Weird clicking roulette wheel sound: what is it?

Another piece of information: this weird sounds, which sounds like a
spinning roulette wheel, sounds like it's coming from the HD bays, but
at the same time it could be the CPU fan--because when I power down,
just as the electricity stops, and everthing is dead, I hear the last
few revolutions of this sound, like the CPU fan propellers are coming
to rest. a sort of "tac-tack-tak" dying sound. Could it be the CPU
fan?

And again, when I smack down hard on top of the tower, after the
system has warmed up a bit (fifteen minutes of use, but not before),
the sound usually stops. If it starts again (once or twice a day)
another smack will silience it.

Any ideas?

I might replace the HD anyway, since they're five years old, but I'd
hate to replace the CPU fan unless I have to (I'm afraid I might screw
up the solvent/heat sink paste application, and it will fall off)

RL


raylopez99 View profile
More options Sep 25, 6:33 am

On Sep 24, 11:22 pm, Brian K wrote:

On 9/24/2007 3:22 AM raylopez99 consulted a Magic 8 Ball and declared:
Interesting Brian--this is my system now, 5 years old, as per another
thread here. How long (if you dare estimate) before the HD failure
(after you hear this noise, that you can flick away by tapping the
side of the tower).

Wasn't I clear? You open the case and flick the side of the HDD.

In my case I can make the sound disappear by tapping the side of the
tower--it sounds like a chatter, a light little vibration like a
bunch
of "bb" metal ball bearings being shaken in a metal cup, far away.

Drive
squeal as others have pointed out can be caused by many things. I had
head crash occur on one system that was only three years old.

Interesting--this is why I asked again--stories like this is what I
want to hear. This HD, a Western Digital, is bought five years old
this fall--about middle age for a HD.

The
read/write heads of a hard drive "fly" over the drive at a very narrow
distance from the drive surfaces. Sometimes the heads become magnetized.
When this happens the drive begins to squeal.

Is this a squeal that's continuous? Or a vibration sound like I
mentioned above?

Finally, head crash
happens when the magnetized head(s) become permanently stuck to the
drive disk(s). When this happens the drive makes a sound like a loud
scream. Then there's silence. The drive won't spin up and you can't
boot. While the drive could be sent to a data recovery firm, this is not
priced for non-corporate customers. At this point the drive is dead.

Head crash doesn't happen as much as it used to, but it still can happen
however rarely. I should have mentioned that in my original post.

Another problem with this old drive (it seems)--it sometimes gets
real
quiet, "runs out of steam", and the system crashes (no activity),
needing a reboot. It's almost like not enough power exists on the
system--which also has this symptom (but I've upgraded the power
supply, so that's not it). I think it's like the drive is just too
old.

As a precaution, I've ordered another EIDE HD (this one from
Seagate),
but before I spend half a day swapping internal HDs, I'd like to know
if I can keep this HD as is for a little longer.

RL

raylopez99 wrote:
Another piece of information: this weird sounds, which sounds like a
spinning roulette wheel, sounds like it's coming from the HD bays, but
at the same time it could be the CPU fan--because when I power down,
just as the electricity stops, and everthing is dead, I hear the last
few revolutions of this sound, like the CPU fan propellers are coming
to rest. a sort of "tac-tack-tak" dying sound. Could it be the CPU
fan?

And again, when I smack down hard on top of the tower, after the
system has warmed up a bit (fifteen minutes of use, but not before),
the sound usually stops. If it starts again (once or twice a day)
another smack will silience it.

Any ideas?

I might replace the HD anyway, since they're five years old, but I'd
hate to replace the CPU fan unless I have to (I'm afraid I might screw
up the solvent/heat sink paste application, and it will fall off)

RL


To debug weird sounds, first make a list of all the things that
are potential sound sources.

CPU fan, chassis fan, PSU fan, Vcore regulator, CDROM motor,
HDD motor/platter, video card fan...

For the fans, you can press on the hub of the fan, to slow
it down just a little bit. If the noise disappears, or if the
frequency of the noise shifts, then you'd found the source.

