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#11
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Computer Eating Keyboards
On May 22, 8:14 am, "Z" wrote:
I have a client that has a Emachines computer. Over the past 5 days their computer has killed 3 keyboards. The 2nd dead keyboard worked for a day, then the next day input 2 characters for each key pressed then died on the 3rd day. I have never seen anything like this. I do not recieve any errors from bios or windows. Should I just swap the motherboard? Thanks Emachines=Evil. What happens more often is the power supply dies and takes the motherboard with it. I'd change the PSU on general principles. I've seen dozens of e-corpses with dead motherboards and power supplies. |
#12
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Computer Eating Keyboards
"Z" wrote in message
... "kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:14:06 -0400, "Z" wrote: I have a client that has a Emachines computer. Over the past 5 days their computer has killed 3 keyboards. The 2nd dead keyboard worked for a day, then the next day input 2 characters for each key pressed then died on the 3rd day. I have never seen anything like this. I do not recieve any errors from bios or windows. Should I just swap the motherboard? Thanks Insufficient info. When there are two characters it is most often a keyboard contact problem (like liquid in it). Is the environment very very humid or it is possible they keep dumping liquid in? Have these keyboards been tried on other systems to confirm they are bad? Are they the same keyboard, perhaps you have a (Manufacturing run) lot of them with a particular problem? What about other devices on same (PS2 or USB?) port, do those work? Yes if you can rule out environment and the keyboards themselves, the motherboard remains a prime suspect. The business is a muffler/auto repair shop and these computers get Real Nasty with a black dust. I try to keep them clean and isolated, but parts fail on them pretty regularly. Maybe this dust is conductive and some has got into the keyboard port on the motherboard. Try giving that port a good clean before plugging in a new keyboard. |
#13
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Computer Eating Keyboards
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:18:51 -0400, "Z" wrote: The business is a muffler/auto repair shop and these computers get Real Nasty with a black dust. I try to keep them clean and isolated, but parts fail on them pretty regularly. This is most likely the problem. You need keyboard covers at the very least or if that is insufficient, industrial sealed keyboards. You might also recommend to the shop that they may be in violation of health standards and should consider an air cleaner if it isn't solely being deposited by dirty hands (but if it is, employees washing their hands would help too). Since most factors are not directly under your control, I suggest buying a bulk pack of keyboards with a config you can find a keyboard cover for, so the keyboards last a bit longer then if it acts up the cover is washed and the next keyboard is installed. The system might be in sad shape from this as well, given enough metallic dust it could theoretically short out the USB port but since the keyboards appear to work otherwise (when first plugged in, new), it tends to suggest only keyboard failure at this point. Thanks for the info. I think I'll try Mike's suggestion of a USB keyboard as this would be cheaper than a motherboard. I don't expect that to matter, unless the particular keyboard just happened to be sealed better or designed different. Note that waterproof types might help but spillproof/leak-resistant may not, as the latter can mean they only molded some channeling and put drain holes in which is not sufficient but for some kinds of small water spills. Well, the problem seems to definitely be more widespread. I installed a USB keyboard and it worked great on first boot. The both it and the mouse(PS/2) stopped working. THEN, their parallel dongle(For their Alldata parts software) stopped working. At that point I moved their shop database to their other computer and shut the bad one down. I'm ordering a replacement motherboard in the morning and will give the rest a thorough cleaning. I had your post in mind when I went back to the shop this morning. I watched several of their mechanics come in, grab an Alldata DVD(The package contains a dozen or so DVD's each covering a range of auto makers/vehicle types/years) and pop it into the computer. I actually saw the dust pop off their hands onto the DVD's as they placed them in the computer, must be static. If anyone has any suggestions on affordable 'industrial' PC cases/hardware I'd like to hear them. I'm usually pretty good at finding thing on Google, but all I've come across is hyper-expensive/rack mount blocks that really don't fit their needs. I did find one possible solution that I am pursuing. They gave me an 8"x6" auto air filter. I bought a 4" 115v fan from Radio Shack and bought wood, flexible gutter elbow and attachments at Home Depot(~$34 in parts). I'm going to build a fan/filter system that pumps through the filter and into the back of the PC. Supposedly this will filter all incoming air and create a 'positive air pressure' in the case so that all other holes in the case push air and dust away from the computer. I'll update next week and a few months out on the filter system. I think they also need to keep some handiwipes right next to the main shop computer. I've cleaned enough bottoms with those, hopefully they work as well on shop dust Thanks to all for the info/tips. Chris |
#14
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Computer Eating Keyboards
I did find one possible solution that I am pursuing. They gave me an 8"x6" auto air filter. I bought a 4" 115v fan from Radio Shack and bought wood, flexible gutter elbow and attachments at Home Depot(~$34 in parts). I'm going to build a fan/filter system that pumps through the filter and into the back of the PC. Supposedly this will filter all incoming air and create a 'positive air pressure' in the case so that all other holes in the case push air and dust away from the computer. Better yet... Get an external drive and put the PC into a clean environment. Use mouse/keyboard/optical drive with long cables. Even better if you could image the optical disks onto the hard drive. |
#15
