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AGP 8x vs PCIe
Currently I'm using an AGP 8x video card (Asus A9600XT) with this
motherboard: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...ual-VSTA&s=775 If I have to replace that card, would I be better off putting in a PCIe card. The literature for the motherboard refers to the PCIe slot as a "PCI Express Graphics slot," but I can recall seeing it referred to as "PCI Express Slot (x16 physical, x4 electric)" or something close. Q1) Will a PCI Express x16 Video Card under perform compared to a "real" x16 slot? Q2) Any recommendations for a PCIe card in the $50 or less price point? Thanks. |
#2
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
Grinder wrote:
Currently I'm using an AGP 8x video card (Asus A9600XT) with this motherboard: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...ual-VSTA&s=775 If I have to replace that card, would I be better off putting in a PCIe card. The literature for the motherboard refers to the PCIe slot as a "PCI Express Graphics slot," but I can recall seeing it referred to as "PCI Express Slot (x16 physical, x4 electric)" or something close. Q1) Will a PCI Express x16 Video Card under perform compared to a "real" x16 slot? Q2) Any recommendations for a PCIe card in the $50 or less price point? Thanks. Well, that is Asrock for you. At least they give a list of supported PCI Express cards. (The FAQ page mentions there is a trick to using a 8800GT.) http://www.asrock.com/mb/vga.asp?Mod...ual-VSTA&s=775 x4 lane wiring is 1000MB/sec TX and 1000MB/sec RX. Assuming most of the video card data is moving in one direction at a given moment, this makes the slot performance similar to AGP 4X (1066MB/sec half duplex). To see the impact of limited slot bandwidth, there is this old article. Check *all* the benchmarks, because some things are more sensitive to a limited slot than others. This page is relatively bad... http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/...ing/page8.html while the gaming page is hardly affected... http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/...ng/page10.html Is your video card purchase for gaming or not ? At $50, you'll get something which is good for 2D desktop work, maybe even Vista Aero, but will be lacking for any strenuous game usage. HTH, Paul |
#3
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
Paul wrote:
Is your video card purchase for gaming or not ? At $50, you'll get something which is good for 2D desktop work, maybe even Vista Aero, but will be lacking for any strenuous game usage. I don't really do much gaming, wouldn't mind leaving the door open for some slightly moldy games as they pass through the bargain bin. With my existing AGP 8x card, I can run Half-life 2 and Doom 3 at decent frame rates and resolutions, so I'd be looking for at least that. It sounds as if I would be better off going for an AGP 8x card, as they are pretty cheap, and with all else being equal, will outperform and PCI-E card in my machine. Thanks, Paul, for the input. |
#4
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
"Grinder" wrote in message news:hQv7j.228073$Xa3.20178@attbi_s22... Currently I'm using an AGP 8x video card (Asus A9600XT) with this motherboard: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...ual-VSTA&s=775 If I have to replace that card, would I be better off putting in a PCIe card. The literature for the motherboard refers to the PCIe slot as a "PCI Express Graphics slot," but I can recall seeing it referred to as "PCI Express Slot (x16 physical, x4 electric)" or something close. Q1) Will a PCI Express x16 Video Card under perform compared to a "real" x16 slot? In the real world, (from everything that I've read & heard - so this is hearsay because I didn't keep the multitude of links) there is no noticable difference between the Pcie running at 4x & AGP running at 8x - even with a new Pcie 16x card in a 16x slot any benefits are only really seen at the higher end. Don't worry about changing your video card until you have to, by which time Pcie will be the only way to go - unless of course you come across an absolute bargain. |
#5
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:25:46 GMT, Grinder
wrote: Paul wrote: Is your video card purchase for gaming or not ? At $50, you'll get something which is good for 2D desktop work, maybe even Vista Aero, but will be lacking for any strenuous game usage. I don't really do much gaming, wouldn't mind leaving the door open for some slightly moldy games as they pass through the bargain bin. With my existing AGP 8x card, I can run Half-life 2 and Doom 3 at decent frame rates and resolutions, so I'd be looking for at least that. Neither of these games have a particular need for 8X AGP, Half Life 2 even runs reasonably on an old o'c nForce2 integrated video system I have, at least up to 1024x768 res., as it can run in DX7 mode. Eyecandy and resolution mean a lot when considering older cards, and that includes whether you might upgrade the monitor to one having higher native resolution in the future, through choice or monitor failure. It sounds as if I would be better off going for an AGP 8x card, as they are pretty cheap, and with all else being equal, will outperform and PCI-E card in my machine. Thanks, Paul, for the input. If you could get a deal on a used AGP card, maybe, but PCI Express cards of equal performance cost less new and having a PCI Express card it is viable for reuse in the future. If your PCI Express slot is bandwidth limited, it would still be offset by the potential advantage of a little faster PCI Express card you might use. I don't understand your question though, you're asking IF you needed to replace it. Is there impending doom? Unless it has a fan that fails and the card bakes itself to death, the card might outlive