Hitachi 7K250 any good?

Marc de Vries wrote in
message ...
Rod Speed wrote

Thats much more convenient for the user who
isnt then without a drive for any time at all, and
if the drive isnt completely dead they may be
able to copy stuff from the original drive too.

Their policy is that they don't do that.

And thats one of the reasons they can take their drives
and shove them where the sun dont shine and I choose
to use drive manufacturers with a clue on that stuff.

That must make your choose of drive manufacturers very small.

Nope, just excludes IBM/Hitachi.

Maxtor and WD have the same policy.

Completely wrong.

And can use the shipping container the replacement
showed up in to send the failed drive back in.

Luckily, in Europe, they don't make such a
fuss about the shipping container as in the US.

Its always been a terminal stupidity when
cross shipping fixes that problem completely.

It's the same with almost any component in your PC.

Nope, nothing like it. Its only with hard drives that the
manufacturers have that sort of stringent demands on
the packaging used when returning an RMAed device.

Having such a negative fixation on IBM/Hitachi when they
do the same as the rest of the industry is pretty stupid too.

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

WHEN THEY WILL CROSS SHIP, YOU CAN USE THE
PACKAGING THAT THE REPLACEMENT ARRIVES IN TO
RETURN THE FAILED DRIVE AND THE MANUFACTURER
CANNOT POSSIBLY CLAIM THAT THE PACKAGING IS
INADEQUATE AND VOIDS THE WARRANTY ON THAT BASIS.

Surely even you cant actually be THAT stupid.

I would certainly want cross shipment there too.

But the competition doesn't cross ship here either.

Bull****.

Is it?

Yep, complete and utter bull****.

And why do you think so?

Because I have seen individuals
say they have had a cross ship done.

Do you live in the Netherlands?

Dont need to.

Do you know the policy for Maxtor and WD here?

Dont need to 'live' there to check that, fool.

But that might be different in the US too?

And in plenty of other places too.

So it doesnt matter a damn what happens in that soggy
little 'country', what matters is what happens world wide.

Seems just as good or better than the competition.

Fraid not. They can be surprisingly
slow to send out the replacement too.

Took about a week before I had the replacement.

Plenty have had to wait a lot longer
than that, reported in here alone.

Well, this is not the only hardware group on the internet.

Must be one of those rocket scientist fools.

Never ever said it was and that aint relevant
to what's been reported in here alone on lousy
turnaround times with IBM/Hitachi drives anyway.

Maybe the people in the Netherlands
are just more efficient in these matters?

All completely and utterly irrelevant to
the vast number of drive owners that dont
happen to 'live' in that soggy little 'country'

What matters for them when considering what drive to
buy is the turnarounds seen IN THEIR COUNTRY, stupid.

That's about the same as I heard from other companies.

Not relevant with a cross ship.

Not relevant since they don't cross ship either.

Pity that most of them do.

Luckily I had a spare drive lying around,
so it didn't really bother me much.

Yeah, I have full spare PCs so its really just a nuisance.

Its just another example of a terminal
stupidity in the way they operate tho.

I've always been into dealing with operations
that have got their act into gear on the detail.

Thats why I dont bother with Maxtor. We have
to ship the drive to Singapore using a receipted
delivery system if the seller of the drive has gone
bust, and thats not cheap at all. Bugger that. They
can shove their drives where the sun dont shine too.

So IBM/Hitachi stinks because they don't cross ship,

You did get that right.

Maxtor too.

They'll cross ship. The problem is what they
require to be used with the return of the failed
drive and the cost of doing it like that, stupid.

That means you won't like WD and Seagate either.

Wrong again.

No we have had all the major players in the harddisk market.

Pity you aint established that they wont cross ship TO ME.

Which harddisks do you use?

Varied over the years.

Currently I prefer Samsungs.

And when they've never had the balls to fess up to
what the problem was with the infamous GXP drives,

That was IBM :-)

Its only the OWNERSHIP that changed. The same monkeys
are largely involved in the design and manufacture of the drives.

Relax Rod, I know.
That's why I put the smiley there.

Duh.

Oh boy. Don't you know why people use smileys?

Just another of your pathetic little fantasys.

they can take their drives and shove them where
the sun dont shine as far as I am concerned.

I'll buy drives manufacturered by operations with a clue myself.

IBM hasn't been the only company which has had a bad model once.

Sure, but thats not the problem. The problem was that IBM
kept denying that there ever was a problem with those drives.