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Computer Eating Keyboards
Z wrote:
"kony" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 May 2007 12:18:51 -0400, "Z" wrote: The business is a muffler/auto repair shop and these computers get Real Nasty with a black dust. I try to keep them clean and isolated, but parts fail on them pretty regularly. This is most likely the problem. You need keyboard covers at the very least or if that is insufficient, industrial sealed keyboards. You might also recommend to the shop that they may be in violation of health standards and should consider an air cleaner if it isn't solely being deposited by dirty hands (but if it is, employees washing their hands would help too). Since most factors are not directly under your control, I suggest buying a bulk pack of keyboards with a config you can find a keyboard cover for, so the keyboards last a bit longer then if it acts up the cover is washed and the next keyboard is installed. The system might be in sad shape from this as well, given enough metallic dust it could theoretically short out the USB port but since the keyboards appear to work otherwise (when first plugged in, new), it tends to suggest only keyboard failure at this point. Thanks for the info. I think I'll try Mike's suggestion of a USB keyboard as this would be cheaper than a motherboard. I don't expect that to matter, unless the particular keyboard just happened to be sealed better or designed different. Note that waterproof types might help but spillproof/leak-resistant may not, as the latter can mean they only molded some channeling and put drain holes in which is not sufficient but for some kinds of small water spills. Well, the problem seems to definitely be more widespread. I installed a USB keyboard and it worked great on first boot. The both it and the mouse(PS/2) stopped working. THEN, their parallel dongle(For their Alldata parts software) stopped working. At that point I moved their shop database to their other computer and shut the bad one down. I'm ordering a replacement motherboard in the morning and will give the rest a thorough cleaning. I had your post in mind when I went back to the shop this morning. I watched several of their mechanics come in, grab an Alldata DVD(The package contains a dozen or so DVD's each covering a range of auto makers/vehicle types/years) and pop it into the computer. I actually saw the dust pop off their hands onto the DVD's as they placed them in the computer, must be static. If anyone has any suggestions on affordable 'industrial' PC cases/hardware I'd like to hear them. I'm usually pretty good at finding thing on Google, but all I've come across is hyper-expensive/rack mount blocks that really don't fit their needs. I did find one possible solution that I am pursuing. They gave me an 8"x6" auto air filter. I bought a 4" 115v fan from Radio Shack and bought wood, flexible gutter elbow and attachments at Home Depot(~$34 in parts). I'm going to build a fan/filter system that pumps through the filter and into the back of the PC. Supposedly this will filter all incoming air and create a 'positive air pressure' in the case so that all other holes in the case push air and dust away from the computer. I'll update next week and a few months out on the filter system. I think they also need to keep some handiwipes right next to the main shop computer. I've cleaned enough bottoms with those, hopefully they work as well on shop dust Thanks to all for the info/tips. Chris Get out the multimeter, and check the +5V and +5VSB coming from the PSU. I can understand a bad PS/2 port and/or a bad keyboard causing indigestion for one another. But why would two different interface types have failures ? To me, the common element, is a supply rail out of spec. For the DVDs, there are several solutions. Buy them a dozen DVD drives and leave the DVDs loaded. Use software to mount ISO copies of the DVD. Or, if the Alldata software allows it, copy the DVDs to the hard drive. A filtered air supply is a great idea, but who is going to clean the filter ? Zalman makes a couple of enclosures that can do away with fans. It helps if the computer parts inside it, are not high power "gamer" parts. This review is for a box that can hold a microATX 9.6"x9.6" motherboard. Their concept is to use heatpipes, to move heat from hot components inside, to the sides of the computer case. TNN300 case - about $600 or so: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article302-page1.html Paul |
#16
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Computer Eating Keyboards
On Thu, 24 May 2007 00:18:55 -0400, "Z" wrote:
Well, the problem seems to definitely be more widespread. I installed a USB keyboard and it worked great on first boot. The both it and the mouse(PS/2) stopped working. THEN, their parallel dongle(For their Alldata parts software) stopped working. At that point I moved their shop database to their other computer and shut the bad one down. I'm ordering a replacement motherboard in the morning and will give the rest a thorough cleaning. I had your post in mind when I went back to the shop this morning. I watched several of their mechanics come in, grab an Alldata DVD(The package contains a dozen or so DVD's each covering a range of auto makers/vehicle types/years) and pop it into the computer. I actually saw the dust pop off their hands onto the DVD's as they placed them in the computer, must be static. First I recommend that they not handle these DVDs. Rip them to a hard drive as ISO and use an emulation program like Daemon Tools to access these ISO stored on the system (or store the ISOs on a central fileserver, we dont' know how elaborate this setup is. They just should not be handling and inserting media while covered in metallic dust, and they would probably love that they no longer have to fool around with popping in DVDs, though it will take a minor amount of training for them to start using a shortcut already present instead of loading the DVD each time. If anyone has any suggestions on affordable 'industrial' PC cases/hardware I'd like to hear them. I'm usually pretty good at finding thing on Google, but all I've come across is hyper-expensive/rack mount blocks that really don't fit their needs. Well it won't be cheap... that's what happens when an industrial, niche product. We don't know anything about this scenario, like amount of space available for the case or if they could move it or make more room for it