Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What case should I buy?

On 6 Feb 2007 11:46:37 -0800, "k" wrote:

On Feb 6, 8:02 pm, kony wrote:
On 6 Feb 2007 00:15:00 -0800, "k" wrote:

Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all?

It depends on what you're trying to build, how cool the room
is, and how long you need it to last.

What
case should I buy?

One with fans.

Getting rid of fans is seldom the correct solution for a
silent computer. Extremely expensive solutions do exist
that claim to do it, but they only factor for immediate
stability, not longer term use of consumer grade PC parts.
The correct solution is the same as always, choosing a
reasonably ventilated case (it is not as though there is
only one you could choose, there are many) so far as
unobstructed air passages, choosing moderate to lower
power/heat parts, and very low RPM fans.

If you can hear very low RPM fans in a relatively quiet
room, the problem is not that there are fans, it's either
the poor quality of the fan or the case (or fan mount)
design. If you really, truely need a "silent" system then
I would suspect you would have specified the reason and
environment in which it is necessary, as people usually do
if they had a specific reason like near a mic in a studio.

Thanks kony for your reply!
The room is cool. I need the computer to work at night at my room to
download through e-mule.
Best regards,
Dima

In a typical "light gaming" system, there are 5 main
components that need addressed the most.

1) Video card has larger aftermarket heatsink with low RPM
fan. Some are more exotic and even have heat pipes...
whether you actually need them depends on the card you
choose, the hotter it is, the more expensive the
aftermarketk 'sink will need be to remove heat with only low
RPM fan (low meaning sub-1800 RPM at full (GPU) load.

2) Motherboard chipset has a passive 'sink, or you add your
own custom 'sink, not an original 'sink with fan.

3) CPU heatsink bought separately, often with heat pipes,
always with a 92mm or larger, sub-3000 RPM (varies some per
design and your threshold for noise) fan, that is further
reduced in speed by the motherboard in response to a thermal
sensor... so it's usually running under 1400 RPM, even under
900 RPM when CPU is idle if it then runs at all.

4) Case with large passive intake in front and the drive
rack completely encloses this intake area forcing all intake
through the drive rack. This (with an otherwise good,
complimentary case design) eliminates the need for any front
case fans even with multiple HDDs, so long as they have a
bit of space between them in the rack. Couple that with a
120mm rear exhaust fan throttled down to lowest RPM
possible, typically sub-1000 RPM, with ony a wire grill
behind it, not a stamped-metal grill.

5) PSU with a little excess capacity over what the system
needs such that it is designed to be able to withstand a
higher heat generation, thus allowing it's 120mm fan to spin
at low RPM during normal system loads. Seek reviews of any
PSU you consider.

The idea is that in a well constructed case, a quality fan
that is well balanced (so it doesn't transmit vibrations to
the case much) at very low RPM will have very low noise to
begin with, and along with an effort to minimize turbulence
the majority of the case is either trapped within the case,
or with the case rear fan and PSU fan, it is directed away
from the user's ears and further away than the front of the
system.

You might need to create your own fan speed controller, buy
one ready-made, or use a simplier method of RPM reduction
such as a series of diodes or a current limiting resistor to
reduce some fans to a low enough RPM, for example the rear
case fan. It also helps to start out with a fan spec'd by
the manufacturer for lower RPM. For example a fan spec'd
for 1600 RPM @ 12V will respond better to many types of RPM
reduction than one spec'd for 3000 RPM. The lower speed fan
will run smoother (all else being equal) at the very low
target RPM you'd want for maximum noise reduction.

If possible avoid any ball bearing fans running over 1000
RPM, with a couple of possible exceptions to increase the
lifespan of the fan(s)- on the video card and on a PSU
exhaust, if you chose a PSU with a rear exhaust rather than
a bottom-mounted (120mm, typically) intake with passive
exhaust holes in the back.

On Feb 7, 12:31 am, kony wrote:
On 6 Feb 2007 11:46:37 -0800, "k" wrote:





On Feb 6, 8:02 pm, kony wrote:
On 6 Feb 2007 00:15:00 -0800, "k" wrote:

Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all?

It depends on what you're trying to build, how cool the room
is, and how long you need it to last.

What
case should I buy?

One with fans.

Getting rid of fans is seldom the correct solution for a
silent computer. Extremely expensive solutions do exist
that claim to do it, but they only factor for immediate
stability, not longer term use of consumer grade PC parts.
The correct solution is the same as always, choosing a
reasonably ventilated case (it is not as though there is
only one you could choose, there are many) so far as
unobstructed air passages, choosing moderate to lower
power/heat parts, and very low RPM fans.

If you can hear very low RPM fans in a relatively quiet
room, the problem is not that there are fans, it's either
the poor quality of the fan or the case (or fan mount)
design. If you really, truely need a "silent" system then
I would suspect you would have specified the reason and
environment in which it is necessary, as people usually do
if they had a specific reason like near a mic in a studio.

