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Major upgrade



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 21st 19, 07:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age, which I built
in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU
500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs
Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Intel i7 8700 CPU $400
Asus Z390 Prime MB $260
Asus RX 580 GPU $255
16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memory $160
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler $35

For a total of $1110 CDN

Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the future
and will pass it on to my Son, After all I am 85 years old and may not
be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I really
don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a serious
discussion with my Financial advisor (myself). :-)

Thanks to all

Rene



  #2  
Old April 22nd 19, 12:51 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,407
Default Major upgrade

On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:26:43 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

which I built in 2010.

-

Also did mine, about the same age, after lightning knocked it out. Hit
the pole-pig in my backyard, through the modem, looking to have taken
just the modem and MB, or leaving everything else salvageable intact.

New AM3+ MB, some Black Mamba PV34G160C0 memory for $26, and (three)
CPUs. After the AMD octal, I liked the MB so much I sent off for
another, did the same update to both computers (circa 2010 builds),
and bought two CPU pulls: one from Singapore after another domestic.
Settled for octal and a Singapore quad Fx, with both running close
enough to a stock 4.0Ghz.

$250/US and change to rebuild two systems.

Discounting the FX octal, which on a whim I bought retail after the
great plunge, shock and awe, naturally resulting from Ryzen
technology.
  #3  
Old April 22nd 19, 01:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age, which I built
in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU
500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs
Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Intel i7 8700 CPU $400
Asus Z390 Prime MB $260
Asus RX 580 GPU $255
16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memory $160
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler $35

For a total of $1110 CDN

Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the future
and will pass it on to my Son, After all I am 85 years old and may not
be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I really
don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a serious
discussion with my Financial advisor (myself). :-)

Thanks to all

Rene


A buck doesn't seem to go as far as it used to,
when it comes to computer components.

Do you think your son would appreciate your (hypothetical) computer ?

For example, if I left a computer for my younger brother,
he hates computers. The last time I was talking to him on
the phone, he said he's in the process of quitting his
current job, because management want to "computerize"
operations. All he wants to do is put in a days work,
not putz around with tablets all the time. And after
me trying to input data for a survey at the doctors
office, I don't think I'd want to use a tablet
at work either (I'd definitely need a proper keyboard).

I already gave a computer to my brother, and he gave it
away to one of his friends. He tried it out for a while,
but when a friend expressed an interest, he gave it to him.

*******

It's OK to want a toy to play with, your own self.

A lot of regular computer usage, fits the single-thread model.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

The 9900K manages to achieve 5GHz on one or two cores, using
turbo. (It's possible Anandtech had a turbo table for the thing,
and you'd want to verify that.)

Whereas, the multithreading table, is less relevant. Sure, this
tells you how a multitasking compute job might finish a little
faster with one of the monster processors. But unless you're
a software developer, 28 cores would be a waste.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Even the 9900K has more cores than you might need for
Firefox or for gaming.

In any case, on that platform, you could look at the LGA1151 table.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Related_CPU...ee%20Lake.html

The 9900K is $700 CDN. The 9900K has graphics, while the 9900KF has
the graphics core removed (and isn't a dollar cheaper either).

Core i9-9900K 8/16 3.6GHz 5GHz 16MB 95W AVX, AVX2, HT, TXT, TBT, Unlock $488 USD

If they had a 6 core 5GHz version, I'd be happy with that too, as
long as it gave a decent clock boost over what I already
owned.

In terms of the motherboard having a lot of phases, there are
a couple reasons for that.

1) User wants to overclock to 5GHz on all cores.

2) But if you have any programs that use AVX512, a 95W processor
will draw a couple hundred watts when AVX512 kicks in.

Modern processors have "time constants" and "power limiters".
A motherboard with a "weak" regulator, could get away with that
by using fairly aggressive throttling. As "legally speaking", you
could cut off a 95W processor a couple seconds after it goes
over 95W, and throttle it. Or, you could use a longer time constant,
or remove the limit entirely, if the VCore is capable of
handling it (and the user selected a good enough cooler
for that situation).

As otherwise, I couldn't understand how a 95W processor
needs 12 phase power.

At one time, when phases cost a lot of money, you could
get 30W from a single phase. And some processors were
low power enough, you could power them off a single phase.
Having 12 phases at 20W each, would be sufficient to handle
an AVX512 loading.

I don't think I currently have any programs here, that
threaten to use that instruction. The Prime95 guy played
around with some flavor of AVX, but other than that, I don't
think that's a "gamer" instruction.

