, use it without much care or consideration and use it whilst eating your take away, having a party, etc., etc. then you have not honoured the spirit of the legislation. Hence, I would only expect the above to mean whilst treating the device with the care and attention a trained member of shop staff would when opening and inspecting a (brand new sealed) unit. In other words, if you can perform only an initial minimal necessary whilst keeping the item in as received condition (perhaps a clean room with white lint gloves might be going a bit further than necessary) inspection, such that when you return it to its packaging it is, within reason, as it came out, bar some minor rearrangement of the packaging, then that would seem correct, right and fair enough. I think for example with a DVD-RW where it may get scratched putting it into its mount, you may start to cross the line come meet a grey area, which retailers need to and should make clear (very easily found and clearly in large print presented terms) their interpretation of this aspect of the regulations or their chosen approach to it (and cut off point). It is just as easy to test a drive for example without performing a full, final and permanent installation mounting first.... Just a bit of a bummer if you assume, believe, think, what have you that it looks great, etc., reports are good, etc., that it can't possibly XYZ (be too loud, etc, etc.,) and keenly and enthusiastically install whatever it may be (obviously still conscientiously and carefully, etc. but still to leave some mark) only to discover some, for oneself, significant shortcoming... lol. Best wishes, News Reader We are into the days of sealed units in shrink wrap or even welded plastic There is no way you can try an item without damaging the package. So it no longer appears to be new and the retailer would have to reduce it to resell. That reduction should come out of you pocket not theirs. Examine does not meant try before you buy. Some dealers are very happy to take back the goods you have tried and supply items better suited to your needs. But some else has to get your goods. |
#18
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
On 5 Jun, 09:10, "Trev" trevbowdenAT.dsl.pipex.COM wrote:
"News Reader" wrote in message ... wrote in message roups.com... On 3 Jun, 23:58, Palindrome wrote: News Reader wrote: wrote in message roups.com... I am trying to return a reconditined TV bought from the DABS website. They are refusing to take it back on the grounds that it has been "opened & used" I am returning it because I am not happy with the picture quality and the being "reconditioned" the box was opened and the TV used anyway. They say "Unfortunately, because the part has been opened and installed/used we're unable to sell it again (without incurring losses). Selling on used goods as 'new' does not comply with the Distance Selling Regulation. Therefore please be advised that we cannot accept the part back for a full, or partial, refund or exchange." What should I do? Hi, I thought the idea of DSR was essentially to provide (akin to Argos money back guarantee, etc.) physical examination and demonstration models as found in traditional retail shops. I.e. if buying from a normal shop you can see it on the shelf, etc., request one from the back to examine, and request the display unit be demonstrated? Can anyone comment? The shop will not generally open and demonstrate the unit that you are considering purchasing. It may have a demo model that will be sold off at a reduced "ex-demo" price, later. Many people would not accept something from a shop where the box had obviously been opened - they would insist on getting a "new" one.. -- Sue An update from the OP.... 1- After some email ping-pong, Dabs without any further explanation have now agreed to take the unit back for a full refund, they originally said they wouldn't consider even a partial refund. They are due to collect tomorrow, I am holding my breath. 2- I find the argument about "used goods" difficult to uphold, in this particular instance, the goods as received by me were already opened and used and advertised as such by being descirbed as "reconditioned" (the definition here was that it would come in a "tatty" box and possibly from a repair centre) 3- I also thought as "News Reader" does. In the past I have had other vendors interpret DSR to include plugging in and using the equipment. I believe the bulk of "reconditioned" units end up in the distribution chain in this way (having been rejected by a previous buyer). I have often bought products this way and been happy with the results. 4- Nowhere in their return conditions do Dabs say anything about not switching on the unit (they offer a 10 "change your mind" period) see their returns policy he- http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 5- I don't think there is anything in DSR to say that you musn't switch the product on. The condition is that you should return it in a good state. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. 6- For those who were discussing eBay etc. yes I would have put it on eBay if Dabs hadn't taken it back. No it's not dishonest, it's just subjective whether you like a particular display or not. For what it's worth the other people who bought the same display raved about it. No prizes for guessing which review is mine http://www.dabs.com/ProductReviews.a...cklinx=4K11(Oh and this weekend the same unit was sold on eBay for 40 quid more than I paid Dabs! That's eBay for you) Hi, Pleased to hear things have gone well. From the DTI website on the DSR: "The right to cancel allows the consumer time to examine the goods or services, as they would have when buying in a shop." I also thought and my personal opinion was that a customer can generally request: - to see a unit demonstrated (either an existing demonstration unit or one "opened" or otherwise found for this purpose) - to require or request the right of inspection of a unit before purchase. I.e. Having essentially agreed to purchase a unit, when they bring it "out from the back" you can insist upon checking it (i.e. to make sure all parts are present and correct as well as everything appearing satisfactory - e.g. confirm that it is not an obviously damaged unit). Neither of these scenarios are uncommon, for example a lead or manual missing, or equally to find you have in the wonderful box an either imperfect of damaged unit (e.g. poor plastic moulding, etc., etc.) or one that is in fact not electrically or mechanically functional (I think on this later point that might be asking a bit too much and you can evidently return it if it fails in that regard as it can evidently fall for rejection as faulty). Hence, with the DSR meaning to replicate the same, as painful as it may seem or be to online retailers et. al., and perhaps seem to consumers overly generous to themselves, it would seem that within reason and due care and attention by the customer, one can expect to be able to replicate the above