A modern hard drive motor should not make sound. The modern
ones are FDB or fluid dynamic bearing. If sound is coming from
them, failure would be imminent. If a sound comes out, it means
the bearing is dry, and the friction from a loss of lubricant,
will ruin it quickly.

Older drives use ball bearings. A drive with ball bearings
will gradually get louder as it gets older. I retired a number
of IBM SCSI drives, because I could no longer stand to listen to
the noise. The drives still work fine, but I would not take a
chance on them.

You cannot get access to the PSU fan, to press on the hub. If you
take a thin slip of paper, and jab it into the fan blades, the
noise you hear will give you some idea as to what rate the fan
is spinning at, and whether the characteristic frequency of that
fan, matches the noise you are hearing.

The video card fan is a good source of noise. I've had a couple
of them that went bad. You should be able to get at the hub
there, and press lightly on it.

There is no reason for the CD to spin, unless there is media present.

Vcore noises are different than fan noises, and you should be
able to tell the difference between a rotating object making a
noise, and other sources.

It is also possible for a computer case to resonate at a frequency
excited by a hard drive. Some drives vibrate from side to side, and
a cheap case can amplify the sound. At 7200RPM (120 RPS), you'd
expect the sound to be like an "AC hum". This is one reason I like
to purchase heavy steel computer cases, to help damp out that kind of
noise.

I would not "whack" the computer case, because if you do, sooner or
later you'll have a data recovery problem on your hands, when the
disk is damaged. The disk might be innocent.

Hard drives have evolved over the years, to their current tiny size.
Back when they were much larger devices, they used to have a piece
of spring steel which pressed against the end of the rotating shaft.
On those old drives, the noise from that spring could drive you
nuts. I'm not aware of any similar mechanism to drain static electricity
off the rotating platter, on modern drives. There is nothing similar in
the current design.

Good luck,
Paul

On Sep 26, 1:43 am, Paul wrote:
raylopez99 wrote:

To debug weird sounds, first make a list of all the things that
are potential sound sources.

CPU fan, chassis fan, PSU fan, Vcore regulator, CDROM motor,
HDD motor/platter, video card fan...


It is also possible for a computer case to resonate at a frequency
excited by a hard drive. Some drives vibrate from side to side, and
a cheap case can amplify the sound. At 7200RPM (120 RPS), you'd
expect the sound to be like an "AC hum". This is one reason I like
to purchase heavy steel computer cases, to help damp out that kind of
noise.

I would not "whack" the computer case, because if you do, sooner or
later you'll have a data recovery problem on your hands, when the
disk is damaged. The disk might be innocent.


Thanks Paul--very helpful. From your post I conclude it's likely
either a fan for the CPU or graphics card (since the sound dies out
*after* the AC power is off, as the fan blades are winding down "tick
tick tick" they make a last few dying sounds.

Likely the HD is not the culprit but it being 5 years old I'm
replacing it as a precaution.

Banging will not bother anything IMO (I don't bang hard).

I installed "Motherboard Monitor 5" utility and the CPU temp for a
Northwood series 120nm Pentium IV is 102-111F (or 39C to 44C) at idle
to light overhead, which from what I can tell he
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...ing/index.html is
normal

Any other tips appreciated; thank you!

RL

raylopez99 wrote:

On Sep 26, 1:43 am, Paul wrote:
raylopez99 wrote:

I would not "whack" the computer case, because if you do, sooner or
later you'll have a data recovery problem on your hands, when the
disk is damaged. The disk might be innocent.

Thanks Paul--very helpful. From your post I conclude it's likely
either a fan for the CPU or graphics card (since the sound dies out
*after* the AC power is off, as the fan blades are winding down
"tick tick tick" they make a last few dying sounds.

Have you looked inside the case? That could be fan blades hitting
something.

Likely the HD is not the culprit but it being 5 years old I'm
replacing it as a precaution.

As a precaution for losing all of your files? You should always keep a
removable media copy of any important files.

Banging will not bother anything IMO (I don't bang hard).

I bang hard and fast with no problems.













RL

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
raylopez99 wrote:

On Sep 26, 1:43 am, Paul wrote:
raylopez99 wrote:

I would not "whack" the computer case, because if you do, sooner or
later you'll have a data recovery problem on your hands, when the
disk is damaged. The disk might be innocent.