*******

If none of that interests you, your choices above are perfectly
reasonable.

We can no longer get improvements like the old days, where
my computer went from a Celeron 300 to a Tualatin 1400.
(I had to change the voltage regulator chip with a soldering
iron to do that.) The speedup on clock isn't quite as large today.

Paul
  #4  
Old April 22nd 19, 02:35 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/21/2019 7:29 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age,Â* which I
built in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU
500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs
Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Â*Intel i7 8700 CPUÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â* $400
Â*Asus Z390 Prime MBÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $260
Â*Asus RX 580 GPUÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â* $255
Â*16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memoryÂ*Â* $160
Â*Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU coolerÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* $35

Â*For a total ofÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* $1110 CDN

Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the
future and will pass it on to my Son, After allÂ* I am 85 years old and
may not be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I
really don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a
serious discussion with my Financial advisor (myself).Â* :-)

Thanks to all

Rene


A buck doesn't seem to go as far as it used to,
when it comes to computer components.


I was rather surprised at CPU prices, they are expensive, this coffee
lake is as high as I need to go, The K is about 80 bucks more but I
won't overclock, did enough of that in the past.


Do you think your son would appreciate your (hypothetical) computer ?


Yes,he is running a similar rig to mine and I do all his service and
update work, He would be very happy if I left him a good solid trouble
free system as he is not too hardware oriented. He uses his system
quite extensively for Photoshop work and general net and mail stuff.


For example, if I left a computer for my younger brother,
he hates computers. The last time I was talking to him on
the phone, he said he's in the process of quitting his
current job, because management want to "computerize"
operations. All he wants to do is put in a days work,
not putz around with tablets all the time. And after
me trying to input data for a survey at the doctors
office, I don't think I'd want to use a tablet
at work either (I'd definitely need a proper keyboard).

I already gave a computer to my brother, and he gave it
away to one of his friends. He tried it out for a while,
but when a friend expressed an interest, he gave it to him.

*******

It's OK to want a toy to play with, your own self.

A lot of regular computer usage, fits the single-thread model.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

The 9900K manages to achieve 5GHz on one or two cores, using
turbo. (It's possible Anandtech had a turbo table for the thing,
and you'd want to verify that.)

Whereas, the multithreading table, is less relevant. Sure, this
tells you how a multitasking compute job might finish a little
faster with one of the monster processors. But unless you're
a software developer, 28 cores would be a waste.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Even the 9900K has more cores than you might need for
Firefox or for gaming.

In any case, on that platform, you could look at the LGA1151 table.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Related_CPU...ee%20Lake.html

The 9900K is $700 CDN. The 9900K has graphics, while the 9900KF has
the graphics core removed (and isn't a dollar cheaper either).

Core i9-9900KÂ* 8/16Â* 3.6GHzÂ* 5GHzÂ* 16MBÂ* 95WÂ* AVX, AVX2, HT, TXT, TBT,
UnlockÂ*Â*Â* $488 USD

If they had a 6 core 5GHz version, I'd be happy with that too, as
long as it gave a decent clock boost over what I already
owned.

In terms of the motherboard having a lot of phases, there are
a couple reasons for that.

1) User wants to overclock to 5GHz on all cores.

2) But if you have any programs that use AVX512, a 95W processor
Â*Â* will draw a couple hundred watts when AVX512 kicks in.

Modern processors have "time constants" and "power limiters".
A motherboard with a "weak" regulator, could get away with that
by using fairly aggressive throttling. As "legally speaking", you
could cut off a 95W processor a couple seconds after it goes
over 95W, and throttle it. Or, you could use a longer time constant,
or remove the limit entirely, if the VCore is capable of
handling it (and the user selected a good enough cooler
for that situation).

As otherwise, I couldn't understand how a 95W processor
needs 12 phase power.

At one time, when phases cost a lot of money, you could
get 30W from a single phase. And some processors were
low power enough, you could power them off a single phase.
Having 12 phases at 20W each, would be sufficient to handle
an AVX512 loading.

I don't think I currently have any programs here, that
threaten to use that instruction. The Prime95 guy played
around with some flavor of AVX, but other than that, I don't
think that's a "gamer" instruction.

*******


The i8700 6 core running at 3.2 GHz should be quite adequate, my
computer use is much less demanding than it used to be also.


If none of that interests you, your choices above are perfectly
reasonable.