Let alone actually fessing up to what the problem actually was.

I find it VERY hard to believe that IBM never did manage to work
out what the problem was, and if they didnt, I wont be touching
any of the drives made by an operation that incompetant.

I find that hard to believe too.

Especially since it seems the internet
community had found a likely reason.

Nope.

Yes

Nope.

Seems like only a later production batch failed.

Wrong.

Not wrong

Completely wrong.

And even someone as stupid as you should be able
to grasp that if it was actually just a batch problem,
even IBM should have been able to work that out and
we wouldnt have seen 75GXPs RMAed and replaced
with another drive that went on to fail itself.

And even someone as stupid as you should be able to find
plenty of examples of that happening in this group alone.

All those review sites had early models and they still work fine.

Wrong. Plenty of those died too.

Not wrong.

Completely wrong.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to find
plenty of examples of that happening in this group alone.

My 75GXP still works fine too,

There's only ever been a single drive model where every
single copy failed in the field, made by that Indian operation.

Really?

Yes, really.

Which model might that have been then,
since that description does not fit the 75GXP.

Duh. It was a unique brand too. They only
made one model and every single one died.

I've got one lying around somewhere,
back in the low 100s of MB drive days.

but that was also an early model.

Thats irrelevant to failure rates.

It isn't.

Wrong. As always.

But there are lots of reasons (valid reasons from
their standpoint) why they will never admit that.

Then they can take their drives and
shove them where the sun dont shine.

(Problem with the 75GXP is that it also
happened to be an extremely popular model)

The problem was that IBM never did admit
that there was any problem with that model.

And kept shipping the suckers another 75GXP
when the first one was RMAed, which went on
to fail itself quite a bit of the time. Utterly obscene.

True. Although I have heard some people who said they
didn't want a 75GXP anymore, that got a new model.

Sure, but most were told to like it or lump it and what
appears to have happened is that even those stupids
eventually managed to work out that it made a lot
more sense to ship a different model instead. Pity it
took so long for them to come to their senses on that.

They people that were told to lump it were probably people
like you who can't discuss things like this in a normal way.

Even you should be able to manage better than that puerile stunt.

This like you have shown above that you can't act like a
grown up and continue this discussion in a normal way.

Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself eh ?

No wonder that operation went bust.

it didn't.

It did. It ended up a rat hole for money and IBM
flogged it off to the biggest sucker they could fined.

I've decided I don't want to buy another ATA drive.

The main problem currently is that there are few
native SATA drives buyable. Most are bridged drives.

Why would you care if a drive is native SATA?

Basically just a cleaner design. And thats got to be visible
in the price once the volume gets up to pata shipping levels.

Eventually that will be the case. But if right now a cleaner design
means a more expensive harddisk without any performance gain,

Wrong.

not wrong.

Completely wrong.

what do yuo expect the customers will do?

Most wont be silly enough to bother with sata for quite a while.

Guess dutch costumers are silly then,
because lot of hem already bother with sata.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able
to work out the difference between 'lot' and 'most'

The US is walking behind in this?

MOST certainly aint buying sata currently.

I see bridged drives which are faster
in every way then native drives.

Bull****. Drives are still doing what the physics allows.
The interface is irrelevant on speed with current drives.

Since when is the truth bull****?

When it aint 'the truth' and is actually just bull****.

Too bad for you that it is the truth in this case.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

But I've realised that you are not interested in
facts. So I won't bother you with them again.

Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of
your predicament better than that pathetic effort, child.

So I couldn't care less about native SATA drives.
The actual performance is what I find interesting.

You dont get any better performance with mechanically
identical drives which only differ in the interface used.

Ah, now I see what you shouted bull****.
You didn't understand what I meant.

Wrong. Again.

I see no indication that I am.

Thats because you've obviously wanked yourself blind.

You were warned about what that would do to your eyesight, child.

Then again you could be just a Troll
and now very well what I mean.

I could be the bogeyman too, chiid.

I was comparing harddisks that you can buy in stores.

So was I. There aint a single one where the sata
interface adds a damned thing to the performance,
because the pata version isnt pushing the pata interface.

I've given a link to a test on tech-report
that shows without a doubt that it does.

Like hell it does.

But again facts don't interest you. You'd rather live in the
little fantasy world in your head where that doesn't happen.

What a stunning mature and rational
approach you flaunt there, child.