Thanks Paul--very helpful. From your post I conclude it's likely
either a fan for the CPU or graphics card (since the sound dies out
*after* the AC power is off, as the fan blades are winding down
"tick tick tick" they make a last few dying sounds.

Have you looked inside the case? That could be fan blades hitting
something.

Likely the HD is not the culprit but it being 5 years old I'm
replacing it as a precaution.

As a precaution for losing all of your files? You should always keep a
removable media copy of any important files.

Banging will not bother anything IMO (I don't bang hard).

I bang hard and fast with no problems.

Same here.......Loud noise coming from 'puter.........bang the hell out of
it.........noise stopped........pat self on back and say "I sure fixed that
sucker........:-)


Ed












RL

"raylopez99" wrote in message
ups.com...
Another piece of information: this weird sounds, which sounds like a
spinning roulette wheel, sounds like it's coming from the HD bays, but
at the same time it could be the CPU fan--because when I power down,
just as the electricity stops, and everthing is dead, I hear the last
few revolutions of this sound, like the CPU fan propellers are coming
to rest. a sort of "tac-tack-tak" dying sound. Could it be the CPU
fan?

And again, when I smack down hard on top of the tower, after the
system has warmed up a bit (fifteen minutes of use, but not before),
the sound usually stops. If it starts again (once or twice a day)
another smack will silience it.

Any ideas?
Wire loom contacting the fan blades ..maybe... open the case side and listen, if this
is a fairly new rig, look around the CPU area, as the looms for some P4's are precariously
close to the Fan.

On Sep 26, 9:42 am, "JAD" john
wrote:
"raylopez99" wrote in message


Wire loom contacting the fan blades ..maybe... open the case side and listen, if this
is a fairly new rig, look around the CPU area, as the looms for some P4's are precariously
close to the Fan.

I checked that, and it's not a wire contacting the fan blades.

My next PC I build will be with rubber fasteners and sound proof
installation--an all quiet machine that's becoming more popular.

RL

Ed M. wrote:

Banging will not bother anything IMO (I don't bang hard).
I bang hard and fast with no problems.

Same here.......Loud noise coming from 'puter.........bang the hell out of
it.........noise stopped........pat self on back and say "I sure fixed that
sucker........:-)

Reminds me of a friend (honestly, it wasn't me!) who used to have a 14"
or 15" CRT monitor that was starting to fail. One of the colours would
stop working and/or it would start to emit a high pitched squeal.....
the way he fixed it was to whack it so hard on the side that it almost
fell of the table.... either that or whack the top of it so hard that it
nearly went through the (mainly) plastic desktop case that it sat on
Surprisingly, it (and the P2-350 base unit it sat on) took years of
this abuse. It was probably just a dry joint that needed resoldering on
the back of the tube but I didn't tell him that or I'd have got myself a
job!

"class_a" wrote in message
. ..
Ed M. wrote:

Banging will not bother anything IMO (I don't bang hard).
I bang hard and fast with no problems.

Same here.......Loud noise coming from 'puter.........bang the hell out
of
it.........noise stopped........pat self on back and say "I sure fixed
that
sucker........:-)

Reminds me of a friend (honestly, it wasn't me!) who used to have a 14"
or 15" CRT monitor that was starting to fail. One of the colours would
stop working and/or it would start to emit a high pitched squeal.....
the way he fixed it was to whack it so hard on the side that it almost
fell of the table.... either that or whack the top of it so hard that it
nearly went through the (mainly) plastic desktop case that it sat on
Surprisingly, it (and the P2-350 base unit it sat on) took years of
this abuse. It was probably just a dry joint that needed resoldering on
the back of the tube but I didn't tell him that or I'd have got myself a
job!

hehe........I had one a decade or so ago that was very similar, but it was
actually dying (flyback Xformer) and I went through that for about a month
before it just went to the dark side on me. That was what brought up that
last post about banging the hell of 'puter.......:-). Banging on today's
computers, especially with the fragile SATA/SATA power connectors, is not
something I would recommend in actuality.


Ed Medlin