Thanks kony for your reply!
The room is cool. I need the computer to work at night at my room to
download through e-mule.
Best regards,
Dima

In a typical "light gaming" system, there are 5 main
components that need addressed the most.

1) Video card has larger aftermarket heatsink with low RPM
fan. Some are more exotic and even have heat pipes...
whether you actually need them depends on the card you
choose, the hotter it is, the more expensive the
aftermarketk 'sink will need be to remove heat with only low
RPM fan (low meaning sub-1800 RPM at full (GPU) load.

2) Motherboard chipset has a passive 'sink, or you add your
own custom 'sink, not an original 'sink with fan.

3) CPU heatsink bought separately, often with heat pipes,
always with a 92mm or larger, sub-3000 RPM (varies some per
design and your threshold for noise) fan, that is further
reduced in speed by the motherboard in response to a thermal
sensor... so it's usually running under 1400 RPM, even under
900 RPM when CPU is idle if it then runs at all.

4) Case with large passive intake in front and the drive
rack completely encloses this intake area forcing all intake
through the drive rack. This (with an otherwise good,
complimentary case design) eliminates the need for any front
case fans even with multiple HDDs, so long as they have a
bit of space between them in the rack. Couple that with a
120mm rear exhaust fan throttled down to lowest RPM
possible, typically sub-1000 RPM, with ony a wire grill
behind it, not a stamped-metal grill.

5) PSU with a little excess capacity over what the system
needs such that it is designed to be able to withstand a
higher heat generation, thus allowing it's 120mm fan to spin
at low RPM during normal system loads. Seek reviews of any
PSU you consider.

The idea is that in a well constructed case, a quality fan
that is well balanced (so it doesn't transmit vibrations to
the case much) at very low RPM will have very low noise to
begin with, and along with an effort to minimize turbulence
the majority of the case is either trapped within the case,
or with the case rear fan and PSU fan, it is directed away
from the user's ears and further away than the front of the
system.

You might need to create your own fan speed controller, buy
one ready-made, or use a simplier method of RPM reduction
such as a series of diodes or a current limiting resistor to
reduce some fans to a low enough RPM, for example the rear
case fan. It also helps to start out with a fan spec'd by
the manufacturer for lower RPM. For example a fan spec'd
for 1600 RPM @ 12V will respond better to many types of RPM
reduction than one spec'd for 3000 RPM. The lower speed fan
will run smoother (all else being equal) at the very low
target RPM you'd want for maximum noise reduction.

If possible avoid any ball bearing fans running over 1000
RPM, with a couple of possible exceptions to increase the
lifespan of the fan(s)- on the video card and on a PSU
exhaust, if you chose a PSU with a rear exhaust rather than
a bottom-mounted (120mm, typically) intake with passive
exhaust holes in the back.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks kony for your message!

"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What
case should I buy?
Best regards,
Dima
+790350938


I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.

Luck;
Ken

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all?
I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.

Obviously a DVD drive makes a noise when you use it, but what about your PSU
fan and hard disk?

Ken Maltby wrote:
"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What
case should I buy?
Best regards,
Dima
+790350938


I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.

Luck;
Ken


I once built a system with a heavily damped case and dryer vent hose
to carry the hot air and noise elsewhere. Wasn't silent, but was a
lot quieter than before. Got tired of tripping over the hose and
switched to a laptop who's fan didn't run much.
mike

On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 05:49:53 -0600, "Ken Maltby"
wrote:


"k" wrote in message
roups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What
case should I buy?
Best regards,
Dima
+790350938


I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.


How did you deal with heat from parts that can't have water
blocks (reasonably, as-in ready-made) installed like mobo
power regulation subcircuit, PSU, and (less common but
still possible) HDDs?

Anything generating hertz needs a place to go to disperse the stuff that
doesn't ground. Forced Air is by far the greatest winner. liquid doesn't get
close enough as of yet, only via a second route near the source. A good old
heatsink and even a slow fan on a big enough heatsink is as far as I would
risk it. The MHZ now GHZ is alot to keep calm. They ship out those crazy
loud fans for more than lack of knowledge but for the cheap expense.Smaller
computer gadgets, with small footprint literally change to low volts and
clock rates to stay calm. home users pc chips do not have that option unless
you build mobile for a home box.
This is based on fact. I had a metal plate in my foot for years and
proceeded to dive into some rather bizarre conversations about pc
emmissions... Air away from pc operator is good. It is about all one can do.
The expense for the silence is huge and ridiculous, a large heatsink and
slow fan is cheap, replacable and easy to live with. My current "hot tamale"
is a 2.8e HT on 3 fans for a year now peacefully, the fastest fan still
silent at 1700 rpm max when pc straining on a thermaltake large heatsink
getting air sucked away from the system out the back via ductwork. 50 bucks
and silent. I would love a better way, haven't found one yet...
Do not go extreme for silent cooling, it is just not worth it.

kony wrote:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 05:49:53 -0600, "Ken Maltby"
wrote:


"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What
case should I buy?
Best regards,
Dima
+790350938


I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.


