A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Storage (alternative)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Boot.ini question



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old February 3rd 06, 12:13 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

Timothy Daniels wrote:

If you can't cite correctly, look it up or leave it... "Ding am
Sich" is just sick.


OK, OK. Ding an Sich.


Still not right. Look it up again

There are so many uses of "Ding am Sich"


Google comes up with 148 versions of this your "thing" (some of which may
be yours -- and with about 101,000 for "Ding an sich". Doesn't look like
"many uses"...

that I misspelled the pronoun.


Not only that. (A hint: in German, capitalization is important. In English
it is, too, but many don't know that

Is that significant to you?


Not that much. It seemed significant enough for you to write about it.

If you want to know what it means, read Kant.


Different from you I /can/ do that -- and if I wanted to, I could cite him
correctly.

But then I don't need to invoke Kant to discuss Microsoft's boot.ini. OTOH,
if you really want to, maybe you read up on what Kant says about the "Ding
an sich" and what we know about it. Then relate that to the sentence where
you first tried to use it.

Gerhard
  #72  
Old February 3rd 06, 12:36 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Gerhard Fiedler" enscribed:
Aren't there BIOS/controllers that don't boot from all disks connected
to them, yet these disks may still have rdisk numbers and allow
starting Windows on them?


This ends with a question mark, but it sure ain't a sentence. What is
it?


Here's a simpler version, step by step:

1- You claimed that the rdisk number is related to the boot order.

2- One consequence of this is that if a controller can't boot from a disk,
I can't use your rule to determine the rdisk number.

3- I can use boot.ini entries to start Windows on drives the controller
can't boot from.

4- To do this, I use rdisk numbers determined in other ways than suggested
by you, because your method doesn't provide rdisk numbers for drives that
can't be booted by the controller.

5- This works. Windows can start from a drive that can't be booted by the
controller, given that the necessary files (ntldr and boot.ini among them)
are present and properly installed on a drive it can boot from.

6- Your claimed rule can't be used to determine the rdisk number for those
drives, yet they do have an rdisk number that can be used in boot.ini.

7- From this follows that the boot order (the term as used by you) is not a
generally usable method to determine the rdisk number of a drive for use in
boot.ini, as it requires the controller to be able to boot from the drive
in question.


(A maybe important side note: There is a difference between "booting" and
"starting Windows". The boot drive does not have to be the one where
Windows is installed. The boot drive needs to be the one that contains --
among other things -- boot.ini and that gets booted by the controller.
Windows can be installed on another drive; that would be the one the rdisk
parameter points to, and this drive does not have to be bootable by the
controller. It seems you can't replicate such a situation on your system,
because it seems your controller can boot from all drives you have
currently installed. You'd have to install a drive that you can't boot from
or run this on a system that has drives installed that the controller can't
boot to see first hand what I mean -- if you don't know it.)


Got it?

Gerhard
  #73  
Old February 3rd 06, 07:06 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
"craigm" commented:
rdisk(#) is the order of the disks on the specific controller. This
probably means the drives are assigned the numbers during device
discovery.

Does changing the boot order in the BIOS renumber/reorder the
disks on the controller, or just change the order in which they are
scanned to look for a bootable system?

I suspect the latter.



Yes, the latter.


Nope.

"rdisk(n)" is given meaning by the BIOS.


The IDE controller doesn't know about hard drive boot order.


Nonsense.
The IDE controller BIOS setup program certainly does, *if* it has one.


When the hard drive boot order is changed in the BIOS, the controller still displays:
Master, ch. 0
Slave, ch. 0
Master, ch. 1
Slave, ch. 1


Which has nothing whatsoever to do with bootorder.

at boot time because that is all the IDE controll knows.


About itself. The system sees them by the device numbers each gets.
It doesn't care about masters or slaves (or SCSI IDs).


*TimDaniels*

  #74  
Old February 3rd 06, 07:32 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

"Gerhard Fiedler" wrote:
1- You claimed that the rdisk number is related to the boot order.



No, I did not. Read again. You will see that I referred to
"hard drive boot order". That is a subset of "boot order",
the latter including removable media devices such as
Zip drives and CD/DVD drives and floppy drives and flash
drives.. If you want to boot from devices other than hard drives,
you're on your own in configuring your boot.ini file.

*TimDaniels*
  #75  
Old February 3rd 06, 07:47 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

"Folkert Rienstra" wrote:
"Timothy Daniels" wrote:
When the hard drive boot order is changed in the BIOS,
the controller still displays:
Master, ch. 0
Slave, ch. 0
Master, ch. 1
Slave, ch. 1


Which has nothing whatsoever to do with bootorder.



Which is my point. It is the BIOS that determines the
hard drive boot order and that order is independent of
the controller. And in the Phoenix BIOS, the BIOS takes
the above list and makes it the *default* hard drive boot
order if the user does not reset it. Most users do not reset
it (or know how to reset it), and for them it *is* the hard
drive boot order.

*TimDaniels*
  #76  
Old February 3rd 06, 10:29 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

Timothy Daniels wrote:

"Gerhard Fiedler" wrote:
1- You claimed that the rdisk number is related to the boot order.


No, I did not. Read again. You will see that I referred to
"hard drive boot order".


You didn't read my message at all, or if you did, you didn't get it. I
wrote "boot order (the term as used by you)", which should tell you what
you need to know.

You can read my message again and (mentally) substitute "boot order" with
"hard drive boot order", because that's obviously what I was writing about.
We didn't talk about CD-ROMs, did we?

If you want to boot from devices other than hard drives, you're on your
own in configuring your boot.ini file.


I did of course /not/ talk about booting from anything but hard drives --
which anybody (or maybe not) could find out by reading my message.


Fact is that there are disks with perfectly valid rdisk numbers in many
systems that can't be booted by their controllers -- which, according to
you, would mean that they don't have an rdisk number.

Gerhard
  #77  
Old February 4th 06, 02:28 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

"Gerhard Fiedler" substituted:
Fact is that there are disks with perfectly valid rdisk numbers in many
systems that can't be booted by their controllers -- which, according to
you, would mean that they don't have an rdisk number.



Whatever.

*TimDaniels*
  #78  
Old February 4th 06, 03:03 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

Timothy Daniels wrote
Gerhard Fiedler wrote


Fact is that there are disks with perfectly valid rdisk numbers in
many systems that can't be booted by their controllers -- which,
according to you, would mean that they don't have an rdisk number.


Whatever.


Down in flames, as always.


  #79  
Old February 4th 06, 04:31 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

"Rod Speed" wrote:

Down in flames, as always.



No, just don't see any point in arguing trivia with
you and your sock puppet shelf mates.

*TimDaniels*
  #80  
Old February 4th 06, 04:46 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Boot.ini question

Timothy Daniels wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Down in flames, as always.


No,


Yep.

just don't see any point in arguing trivia with you and your sock puppet
shelf mates.


Been having these pathetic little delusional fantasys long child ?

Gerhard's style is NOTHING like mine.

And we arent arguing trivia either you
pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good morning or good evening depending upon your location. I want to ask you the most important question of your life. Your joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good Remnant Banana General 5 April 23rd 05 02:40 AM
Good morning or good evening depending upon your location. I want to ask you the most important question of your life. Your joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good RFM Printers 0 April 23rd 05 01:23 AM
Good morning or good evening depending upon your location. I want to ask you the most important question of your life. Your joy or sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good Yddap Dell Computers 0 April 22nd 05 01:00 AM
couple of Dimension XPS Gen4 question Matt Dell Computers 3 March 4th 05 03:20 AM
Question - Printing 2-up on 11x17 Don Printers 1 August 24th 03 04:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.