performance at home and then determine satisfaction, etc. Clearly, if you use it in a "normal" way, i.e. install it, use it without much care or consideration and use it whilst eating your take away, having a party, etc., etc. then you have not honoured the spirit of the legislation. Hence, I would only expect the above to mean whilst treating the device with the care and attention a trained member of shop staff would when opening and inspecting a (brand new sealed) unit. In other words, if you can perform only an initial minimal necessary whilst keeping the item in as received condition (perhaps a clean room with white lint gloves might be going a bit further than necessary) inspection, such that when you return it to its packaging it is, within reason, as it came out, bar some minor rearrangement of the packaging, then that would seem correct, right and fair enough. I think for example with a DVD-RW where it may get scratched putting it into its mount, you may start to cross the line come meet a grey area, which retailers need to and should make clear (very easily found and clearly in large print presented terms) their interpretation of this aspect of the regulations or their chosen approach to it (and cut off point). It is just as easy to test a drive for example without performing a full, final and permanent installation mounting first.... Just a bit of a bummer if you assume, believe, think, what have you that it looks great, etc., reports are good, etc., that it can't possibly XYZ (be too loud, etc, etc.,) and keenly and enthusiastically install whatever it may be (obviously still conscientiously and carefully, etc. but still to leave some mark) only to discover some, for oneself, significant shortcoming... lol. Best wishes, News Reader We are into the days of sealed units in shrink wrap or even welded plastic There is no way you can try an item without damaging the package. So it no longer appears to be new and the retailer would have to reduce it to resell. That reduction should come out of you pocket not theirs. Examine does not meant try before you buy. Some dealers are very happy to take back the goods you have tried and supply items better suited to your needs. But some else has to get your goods.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A further update from the OP Dabs had the unit collected yesterday. As I had also raised the matter with Trading Standards. Today I was contacted by a representative of "Consumers Direct" (set up by the OFT to handle intial enquiries on behalf of Trading Standards). I was informed that I was within my rights to demand return under DSR (even though the packages were opened and would have been if I opened any sealed packaging). When I drew the representatives attention to the Dabs conditions of Sale: http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 I was further informed tha Dabs conditions of sale are in contravention of DSR and that they will be referring the matter to Trading Standards with a view to a possible prosecution. I found the following guide on the DSR very useful http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf I hold my breath for the refund Payman |
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Negative exprience : Dabs Refund
On 6 Jun, 10:37, Palindrome wrote:
wrote: snip A further update from the OP Dabs had the unit collected yesterday. As I had also raised the matter with Trading Standards. Today I was contacted by a representative of "Consumers Direct" (set up by the OFT to handle intial enquiries on behalf of Trading Standards). I was informed that I was within my rights to demand return under DSR (even though the packages were opened and would have been if I opened any sealed packaging). When I drew the representatives attention to the Dabs conditions of Sale: http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=357 I was further informed tha Dabs conditions of sale are in contravention of DSR and that they will be referring the matter to Trading Standards with a view to a possible prosecution. I found the following guide on the DSR very useful http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf I hold my breath for the refund There is an interesting post in uk legal, by bcc97, that you may want to read. I have copied the contents here, for your convenience: "If you look at the preamble to the Distance Selling Directive, it's clear that the main driver behind the right of withdrawal is the fact that you can't examine goods in a distance contract prior to purchase, in the same way that you can in a shop. However, the Articles of the Directive (and consequently the Regulations) are somewhat more generous to the consumer than this. The consumer is entitled, unconditionally, to withdraw from (Directive) or cancel (Regulations) the contract within the specified time period, merely by serving notice of cancellation. This right is absolutely unconditional, i.e. it applies even if the consumer has consumed or destroyed the goods. I imagine that the right is expressed in the legislation in this way so as to achieve practical and legal certainty, without having to argue about the precise purpose of anything the consumer has done in respect of the goods. Where the contract is cancelled, the consumer is under a duty (both before and after cancellation) to take reasonable care of the goods and to restore them to the seller (at the consumer's expense if the contract specifies this). However, usage of the goods is not necessarily a breach of this duty. If the duty is breached, the consumer has not lost the right to cancel (in fact the duty only effectivley comes into being if the consumer does cancel). Instead, the consumer may be liable to compensate the seller for any damage arising from that breach of duty. This damage may be offset against the refund which is due. Other member states expressly permit a charge for any use which has been made, or for depreciation (e.g. Germany, Austria), although these provisions are arguably inconsistent with the Directive. For more information, seewww.eu-consumer-law.org." Not something that I would imagine that many distance selling companies would like to test in Court. -- Sue- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Further update from the OP I got an apology by email from Dabs. Credit card refund received in full (including carriage both ways). I think Dabs cocked up at first and then went overboard trying to correct their initial mistake, strictly they needn't have paid carriage. Trading standards confirmed that Distance Selling Regulations were definitely on my side whether or not the product had been opened, switched on etc. My duty was to "take care of the items" purchased. So worth sticking to your guns and get trading standards and/or the credit card company involved. It'd be interesting to see if Dabs do change the return conditions on their T&C (as it stands they are contrary to the DSR) Payman |
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