We can no longer get improvements like the old days, where
my computer went from a Celeron 300 to a Tualatin 1400.
(I had to change the voltage regulator chip with a soldering
iron to do that.) The speedup on clock isn't quite as large today.

Â*Â* Paul


Thanks for the reply.

Rene


  #5  
Old April 22nd 19, 03:28 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 213
Default Major upgrade

On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:26:43 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age, which I built
in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU


I did a very similar upgrade a couple of months ago and ran into an
issue where the new system would POST, but nothing more. I swapped the
PSU, then the motherboard, then the CPU, then another motherboard, and
finally I swapped in a third PSU. That finally got me going. The moral
is, just because a PSU works fine with an older system doesn't
necessarily mean it will work OK on the new build. My old system had
16GB of RAM and 16 SATA drives, and the first two PSUs worked fine on
that system, but on the new system with 16GB RAM and 0 SSD/HDD and 1
optical drive, the two old PSUs wouldn't get past POST. Go figure.

500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs


Make sure the new motherboard has enough SATA ports for all of that, and
if you plan to add an m.2 drive at any point, pay particular attention
to what gets disabled when you do. It's common to lose a SATA port or
two when you install an m.2 drive, or perhaps a couple of PCIe lanes.

Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Intel i7 8700 CPU $400


I chose the same CPU, partly because it has built in graphics. I don't
do any gaming so the onboard GPU is fine with me. I opted out of the
8700K for the same reason that you did.

Asus Z390 Prime MB $260


I chose the Asus Z390 Aorus Ultra. I'd have to do a side by side
comparison to tell you what the differences are.

Asus RX 580 GPU $255


See above. No gaming for me, so no need for a standalone GPU. Money
saved.

16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memory $160


I went with 64GB of basically the same RAM as you picked. It's G.Skill
3200, but I'm not sure if it's Trident. Anyway, I maxed out the RAM
because I run lots of VMs on that system. I've had it up to 22 VMs and
still had nearly half the RAM still available. That won't matter to you,
so 16GB is probably fine. You know best what you plan to be doing.

Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler $35


I'm using the stock cooler. The 8700 comes with one, while the 8700K
does not. My plan was to use the stock cooler until I see how much
additional cooling is needed, but it turned out that the stock cooler is
perfectly fine for everyday tasks. Online reviews will mostly confirm
that, except in a few special cases where people aren't doing normal
work.

For a total of $1110 CDN


Mine was way less than that, (other than my additional 48GB RAM). CDN is
part of the difference, (I'm in the US), and skipping the GPU and fancy
cooler saved a bit more.


Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the future
and will pass it on to my Son, After all I am 85 years old and may not
be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I really
don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a serious
discussion with my Financial advisor (myself). :-)


I think you're on a good track. As I stated above, I'd question the GPU
and the 3rd party CPU cooler, (you can always add those things later, if
needed), and I'd caution you to make sure the new mobo has enough SATA
ports for all of those drives. That's about it. Oh yeah, watch out for
the PSU acting weird, especially if it's been in service for quite a few
years, even if it works fine with the current system.

  #6  
Old April 22nd 19, 04:17 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/21/2019 9:28 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:26:43 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age, which I built
in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU


I did a very similar upgrade a couple of months ago and ran into an
issue where the new system would POST, but nothing more. I swapped the
PSU, then the motherboard, then the CPU, then another motherboard, and
finally I swapped in a third PSU. That finally got me going. The moral
is, just because a PSU works fine with an older system doesn't
necessarily mean it will work OK on the new build. My old system had
16GB of RAM and 16 SATA drives, and the first two PSUs worked fine on
that system, but on the new system with 16GB RAM and 0 SSD/HDD and 1
optical drive, the two old PSUs wouldn't get past POST. Go figure.


Hi Char, the Corsair PSU is only about 11 months old, not the original one.


500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs


Make sure the new motherboard has enough SATA ports for all of that, and
if you plan to add an m.2 drive at any point, pay particular attention
to what gets disabled when you do. It's common to lose a SATA port or
two when you install an m.2 drive, or perhaps a couple of PCIe lanes.



This board has 6 Sata ports, the 2 HDDs and 1 SSD are internal plus the
DVD, the other SSDs are run external from a hot swap bay built into the
Coolermaster case.


Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Intel i7 8700 CPU $400


I chose the same CPU, partly because it has built in graphics. I don't
do any gaming so the onboard GPU is fine with me. I opted out of the
8700K for the same reason that you did.

