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#1
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
Have had an inexpensive Gigabyte MB and AMD Sempron sitting around a
year or so. Finally put the mem, cpu, and dvd to it -- and see in the (rudimentary) BIOS a provision for something along "turn on virtual" machines. In the MB book it says something basic about OS that support virtual machines. Guessing offhandidly that "could be" for dual cores. Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. Oh, boy -- a curveball! Now, if I get lucky I can test whether mine will unlock, real lucky - for a semi-stable, theoretical, free core. An existing XP single-core install can't be shifted over to a new machine, a dually, (hopefully) slipped the new MB drivers and once working (FU- kludged-BAR), to turn on that BIOS switch, hmmmm... Just asking (a dream come true, when what "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). |
#2
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
"Flasherly" wrote in message
... Have had an inexpensive Gigabyte MB and AMD Sempron sitting around a year or so. Finally put the mem, cpu, and dvd to it -- and see in the (rudimentary) BIOS a provision for something along "turn on virtual" machines. In the MB book it says something basic about OS that support virtual machines. Guessing offhandidly that "could be" for dual cores. Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. Oh, boy -- a curveball! Now, if I get lucky I can test whether mine will unlock, real lucky - for a semi-stable, theoretical, free core. An existing XP single-core install can't be shifted over to a new machine, a dually, (hopefully) slipped the new MB drivers and once working (FU- kludged-BAR), to turn on that BIOS switch, hmmmm... Just asking (a dream come true, when what "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). I think it's as easy as running msconfig, hitting the 'boot ini' tab, click on the 'advanced options' and choosing the '/procnum' that are available. Getting that second core unlocked so that XP sees it's available is another question. -- Jan Alter |
#3
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
Flasherly wrote:
Have had an inexpensive Gigabyte MB and AMD Sempron sitting around a year or so. Finally put the mem, cpu, and dvd to it -- and see in the (rudimentary) BIOS a provision for something along "turn on virtual" machines. In the MB book it says something basic about OS that support virtual machines. Guessing offhandidly that "could be" for dual cores. Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. Oh, boy -- a curveball! Now, if I get lucky I can test whether mine will unlock, real lucky - for a semi-stable, theoretical, free core. An existing XP single-core install can't be shifted over to a new machine, a dually, (hopefully) slipped the new MB drivers and once working (FU- kludged-BAR), to turn on that BIOS switch, hmmmm... Just asking (a dream come true, when what "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). You're mixing a couple concepts together here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization "In computing, x86 virtualization is the facility that allows multiple operating systems to simultaneously share x86 processor resources in a safe and efficient manner" "AMD virtualization (AMD-V)" Pacifica "Intel virtualization (VT-x)" Vanderpool "I/O MMU virtualization (AMD-Vi and VT-d)" Your BIOS setting, could have been turning on/off the Pacifica. To give an example, I have a copy of Microsoft VirtualPC I run a lot. I can run a copy of Linux or Windows, inside VirtualPC, while my regular OS (WinXP) is running. In testing it, I discovered that hardware virtualization support (can be turned on and off in VirtualPC) makes no difference at all. What it does make a difference in, is some Linux LiveCD distros, *crash* depending on the setting used, because the Linux software tries to "guess" whether it is in a virtual environment or not. ******* The other concept, is core unlocking. Or multicore operation. If you go to Device Manager, (devmgmt.msc), and select the Computer entry, and do Properties on it, it'll say something like "ACPI Uniprocessor PC". That uses one core. If you enabled a second core, and left that setting as is, I don't think the second core would be used. If you do a "driver update" on the computer entry, you may be shown which HAL types are eligible candidates. For example, promotion to "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" can use more than one core. To work best, it helps if interrupts are steered with APIC, as even interrupts can be steered by the OS, to a particular core, for best load sharing. I think it's possible, that you could leave the Multiprocessor HAL in place, even if switching back to a single core. What you have to be careful of, is the "ACPI" part of the Computer entry in Device Manager. If you disable ACPI in the BIOS, you can force the OS to respond, by changing the HAL. And then, it will be difficult or impossible to fix. So the transition between "ACPI Uniprocessor PC" and "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" is relatively easy. Whereas, if you find "Standard PC" is the HAL value in the computer entry, you're in much more trouble. (The last time that happened to me, I did a Repair Install.