(difficult to compare performance otherwise)

Duh.

And of those, the bridged models are faser than
the native models that another manufacturer makes.

Wrong again.

Not wrong.

Completely wrong.

Just look at the tests on dozens of review sites,

Which dont show anything like you claim they show.

or test them yourself. The facts are
there, for people that open their eyes.

You wouldnt know what a fact was if
one bit you on your lard arse, child.

Even with something as basic as what
drive manufacturers do cross ship RMAs.

But of course, if the drive is mechanically identical

And they always are currently with drives from a
particular manufacturer in sata and pata format.

and only the interface is different,
then bridges can never be faster.

And sata cant be faster than pata either.

Open your eyes Rod.

Let go of your dick, de Vries.

There IS a difference. You might not know WHY,
and I don't know either. But the fact is that there
is a very clear difference in those tests.

But not due to what you stupidly claim, child.

One advantage with sata drives is the cleaner cabling.

That's why I bought an sata raid5 controller.

Yep, there are a few situations where the
cleaner cabling system is more convenient.

Longer cables can be an advantage too,

Thats what I meant, both thinner and longer legally.

although most people will not
have had much problems with that.

Yep. The main problem is usually with the optical drives
on length and they arent mostly sata for other reasons yet.

One risk currently is that the technology isnt as mature.

Not how it is designed internally.

Thats what matters performance wise with hard drives.
Particuarly the basics physics of rpm, platter sizes,
numbers of platters etc for a particular capacity.

Of course all of that matters for the person designing
a new disk. And it matters to me as hardware
enthousiast, but it does not matter to me as buyer.

I just want a fast and silent disk for a good price.

No need for sata then.

And in making that choice I don't care if they used
pixie dust, or GMR heads or native sata or whatever.

Or sata either.

And that can mean that right now a bridged sata drive from
manufacturer A is faster cheaper and just as silent as a
native sata drive from manufacturer B. And I will buy from A.

Just as true of pata.

Of course. But the fact is that when I choose my new drives
the SATA version was clearly faster then the PATA version.

Pity it aint for the reason you claimed.

So the choice was easy.

Only if you're childishly focusing on very superficial
benchmarks that have no real relevance in the real
world with personal desktop systems.

In 6 months it might be the other way around. If I need
a new disk then, I will make a new choice, based on the
actual performace of the models that are available then.

Just as true of the interface too. Particularly when currently
there arent that many systems that have just sata ports.

Most new systems have them now.

Almost no new personal desktop
systems have JUST sata ports, stupid.

But in my case I needed to buy a raid5 controller
anyway, so that wasn't an easy. (unless it would
be much more expensive, which it wasn't)

Sure, sata can be handy in some situations,
particularly were there are a number of drives,
on the better approach to cabling alone, let
alone full hot swap support in the standard too.

Maybe by spring time I've be able to buy a BTX case and MB
and all SATA drives, including a writable SATA DVD/CD drive
(strange there aren't any SATA optical drives on the market yet).

Nothing strange about that.

Why not?

Optical drives dont even get within a bulls roar
of exploiting what the pata interface can do.

Current harddisks don't need the higher bandwith
of SATA either. Although there are some other
features of SATA that can be interesting.

Not with optical drives. There isnt
formal ATAPI support with sata yet.

Wrong.

Right.

There is aparantly formal atapi support with sata.

Wrong.

But there are serious issues with using atapi devices with sata
bridges. Those have also been raised with the T13 group:
http://www.t13.org/docs2003/e03131r0.pdf

Once again the standards on this are not
good enough to prevent issues like this.

Which is what I meant when I said that there isnt good enough
formal support for atapi in the sata standard yet, stupid.

The only real advantage is a cleaner cabling system.
That can be handy with bigger cases and optical drives.

That is usually the main reason people buy sata harddisks too.

Nope. Its mostly stupids buying the
latest thing because its the latest thing.

In your case, that yould probably be the reason yes.

Any 3 year old could do better than that pathetic effort, child.

I've already told you that I dont bother with
the latest stuff just because its the latest.

And I dont normally bother with the bleeding edge either,
just because there will normally be warts that still need to
be excised, just like there currently is with atapi and sata.

If that generates a big enough market for
harddisks, then why not for optical drives.

Mainly because ATAPI isnt formally part of sata yet.

That's not what T13 says.

Wrong. As always.

And the main downside is that there are few motherboards
with that many sata ports currently, not enough to be
able to handle the 4 drives of any type many want to have.