Asus Z390 Prime MB $260


I chose the Asus Z390 Aorus Ultra. I'd have to do a side by side
comparison to tell you what the differences are.


I will look at that one also.


Asus RX 580 GPU $255


See above. No gaming for me, so no need for a standalone GPU. Money
saved.


WE both do light gaming, No heavy new games.


16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memory $160


I went with 64GB of basically the same RAM as you picked. It's G.Skill
3200, but I'm not sure if it's Trident. Anyway, I maxed out the RAM
because I run lots of VMs on that system. I've had it up to 22 VMs and
still had nearly half the RAM still available. That won't matter to you,
so 16GB is probably fine. You know best what you plan to be doing.


No, 16 GB is ample, we are running on 6GB now.


Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler $35


I'm using the stock cooler. The 8700 comes with one, while the 8700K
does not. My plan was to use the stock cooler until I see how much
additional cooling is needed, but it turned out that the stock cooler is
perfectly fine for everyday tasks. Online reviews will mostly confirm
that, except in a few special cases where people aren't doing normal
work.


The cooler is only $35 so it's good protection for the expensive CPU.


For a total of $1110 CDN


Mine was way less than that, (other than my additional 48GB RAM). CDN is
part of the difference, (I'm in the US), and skipping the GPU and fancy
cooler saved a bit more.


Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the future
and will pass it on to my Son, After all I am 85 years old and may not
be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I really
don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a serious
discussion with my Financial advisor (myself). :-)


I think you're on a good track. As I stated above, I'd question the GPU
and the 3rd party CPU cooler, (you can always add those things later, if
needed), and I'd caution you to make sure the new mobo has enough SATA
ports for all of those drives. That's about it. Oh yeah, watch out for
the PSU acting weird, especially if it's been in service for quite a few
years, even if it works fine with the current system.


Thanks for all the pointers Char, will do a little more research before
I begin.

Rene



  #7  
Old April 22nd 19, 04:27 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:26:43 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age, which I built
in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU


I did a very similar upgrade a couple of months ago and ran into an
issue where the new system would POST, but nothing more. I swapped the
PSU, then the motherboard, then the CPU, then another motherboard, and
finally I swapped in a third PSU. That finally got me going. The moral
is, just because a PSU works fine with an older system doesn't
necessarily mean it will work OK on the new build. My old system had
16GB of RAM and 16 SATA drives, and the first two PSUs worked fine on
that system, but on the new system with 16GB RAM and 0 SSD/HDD and 1
optical drive, the two old PSUs wouldn't get past POST. Go figure.

500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs


Make sure the new motherboard has enough SATA ports for all of that, and
if you plan to add an m.2 drive at any point, pay particular attention
to what gets disabled when you do. It's common to lose a SATA port or
two when you install an m.2 drive, or perhaps a couple of PCIe lanes.

Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Intel i7 8700 CPU $400


I chose the same CPU, partly because it has built in graphics. I don't
do any gaming so the onboard GPU is fine with me. I opted out of the
8700K for the same reason that you did.

Asus Z390 Prime MB $260


I chose the Asus Z390 Aorus Ultra. I'd have to do a side by side
comparison to tell you what the differences are.

Asus RX 580 GPU $255


See above. No gaming for me, so no need for a standalone GPU. Money
saved.

16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memory $160


I went with 64GB of basically the same RAM as you picked. It's G.Skill
3200, but I'm not sure if it's Trident. Anyway, I maxed out the RAM
because I run lots of VMs on that system. I've had it up to 22 VMs and
still had nearly half the RAM still available. That won't matter to you,
so 16GB is probably fine. You know best what you plan to be doing.

Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler $35


I'm using the stock cooler. The 8700 comes with one, while the 8700K
does not. My plan was to use the stock cooler until I see how much
additional cooling is needed, but it turned out that the stock cooler is
perfectly fine for everyday tasks. Online reviews will mostly confirm
that, except in a few special cases where people aren't doing normal
work.

For a total of $1110 CDN


Mine was way less than that, (other than my additional 48GB RAM). CDN is
part of the difference, (I'm in the US), and skipping the GPU and fancy
cooler saved a bit more.

Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the future
and will pass it on to my Son, After all I am 85 years old and may not
be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I really
don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a serious
discussion with my Financial advisor (myself). :-)


I think you're on a good track. As I stated above, I'd question the GPU
and the 3rd party CPU cooler, (you can always add those things later, if
needed), and I'd caution you to make sure the new mobo has enough SATA
ports for all of those drives. That's about it. Oh yeah, watch out for
the PSU acting weird, especially if it's been in service for quite a few
years, even if it works fine with the current system.