How did you deal with heat from parts that can't have water
blocks (reasonably, as-in ready-made) installed like mobo
power regulation subcircuit, PSU, and (less common but
still possible) HDDs?

Those are normally adequately cooled by convection if the room temp doesnt get too high.

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 06:27:47 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

kony wrote:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 05:49:53 -0600, "Ken Maltby"
wrote:


"k" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello!
Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all? What
case should I buy?
Best regards,
Dima
+790350938


I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for
everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.


How did you deal with heat from parts that can't have water
blocks (reasonably, as-in ready-made) installed like mobo
power regulation subcircuit, PSU, and (less common but
still possible) HDDs?

Those are normally adequately cooled by convection if the room temp doesnt get too high.


False, mobo power reg subcircuit relies on passive cooling
but not convection, rather the expected chassis airflow.
One could use a water block on their CPU, etc, but not to
eliminate all fans and create the "true silent system" by
that approach.

A CPU, northbridge or video card fan can be less audible
than a chassis fan, because the chassis can trap the
majority of the noise produced. Less audible even means
inaudible. The chassis fan on the other hand is, in any
normal system opposed to some exotic servers where it's a
puller mid-system _behind_ the drive rack, is mounted on a
case wall where a large % of the noise directly escapes that
chassis. Thus, if one were talking about elimination of
noise by elimination of fans, (which is a false premise
since noise is by any reasonable standard, the _audible_
noise perceived) it would require elimination of chassis
fans more than internal component fans. That will not allow
devices designed to be cooled in an active chassis to remain
cool enough otherwise - including practically all *PC*
motherboards.

As for PSU, what kind of silly delusion is it to think
they'll be ok passively? Take your average PSU, unplug the
fan and DO let us know how it's doing in a few days. HDDs,
if they were the only source of heat they might be ok cooled
by convection but when installed in a non-ventilated case,
the ambient case temp rises, enough that the room would have
to be quite cool, not a typical environment at all.

kony wrote
Rod Speed wrote
kony wrote
Ken Maltby wrote
k wrote

Is it possible to build a silent computer, without fans at all?
What case should I buy?

I have a true silent system, but it would not be practical for everyone.

It is water cooled and I have used 1/2" PVC piping to carry
the water from the room with this PC to another room in the
house. The water pump, fan, and radiator are in the other
room, and can't be heard.

How did you deal with heat from parts that can't have water
blocks (reasonably, as-in ready-made) installed like mobo
power regulation subcircuit, PSU, and (less common but
still possible) HDDs?

Those are normally adequately cooled by
convection if the room temp doesnt get too high.

False,

Nope.

mobo power reg subcircuit relies on passive cooling
but not convection, rather the expected chassis airflow.

Wrong, as always. Have fun explaining how it works fine with no chassis airflow.

One could use a water block on their CPU, etc, but not to eliminate
all fans and create the "true silent system" by that approach.

Wrong, as always.

A CPU, northbridge or video card fan can be less audible than
a chassis fan, because the chassis can trap the majority of the
noise produced. Less audible even means inaudible.

Irrelevant to whether fanless is perfectly possible.

The chassis fan on the other hand is, in any normal system
opposed to some exotic servers where it's a puller mid-system
_behind_ the drive rack, is mounted on a case wall where a
large % of the noise directly escapes that chassis.

Irrelevant to whether fanless is perfectly possible.

Thus, if one were talking about elimination of noise by
elimination of fans, (which is a false premise since noise
is by any reasonable standard, the _audible_ noise perceived)

Irrelevant to whether fanless is perfectly possible.

it would require elimination of chassis
fans more than internal component fans.

Irrelevant to whether fanless is perfectly possible.

That will not allow devices designed to be cooled
in an active chassis to remain cool enough otherwise
- including practically all *PC* motherboards.

Pig ignorant silly stuff, as always from you.

As for PSU, what kind of silly delusion
is it to think they'll be ok passively?

Perfectly possible to DESIGN one fanless, child.

Take your average PSU, unplug the fan and
DO let us know how it's doing in a few days.

Perfectly possible to DESIGN one fanless, child.

HDDs, if they were the only source of heat
they might be ok cooled by convection

No might about it, child.

but when installed in a non-ventilated case,

No need to do that, child.

the ambient case temp rises, enough that the room would
have to be quite cool, not a typical environment at all.

Perfectly possible to leave the covers off, child.