or anything like t hat. It's not like there's one page with every industrial case on it, but they're out there... you are the only one who knows what limitations there are as industrial cases generally aren't just same size and shape as they'd be if it were a case for Joe Average's Gaming system. If you want to keep them out of the DVD drive, a lockable 2 or 3U rack case might not be such a bad idea. I did find one possible solution that I am pursuing. They gave me an 8"x6" auto air filter. I bought a 4" 115v fan from Radio Shack and bought wood, flexible gutter elbow and attachments at Home Depot(~$34 in parts). Might I suggest that you increase the filter size (or use two), use a DC fan instead of AC (safety concerns, remember someone else may eventually fiddle with this or bump it or who-knows-what and you might be liable for tack-on circuits like this. I suggest not using wood or gutter elbow and similar things. Take a case which has the drive bay not attached to the bottom 1/3rd of the front metal wall of the case. Cut a hole in that metal to accomodate a 120mm x 38mm (not 25.4mm!) thick fan. The fan is mounted to the inside of that metal wall. Get some foam adhesive backed weatherstripping from the hardware store. With it, create an airtight border around the inside of the case bezel, that entire front panel. Depending on how it's made and shaped you may need to vary the application of the foam but basically just stick it on such that it extends past the edge and is compressed slightly when the bezel is placed back on the metal chassis. Also take a piece of high density foam cut to shape and liberally contact cement it toward the middle of the bezel to form another pocket of trapped air right in front of the fan. Finally, cut out a large rectangular hole in the bottom front of the bezel. The dimensions of this hole will be about 1" narrower and 1" shorter than the dimensions of the filter material. The extra 1/2" overlap on each side is so you can mount the filter. To mount it, get some aluminum angle from a hardware store. Dimensions like 1/2" x 1/2" and 1/8" thick should be about right but the specifics of the application might make a different size more wieldy. Measure and cut the channel into the sides and bottom of a channel to hold the filter(s). The top is left open so the filters can be slid in and out, or if the filter gaskets are thick enough to hold them in place well against gravity, you could leave the bottom off the frame instead of the top. So this channeled frame bolts to the case bezel, with the filters out in front where they can see when they get dirty and replace them. Don't forget to put a fan grill on the front of the 120mm fan. I'm going to build a fan/filter system that pumps through the filter and into the back of the PC. It might work but since most cases were designed to have air intake in the front, and exhaust out the rear of the PSU, it seems more likely this will create a short loop where the heated PSU exhaust is slow to mix with the ambient air due to location and a higher % is drawn back into the system. It would require a higher airflow rate to achieve same average system temp. On the other hand, getting everything out of the front of the system and having it either sealed or as an exhaust would reduce dirt/dust/etc buildup on the filter, "Maybe" (hard to say without knowing the environment and exact configurations possible within that environment. It would certainly be pretty noisey to have a high level of filtration and thin ductwork. You might move away from axial fans and use a radial fan (like squirrel cage type, a larger size as a lot of ducting and filtering will require more than a little 4" fan unless it's spinning so fast it is very loud. Supposedly this will filter all incoming air and create a 'positive air pressure' in the case so that all other holes in the case push air and dust away from the computer. yes that is the general idea, you just have to make sure the intake fan actually does push more air than the existing fans (usually chassis and PSU rear) are exhausting. In other words, be sure to test the positive pressurization and that it is enough, not just a slight pressurization as the pressure level changes as the filter gets clogged with dust, moving from more positive to less positive pressure in the case, even going to negative pressure once the filter is clogged enough. I'll update next week and a few months out on the filter system. I think they also need to keep some handiwipes right next to the main shop computer. I've cleaned enough bottoms with those, hopefully they work as well on shop dust The other common option is that you put the system in a cabinet. I mean airtight with an intake and exhaust port wherever it's necessary and then that intake is filtered. System is just as it always was, but cleaned out, and protected behind the sealed and filtered cabinet. There are quite a few industrial cases like this, but that's not a hard thing to build youself out of plywood or thicker plexiglass/polycarbonate/etc, so long as they don't need to use the DVD drive anymore, and if they need be able to turn system off/on, of course a remotely mounted switch on the cabinet. You might also look at what options there are to reduce total heat levels in the system. Lower heat requires less airflow, results in less actively drawn in dust. |
#17
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Computer Eating Keyboards
"Paul" wrote in message ... A filtered air supply is a great idea, but who is going to clean the filter ? They are not going to 'clean' the filter, they will replace it with one off their parts shelf; kinda the beauty of the design, attach an auto filter to a computer at an auto shop and it starts to make sense to them. I'm partially done with my air filter contraption and am so far happy with it. I promise to update with my results. Chris |
#18
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Computer Eating Keyboards
Z wrote:
I have a client that has a Emachines computer. Over the past 5 days their computer has killed 3 keyboards. The 2nd dead keyboard worked for a day, then the next day input 2 characters for each key pressed then died on the 3rd day. I have never seen anything like this. I do not recieve any errors from bios or windows. Should I just swap the motherboard? Thanks May the ps2 connnector is faulty. Try a USB keyboard. |
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