They started coming out with "Haswell certified" power supplies
a few years back, and it had something to do with when Haswell
went into a deep enough power save state, the supply didn't
regulate well at low load.

There was a time, when power supplies were so poorly designed,
there were two rows on the spec table, "max" load and "min" load.
Some required the user to maintain a significant load (25% of max!).
But it was well before the Haswell era, before supplies like that
disappeared from the market. That's why the need for "Haswell certified"
supplies was a surprise at the time.

I use my clamp-on DC ammeter on new builds, and the idle power
on CPUs has mysteriously been 13W or so, for a long time. But I
don't own a Haswell, and don't know how low those drop while
in service. (Also never owned a Prescott, which leaked like crazy.)

And sleep on the machine with four DIMMs is 5W and sleep
on the machine with eight DIMMs is 7.5W (different RAM generations).

I've never had a supply here that showed an inability to regulate
at low load. Some use a dummy load inside the supply, to meet
zero load conditions (again, the old days).

Paul
  #8  
Old April 22nd 19, 05:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
John Doe[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 410
Default Major upgrade

Paul wrote:

I use my clamp-on DC ammeter on new builds, and the idle power
on CPUs has mysteriously been 13W or so, for a long time. But I
don't own a Haswell, and don't know how low those drop while
in service. (Also never owned a Prescott, which leaked like crazy.)

And sleep on the machine with four DIMMs is 5W and sleep
on the machine with eight DIMMs is 7.5W (different RAM generations).


A wattage meter (KILL-A-WATT) is in line with my system box, including
an i7-6700K and a humongous old GeForce GTX980. It is almost always
between 50 W and 60 W, including power supply inefficiency.
  #9  
Old April 22nd 19, 06:11 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Major upgrade

John Doe wrote:
Paul wrote:

I use my clamp-on DC ammeter on new builds, and the idle power
on CPUs has mysteriously been 13W or so, for a long time. But I
don't own a Haswell, and don't know how low those drop while
in service. (Also never owned a Prescott, which leaked like crazy.)

And sleep on the machine with four DIMMs is 5W and sleep
on the machine with eight DIMMs is 7.5W (different RAM generations).


A wattage meter (KILL-A-WATT) is in line with my system box, including
an i7-6700K and a humongous old GeForce GTX980. It is almost always
between 50 W and 60 W, including power supply inefficiency.


To measure a CPU, I take the two yellow wires on the ATX12V cable
and put them in the jaws of the clamp-on DC ammeter. I get a number
around 1.1 amps at idle. This power flows to VCore, and from VCore
to the CPU. Part of the "inefficiency" would be a slight heat loss
from VCore, with the rest being the CPU heat at idle. That's what the
13W measurement is all about.

I considered it freaky, that the readings cluster like that.

The current flow consumption is not likely to be pure DC.
Some VCores only operate at 100KHz or so (Richtek), with
others being higher. I don't really know if my clamp-on
ammeter is making a good measurement or not. In a lab
situation, I would resort to a current shunt and a scope,
just to get some idea of the spectrum involved. True RMS
devices might typically be True RMS up to about 50KHz or so.

*******

When you measure on the AC side of a PC, much of the high frequency
garbage won't be present. The ATX supply isolates, and the power
drawn comes from the main cap, which functions as a reservoir. The
noise on the primary side will be at the ATX supply switching
frequency (no idea what that is), and a couple stages of
filtering help separate that noise from the line. I've
had one ATX supply "failure" here, where significant RF
interference was coming from a supply - so much in fact,
it caused my ADSL modem to "lose sync". None of my other
ATX supplies do that.

Paul
  #10  
Old April 22nd 19, 04:03 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
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Posts: 187
Default Major upgrade

On 04/21/2019 10:27 PM, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:26:43 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

I am contemplating upgrading my I7 950 system due to age,Â* which I
built in 2010.
I would be looking at replacing 5 items.

CPU
Motherboard
Memory
Video card
CPU cooler.

I will keep the
Coolermaster CM690 II case
Corsair RM750i PSU


I did a very similar upgrade a couple of months ago and ran into an
issue where the new system would POST, but nothing more. I swapped the
PSU, then the motherboard, then the CPU, then another motherboard, and
finally I swapped in a third PSU. That finally got me going. The moral
is, just because a PSU works fine with an older system doesn't
necessarily mean it will work OK on the new build. My old system had
16GB of RAM and 16 SATA drives, and the first two PSUs worked fine on
that system, but on the new system with 16GB RAM and 0 SSD/HDD and 1
optical drive, the two old PSUs wouldn't get past POST. Go figure.