That could well be a reason.

Yeah, that clearly cripples the market
for sata optical drives currently.

I see no reason what that "clearly" cripples the market.

Maybe you actually are that stupid.

Lets go thru it very very slowly for the terminally stupid.

While ever very few personal desktop system
come with JUST sata ports, and while ever there
are still problems with atapi and sata, that has
to cripple the market for sata optical drives when
there isnt even any performance advantage possible.

Shouting something like that is easy.

Just as true of your mindless spew.

Now try to support that claim.

After you, child.

The advantages for SATA optical
drives are the same as for harddisks.

Nope, they dont get anywhere near
wringing out the pata interfaces now.

So which advantages are there for
harddisk that optical drives cannot use?

Its more the other way, lack of ATAPI currently,
and a perception of not much of a market while
most motherboards cant have purely sata drives.

- longer cables. Just as usefull for optical drives as for harddisks

More useful in fact with all cables going
from the drive to the motherboard directly.

Pity that few motherboards currently
have enough sata connectors tho.

A pity yes. Especially since those longer cables are
needed for people that want to place a optical drive
in the top 5,25" bay of their bigtower case.

Thats a pretty small market tho.

And while ever the much more important factor,
motherboard chipsets that allow JUST sata
ports isnt buyable, its hardly surprising that the
manufacturers of optical drives concentrate on
other things like supporting more DVD modes
etc and driving down the cost of their drives
particularly with burners so that cost of the drive
become low enough that few hesitate to buy one.

- cleaner cables. Just as usefull for optical drives
- faster. Not important for optical drives, but not really important
for harddisks either. Even with two modern disks on 1 pata cable
you won't find a slowdown. Unless you use the most extreme worst
case scenario you can design in a benchmark.

Yep, but hard drives are close to needing that than
optical drives. Which is why ATAPI isnt in sata yet.

But in that case you are usually also hitting
the limit of the 33Mhz/32bit PCI interface.

Nope, because most hard drives dont use that.

That is only true when they are connected directly
to the southbridge without using pci in between.

Which just happens to be how most hard drives
in personal desktop systems are connected.

This NOT the case for the majority of motherboards.

Bull**** with new personal desktop systems.

And those that do it the other way clearly arent worried
about the performance downsides of that approach
and are just the cheap end of motherboards, for users
that likely wouldnt even noticed any performance
difference at all, because of the way they use their PCs.

- there are features like tagged command queueing
in sata which is mainly important for harddisks, but
support for that isn't common in harddisks yet.

You dont need sata for that, its been available
in pata for years now. And is hardly used at all.

- there are also some other features in sata that make
a sata Maxtor Diamondmax9 clearly faster then a pata
Maxtor Diamondmax 9 which uses a mechanical identical drive.

Bull****.

I know realises that this is your standards answer
when you are confronted with facts you don't like.

Not a clue. As always.

But that same advantage is not visible with the Baracuda V.

More bull****.

again that your standard answer

Again, not a clue. As always.

So I don't know what is causing that.

Its a fantasy.

You are calling the people from tech-report liars?

Nope.

Give me one reason why I should not believe their test,

Never said you shouldnt, child.

but should believe a person in a newsgroup
who can only answer with the word bull****.

More of your pathological lying.

Especially since this results can also
be seen in other tests on other sites.

Which dont actually show what YOU claim they show.

But don't let that bother you.
Just call them all liars too.

I've only ever called you a liar in this thread, child.

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2...o/index.x?pg=6

Please add the other advantages you see, because this list
doesn't seem to warrant the lack of optical sata drives imo.

Lack of ATAPI does. And the lack of enough sata ports too.

I think there would be a market for it by now?

Nope, because there arent many
motherboard with JUST sata ports.

What about the reason that others have offered
that lost of sata adapters just don't have support
for sata atapi devices in their software?

Yep, another important factor.

You know anything more about that?

What is there to know ? atapi isnt part of sata yet.

I suggest you read the specs on sata again.

No need.

But that advice will probably fall on deaf ears.

Better than blind eyes I spose.

You are clearly not capable of discussing these matters as
a civilized person, but instead start acting like a 5 year old kid.

Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself do you child ?

I am not going to waste my time on people that behave like that.

You just did, child.

You can continu this thread without me.

Great, there is only so much pathetic excuse for bull****
and childish antics anyone should have to put up with.

Dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out, child.