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_abstraction_layer "hide differences in hardware from most of the operating system kernel" ******* To do core unlocking, you need BIOS support. Perhaps even chipset support. This is called "Advanced Clock Calibration" or ACC. This was introduced with a particular AMD Southbridge. I think perhaps even Nvidia managed to include support on one of their Southbridge chips. Later, it was included on other motherboards, but whether it still needs particular Southbridges, I'm not sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700...ck_Calibration AMD also has the option of disabling that entirely. Most likely, by just removing the core and making the silicon die smaller. It all depends on whether they feel this feature, reduces demand for their slightly more expensive processors. When you enable a second core, it must be tested thoroughly for stability. I would do that with a Linux LiveCD, rather than messing up Windows immediately. Paul |
#4
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
On Jul 27, 12:46 pm, "Jan Alter" wrote:
"Flasherly" wrote in message ... Have had an inexpensive Gigabyte MB and AMD Sempron sitting around a year or so. Finally put the mem, cpu, and dvd to it -- and see in the (rudimentary) BIOS a provision for something along "turn on virtual" machines. In the MB book it says something basic about OS that support virtual machines. Guessing offhandidly that "could be" for dual cores. Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. Oh, boy -- a curveball! Now, if I get lucky I can test whether mine will unlock, real lucky - for a semi-stable, theoretical, free core. An existing XP single-core install can't be shifted over to a new machine, a dually, (hopefully) slipped the new MB drivers and once working (FU- kludged-BAR), to turn on that BIOS switch, hmmmm... Just asking (a dream come true, when what "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). I think it's as easy as running msconfig, hitting the 'boot ini' tab, click on the 'advanced options' and choosing the '/procnum' that are available. Getting that second core unlocked so that XP sees it's available is another question. Thanks for the (copied) tip -- duplicated Ok for msconfig: [procnum(s) avail] section/screen;- now I'll search around off the Gigabyte MB mod# both for setting up a unlocked multicore, or at least try that BIOS "virtual switch" for what if anything happens. The MB mentions its utility CD disc overclocks through software, which is kind of weird because I didn't see anything at all in the BIOS directly related to clock multiples, mem, or the FSB. Yes, anything else would be be potluck as an intended cheap backup to a very old AMD NewCastle754/ASUS with suspect capictatertots. |
#5
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:46:51 -0700 (PDT), Flasherly
fingered: Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. ... I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). You have an XP OS, I'd try the multi core then run a repair install on it. load all of the new drivers, just to see if it works - Your going to delete it anyways. ---- No answer, just some notes I took: AMD Locked cores No cite, Google claims it might of come from he http://forums.amd.com/gaming/textthr...hreadid=110481 --------------------------ACC------------------ This is what I know. I'm sure you have the same information, but in case there are any of those who have not done the research for SB750 Southbridge reviews.... ACC has something to do with overclocking the Phenom line-up. From one review, they speculated that it has something to do with how the board and processor "talk" to each other or something. With ACC enabled in BIOS' that support it, and if you have a Phenom I chip installed on that board, it can allow anywhere from an extra 200-400mhz on average. There are different settings which the user can set, for ACC's aggressiveness. Phenom II has ACC hard baked into the chip. Meaning, ACC is already enabled and ready to go on-chip. You do not need a BIOS which supports it, just as long as the motherboard and BIOS support a Phenom II. When review sites have used Phenom II chips in boards with ACC, enabling ACC did not do anything to help raise clocks higher. The only instance where having an SB750 Southbridge chip would be beneficial is when you have a tri-core Phenom II and enabling ACC can sometimes unlock the 4th core (generally core 03). ---- How many cores does your system see? HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Environment Mine: Key Name: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Environment Class Name: NO CLASS Last Write Time: 6/28/2011 - 5:45 AM Value 0 Name: ComSpec Type: REG_EXPAND_SZ Data: %SystemRoot%\system32\cmd.exe Value 1 Name: NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS Type: REG_SZ Data: 8 (my addition: I have 4 cores +4 threads) Value 2 Name: OS Type: REG_SZ Data: Windows_NT Value 3 Name: Path Type: REG_EXPAND_SZ Data: C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;%SystemRoot%\system32;%Sy stemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem Value 4 Name: PATHEXT Type: REG_SZ Data: .COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;. SH Value 5 Name: PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE Type: REG_SZ Data: AMD64 (my addition: Intel uses the AMD 64 standard) Value 6 Name: PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER Type: REG_SZ Data: EM64T Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 5, GenuineIntel Value 7 Name: PROCESSOR_LEVEL (my addition: refers to "CPU family") Type: REG_SZ Data: 6 Value 8 Name: PROCESSOR_REVISION Type: REG_SZ Data: 1a05 Value 9 Name: SAN_DIR Type: REG_SZ Data: C:\Program Files\SiSoftware2010 Value 10 Name: TEMP Type: REG_EXPAND_SZ Data: %SystemRoot%\TEMP Value 11 Name: TMP Type: REG_EXPAND_SZ Data: %SystemRoot%\TEMP Value 12 Name: windir Type: REG_EXPAND_SZ Data: %SystemRoot% -- How the Curiosity Mars Rover Will Land and Navigate, cause nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLxmGLZQSY&feature=fvst |