500 GB and 1 terabyte HDDs
5x 120 GB SSDs


Make sure the new motherboard has enough SATA ports for all of that, and
if you plan to add an m.2 drive at any point, pay particular attention
to what gets disabled when you do. It's common to lose a SATA port or
two when you install an m.2 drive, or perhaps a couple of PCIe lanes.

Asus optical DVD burner

At the moment I am looking at

Â*Intel i7 8700 CPUÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â* $400


I chose the same CPU, partly because it has built in graphics. I don't
do any gaming so the onboard GPU is fine with me. I opted out of the
8700K for the same reason that you did.

Â*Asus Z390 Prime MBÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* $260


I chose the Asus Z390 Aorus Ultra. I'd have to do a side by side
comparison to tell you what the differences are.

Â*Asus RX 580 GPUÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â*Â*Â* $255


See above. No gaming for me, so no need for a standalone GPU. Money
saved.

Â*16 GB of G.Skill Trident 3200 Ghz memoryÂ*Â* $160


I went with 64GB of basically the same RAM as you picked. It's G.Skill
3200, but I'm not sure if it's Trident. Anyway, I maxed out the RAM
because I run lots of VMs on that system. I've had it up to 22 VMs and
still had nearly half the RAM still available. That won't matter to you,
so 16GB is probably fine. You know best what you plan to be doing.

Â*Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo CPU coolerÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* $35


I'm using the stock cooler. The 8700 comes with one, while the 8700K
does not. My plan was to use the stock cooler until I see how much
additional cooling is needed, but it turned out that the stock cooler is
perfectly fine for everyday tasks. Online reviews will mostly confirm
that, except in a few special cases where people aren't doing normal
work.

Â*For a total ofÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* $1110 CDN


Mine was way less than that, (other than my additional 48GB RAM). CDN is
part of the difference, (I'm in the US), and skipping the GPU and fancy
cooler saved a bit more.

Seems like a lot of cash for an upgrade to a system which is already
fast enough and is totally trouble free, But I am looking to the
future and will pass it on to my Son, After allÂ* I am 85 years old
and may not be able to do this if I wait too long.

So Look at the component choices I have made and let me know if there
are better choices without going to extreme high end kit which I
really don't need. This is not set in stone as I need to have a
serious discussion with my Financial advisor (myself).Â* :-)


I think you're on a good track. As I stated above, I'd question the GPU
and the 3rd party CPU cooler, (you can always add those things later, if
needed), and I'd caution you to make sure the new mobo has enough SATA
ports for all of those drives. That's about it. Oh yeah, watch out for
the PSU acting weird, especially if it's been in service for quite a few
years, even if it works fine with the current system.


They started coming out with "Haswell certified" power supplies
a few years back, and it had something to do with when Haswell
went into a deep enough power save state, the supply didn't
regulate well at low load.

There was a time, when power supplies were so poorly designed,
there were two rows on the spec table, "max" load and "min" load.
Some required the user to maintain a significant load (25% of max!).
But it was well before the Haswell era, before supplies like that
disappeared from the market. That's why the need for "Haswell certified"
supplies was a surprise at the time.

I use my clamp-on DC ammeter on new builds, and the idle power
on CPUs has mysteriously been 13W or so, for a long time. But I
don't own a Haswell, and don't know how low those drop while
in service. (Also never owned a Prescott, which leaked like crazy.)

And sleep on the machine with four DIMMs is 5W and sleep
on the machine with eight DIMMs is 7.5W (different RAM generations).

I've never had a supply here that showed an inability to regulate
at low load. Some use a dummy load inside the supply, to meet
zero load conditions (again, the old days).

Â*Â* Paul


The Corsair RM750i as shown on Neweggs site is "Haswell ready" It is
Gold rated and I chose based on excellent reviews from all sources and
good specs.
BTW it is priced at $198.0 on Neweggs site so it is not a cheapie, I do
not believe in skimping when it comes to PSUs
My system draws 119 watts on the kill-o-watt and sitting on the desktop
doing nothing and 118 watts shown on the Corsair LINK utility.
Sleep mode with 3 dimms is 3.1 watts.

Rene

 




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