the motherboard. One last thought. Your current card plays aging titles like HL2 and Doom3 ok, but that bargain bin will have games with progressively more and more demand on the video card just as each generation of games did before they aged. It means to retain a similar usability in the future, the performance would have to be higher. We can't know if or how much you might watch HD video but current generations of cards have more hardware decoding which might come in handy, or certain models of cards might have some features you might want like HDMI output or dual DVI. I'm saying that only basing a card on performance at a few years old games leaves a lot of latitude and there are more details you might benefit from considering. Given all the criteria I would think about a 8500GT, which is sometimes discounted, with a rebate bringing it down to around $30 to 40 after rebate. For example, http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=333037 but I don't know anything about how noisey the fan is and believe there are some passively cooled (at higher price of course unless you happened upon a rebate for one of those). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE On the other hand I feel a little higher performing card would have better long term viability, but seldom are such cards available for around $50. Rarely you may find deals on a 8600GT for closer to $65-80 after a larger rebate. On ATI's side, you might find a 2600Pro rebated down to about $65-75 currently, or 2400Pro for a bit less but dropping too low in price you aren't getting over that hump of covering their basic manufacturing costs so there is much performance to be gained in the $65 and up (after discounts) price range over a sub-$50 card. |
#6
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
kony wrote:
I don't understand your question though, you're asking IF you needed to replace it. Is there impending doom? Unless it has a fan that fails and the card bakes itself to death, the card might outlive the motherboard. The card has a heatsink/fan that has once previously failed. It was still in warranty, so I got it replaced. It's starting to act up again, so I'm considering what I'll do if it fails this time, out of warranty. Given all the criteria I would think about a 8500GT, which is sometimes discounted, with a rebate bringing it down to around $30 to 40 after rebate. For example, http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=333037 but I don't know anything about how noisey the fan is and believe there are some passively cooled (at higher price of course unless you happened upon a rebate for one of those). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE Given that on my current card, the fan has failed in a most annoyingly noisy manner, a quiet card is attractive. Thanks for your suggestions. |
#7
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AGP 8x vs PCIe
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:22:27 GMT, Grinder
wrote: kony wrote: I don't understand your question though, you're asking IF you needed to replace it. Is there impending doom? Unless it has a fan that fails and the card bakes itself to death, the card might outlive the motherboard. The card has a heatsink/fan that has once previously failed. It was still in warranty, so I got it replaced. It's starting to act up again, so I'm considering what I'll do if it fails this time, out of warranty. Put a couple drops of very thick (almost greaselike consistency) oil in the bearing. Repeat this every year or so. If necessary, take the 'sink off and drill some holes to mount a better fan with screws or nylon wire ties. Solder the old fan connector onto the new fan if finding a fan with the right mini-connector is a problem. Given all the criteria I would think about a 8500GT, which is sometimes discounted, with a rebate bringing it down to around $30 to 40 after rebate. For example, http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=333037 but I don't know anything about how noisey the fan is and believe there are some passively cooled (at higher price of course unless you happened upon a rebate for one of those). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE Given that on my current card, the fan has failed in a most annoyingly noisy manner, a quiet card is attractive. Thanks for your suggestions. I usually just take some old heatsink from the socket 370 era and machine it down till it's a size I like, then put a 50-60mm x 15mm thick standard fan on it. The mounting options are the trickier part, I've done it various ways from putting solid strand 14 gauge wire through the sink exiting in newly drilled holes adjacent to the original case heatsink mounting holes (when their metal clad so the wire can be soldered in place while pressure is on it), to original mounting screws and new holes tapped into the replacement 'sink, to new screws but reusing the original springs still for tension, or sometimes getting more elaborate depending on how inspired I am, and what the original mount was like. Here's a nice cheap Alpha 'sink that I put on a FX5700, nice because it takes a standard 60mm fan (has tapped holes in the corners, might be 4-40 thread IIRC) http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G13955 but of course having something this tall with a fan on it will at least block the adjacent slot to the video card, and possibly even a 2nd slot will be a tight fit... I can't recall on my FX5700 if it needed two empty slots next to it or not, but I think not because I vaguely recall the system it's in also has a gigabit ethernet, and sound card while the board in it is only mATX so it's slot-limited... would be impossible for it to take up more than one empty slot's worth of space. |
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