#6
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
Flasherly wrote:
On Jul 27, 12:46 pm, "Jan Alter" wrote: "Flasherly" wrote in message ... Have had an inexpensive Gigabyte MB and AMD Sempron sitting around a year or so. Finally put the mem, cpu, and dvd to it -- and see in the (rudimentary) BIOS a provision for something along "turn on virtual" machines. In the MB book it says something basic about OS that support virtual machines. Guessing offhandidly that "could be" for dual cores. Then I go off and stumble upon a read, that all Sempron productions are dual cores with a core locked. Oh, boy -- a curveball! Now, if I get lucky I can test whether mine will unlock, real lucky - for a semi-stable, theoretical, free core. An existing XP single-core install can't be shifted over to a new machine, a dually, (hopefully) slipped the new MB drivers and once working (FU- kludged-BAR), to turn on that BIOS switch, hmmmm... Just asking (a dream come true, when what "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). "I think" I've heard mentioned, is XP requires a fresh install for dual core support). I think it's as easy as running msconfig, hitting the 'boot ini' tab, click on the 'advanced options' and choosing the '/procnum' that are available. Getting that second core unlocked so that XP sees it's available is another question. Thanks for the (copied) tip -- duplicated Ok for msconfig: [procnum(s) avail] section/screen;- now I'll search around off the Gigabyte MB mod# both for setting up a unlocked multicore, or at least try that BIOS "virtual switch" for what if anything happens. The MB mentions its utility CD disc overclocks through software, which is kind of weird because I didn't see anything at all in the BIOS directly related to clock multiples, mem, or the FSB. Yes, anything else would be be potluck as an intended cheap backup to a very old AMD NewCastle754/ASUS with suspect capictatertots. Did S754 have any dual core processors, at all ? I don't see any here, so it would be hard to unlock them, if they aren't present. http://products.amd.com/en-us/Deskto...alse&f12=False Paul |
#7
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
On 27. 07. 2011 19:45, Paul wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700...ck_Calibration AMD also has the option of disabling that entirely. Most likely, by just removing the core and making the silicon die smaller. It all depends on whether they feel this feature, reduces demand for their slightly more expensive processors. When you enable a second core, it must be tested thoroughly for stability. I would do that with a Linux LiveCD, rather than messing up Windows immediately. Due to impurities in the silicon die onto which the CPU structure is etched, a certian % of the CPUs produced unusable. At that point it is cheaper to test what works and disable parts with problems and sell them as cheaper models, than it is to recycle the dies and start from scratch. This is the rason why CPUs are sold as Semprons -- there is not a separate factory line specifically to make them, where AMD would pick and choose how many cores to include; instead Semprons are imperfect Athlons. Imperfect dual-core Athlons make Semprons with the damaged core disabled; imperfect single-core Athlons make stripped single-core Semprons with no extra core to enable. The smaller the nm technology the greater the risk that an impurity will cause a serious problem (smaller wires make it more likely an impurity will be large enough to cut it off). The ratio of good CPUs / bad ones depends on how the technology of producing the raw material has caught up with the nm production technology and it's never quite good either way. As with all chip technology though, the impurities cause a probability of a problem rather than a certainty, by exposing the CPU to the correct conditions it may still be operable -- for example in Intel CPUs, Celerons were imperfect Pentiums, underclocked for stability or with cut-off damaged parts of the L2 cache which represented a large part of the die surface. In modern AMDs, it seems the distinction is purely software, enabling you to use software to enable the damaged components... of course at your own responsibility -- no factory guarantee that they will actually function. LP, Jure |
#8
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
Jure Sah wrote:
On 27. 07. 2011 19:45, Paul wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_700...ck_Calibration AMD also has the option of disabling that entirely. Most likely, by just removing the core and making the silicon die smaller. It all depends on whether they feel this feature, reduces demand for their slightly more expensive processors. When you enable a second core, it must be tested thoroughly for stability. I would do that with a Linux LiveCD, rather than messing up Windows immediately. Due to impurities in the silicon die onto which the CPU structure is etched, a certian % of the CPUs produced unusable. At that point it is cheaper to test what works and disable parts with problems and sell them as cheaper models, than it is to recycle the dies and start from scratch. This is the rason why CPUs are sold as Semprons -- there is not a separate factory line specifically to make them, where AMD would pick and choose how many cores to include; instead Semprons are imperfect Athlons. Imperfect dual-core Athlons make Semprons with the damaged core disabled; imperfect single-core Athlons make stripped single-core Semprons with no extra core to enable. The smaller the nm technology the greater the risk that an impurity will cause a serious problem (smaller wires make it more likely an impurity will be large enough to cut it off). The ratio of good CPUs / bad ones depends on how the technology of producing the raw material has caught up with the nm production technology and it's never quite good either way. As with all chip technology though, the impurities cause a probability of a problem rather than a certainty, by exposing the CPU to the correct conditions it may still be operable -- for example in Intel CPUs, Celerons were imperfect Pentiums, underclocked for stability or with cut-off damaged parts of the L2 cache which represented a large part of the die surface. In modern AMDs, it seems the distinction is purely software, enabling you to use software to enable the damaged components... of course at your own responsibility -- no factory guarantee that they will actually function. LP, Jure Flasherly mentioned in his second post, the processor is S754, and I don't think any of those have a second core. As near as I can determine, all the processors offered for S754 were single core. Which means there is not a second core to enable, unlock etc. Paul |
#9
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:50:19 +0200, Jure Sah
wrote: Due to impurities in the silicon die onto which the CPU structure is etched, a certian % of the CPUs produced unusable. At that point it is cheaper to test what works and disable parts with problems and sell them as cheaper models, than it is to recycle the dies and start from scratch. It's not at all easy to recycle--the main cost of the raw materials is purifying them to the degree required for chip-making. In making the chip a bunch of impurities were dumped in. If you recycle them you must then purify the material again. the die surface. In modern AMDs, it seems the distinction is purely software, enabling you to use software to enable the damaged components... of course at your own responsibility -- no factory guarantee that they will actually function. But it actually might be a good chip. If they don't have enough failures to meet demand for the lower-end chips they'll take perfectly good chips and degrade them. |
#10
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new mb (Sempron/GigaByte)
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:03:16 -0400, Paul wrote:
Did S754 have any dual core processors, at all ? I don't see any here, so it would be hard to unlock them, if they aren't present. (These Google DOS attacks or whatever are going to force me into a dedicated reader USENET feed). Not sure, possibly not. I bit off more than I should have first chewed with this Gigabyte. First off it's not the Sempron I misquoted - AMD/Orleans/AM2. 1: I said "new build" - checked the purchase dates after some (forthcoming) problems. Bought that thing 3 years ago (thinking it's been sitting a parts shelf a year, not much more)! MB has some questionable facets (reviewed) to it for its production timeframe (old chipset BIOS issues potentially foisted off at the time of mass marketing). In hindsight I could have reviewed that MB for better purchase options (where have I heard that before?). AMD Athlon 64 LE-1640 Orleans 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core Processor ADH1640DHBOX Item #: N82E16819103239 --Processors (CPUs) Return Policy $35.99 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ Item #: N82E16820231098 Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy $31.99 2 GIGABYTE GA-M61PME-S2 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 / nForce 430 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard Item #: N82E16813128333 30 Day Return Policy Gigabyte (626)-854-9338 option 4 www.giga-byte.com $48.99 2: Weird PS issues. Fired up OK w/ a Sparkle/Fortron 400W active. Next time, no change straight into the wall, nada (CPU fan wants to spin but won't). Tried an OCZ PS swap - nothing (as in dead). Both used PS units (Fortron long-time heavily, OCZ a couple years). Both with prior problems/issues evinced on the S756 (semi-addressed stably with with an ANTEC BRONZE -- 650W? whatever and spanking new). Got the Fortron-SPARKLE/Gigabyte back up eventually after coming off the outlet shared with a 115V AC, to another empty house powerleg. Took a few times, too. Power supplies, in my experience, a plagued PS-user, can offer a lot of 1st-time experiences with unbelievable problems. Maybe. What I did was order another PS, 3-day delivery from Newegg, its housebranded stuff, a Roswill marketed to compete with "the bronze" types for $29 on a $10 discount code marked already from $65 to $39. $29 shipped at a 1/4 bad reviews over 80. We'll see. If I don't, what I may be looking at my first time up with Gigabyte is a replacement. |
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