It is all over for teh US, Osama has won? The pitfalls of the US SS (Homeland security)

John Larkin wrote in message
America benefits, morally and materially, from a healthy, democratic,
competitive world. Some people, including Cheney I suspect, understand
this.

Wrong. It's all a resources game. Always has been, always will be.

"Tom Del Rosso" wrote:

"chrisv" wrote in message
.. .
"Tom Del Rosso" wrote:

The necessity of overthrowing
the Baathists was recognised by President Clinton, who wasn't known
for
ties to the oil industry.

I just hope that we have not effectively replaced them with a radical
Muslim government.

The Iraqis aren't so inclined. The Iranian goverment is trying to
establish one, but if we can help Iraq hold on until they have a
government of their own, then they can prevent that from ever happening.

You hope. You don't know. It looks pretty scary right now...

Jan Panteltje wrote:

Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us
think you're unworthy.

You are still stuck in that American superiority complex.
I judge you by what you do NOW.
Killing civilians all over the world,
Why not sit on one of your nukes and detonate?
For sure you Americans are so strong you are immune.

Yeah, if I were German, I'd want to forget what happened about 60
years ago, too. Please, quit with the moralizing. People all over
the world are quite often the hapless victims of the idiots who are in
power at the time. Pointing fingers and saying "we are better than
you" just shows your ignorance.

"Tom Del Rosso" schreef in bericht
...
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in
message ...
http://www.commondreams.org/
picture top left, why this is forbidden to show?

Duh, probably for the same reason it was forbidden to show the bodies
left over from Operation Market Garden. The American people might have
lost interest in liberating your country.

Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us
think you're unworthy.

I guess you can't 'buy' people. Like 'buying' a wife from the Philipines.
She will love you for three weeks, but you can't expect her to keep
returning
favours for the rest of her life. Like many in Iraq, shortly after the
fall of Saddam most of them were having a great party. Ask yourself why
it didn't last that long. The party at the end of WWII certainly lasted
much longer, and not without reason. But in a similar way, you can't expect
me to party on. Besides, nobody knows what would have happened, if no
help had come that time.

Using analogies to explain complicated matters often achieve the
opposite and obfuscate things. Let's see if I can find a nice
example of that.... here goes: Offering help to people in an
emergency situation is a good thing. Imagine a man in the desert.
Isolated. What is better, to leave him alone, or to give him one
glass of water every two days? I can think of many more examples
like this. Iraq didn't need any 'help'. They were doing reasonably
well, the last ten years or so. Damn right they are 'ungrateful'.
They are in an even greater mess than they were. And who has put
them in that mess? Ask yourself that question.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

"chrisv" schreef in bericht
...
Jan Panteltje wrote:

Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us
think you're unworthy.

You are still stuck in that American superiority complex.
I judge you by what you do NOW.
Killing civilians all over the world,
Why not sit on one of your nukes and detonate?
For sure you Americans are so strong you are immune.

Yeah, if I were German, I'd want to forget what happened about 60
years ago, too. Please, quit with the moralizing. People all over
the world are quite often the hapless victims of the idiots who are in
power at the time. Pointing fingers and saying "we are better than
you" just shows your ignorance.

I think we are better, yes. The US thinks it can do whatever it
pleases. Perhaps they do an excellent job running their own
place, but that doesn't mean they have unlimited wisdom and know
how run other places. Neither do we of course. So we have a UN
and share our wisdom, make decisions in democratic way. Bypassing
that is plain dictatorship.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

In infinite wisdom Frank Bemelman answered:
"chrisv" schreef in bericht
...

Jan Panteltje wrote:


Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us
think you're unworthy.

You are still stuck in that American superiority complex.
I judge you by what you do NOW.
Killing civilians all over the world,
Why not sit on one of your nukes and detonate?
For sure you Americans are so strong you are immune.

Yeah, if I were German, I'd want to forget what happened about 60
years ago, too. Please, quit with the moralizing. People all over
the world are quite often the hapless victims of the idiots who are in
power at the time. Pointing fingers and saying "we are better than
you" just shows your ignorance.


I think we are better, yes. The US thinks it can do whatever it
pleases. Perhaps they do an excellent job running their own
place,

Many here might disagree.

but that doesn't mean they have unlimited wisdom and know
how run other places. Neither do we of course. So we have a UN
and share our wisdom, make decisions in democratic way.

I note that you use the words "UN" and "democratic way" in the
same sentence. I assume that this is a mistake. I hope this is
a mistake. If not when was the last time you (or anyone else
for that matter) voted for a UN member or rule or regulation?

Bypassing that is plain dictatorship.

What do you think the UN is Frank?

Rich

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:12:04 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:10:31 GMT) it happened "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote in
:

"Jan Panteltje" wrote in
message ...
http://www.commondreams.org/
picture top left, why this is forbidden to show?

Duh, probably for the same reason it was forbidden to show the bodies
left over from Operation Market Garden. The American people might have
lost interest in liberating your country.

Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us
think you're unworthy.
You are still stuck in that American superiority complex.
I judge you by what you do NOW.
Killing civilians all over the world,
Why not sit on one of your nukes and detonate?
For sure you Americans are so strong you are immune.

You would not even have had car tires without stealing the German patent on
vulcanizing rubber.



Chinese proverb: if you save someone's life, they will hate you
forever.

John

chrisv wrote :

Jan Panteltje wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/22/opinion/22FRIE.html

Like I'm going to set up an account just to read whatever that is?

So, had some time while the processor usage is over 100%
and I just have to wait (oops finished now) for the processing.
So I started reading CNN, and was happy to see that at least
SOME people see what I noticed earlier, see above link.

'Brain drain?' no I would call it brain lock!

Now it will all get worse, the US deficit, if nobody
wants to buy US anymore then it is all over.
(Other countries like Japan and China MUST buy US loans to
finance the ever growing US deficit. If they do
not, because their own economy is much more attractive to invest
in, like in the case of China, then US will end up a third world
country.) But I give it to Cheney, the oil price will be higher
then ever. Well done.
But you may have to sell your house and move into a cheaper one
with 400 % higher mortgage rates.
No problem, all for the fatherland.

What are you babbling about?

something about 140k workplaces outsourced to India ?


Pozdrawiam.
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RusH //
http://pulse.pdi.net/~rush/qv30/
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

In ,
chrisv typed:

You hope. You don't know. It looks pretty scary right now...

Right, it's just hope. We should bring down the Iranian and Syrian
regimes to improve the odds. I don't see any hope in letting all of
them persist, like it would have been if we didn't even invade Iraq.


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In ,
Frank Bemelman typed:

I think we are better, yes. The US thinks it can do whatever it
pleases. Perhaps they do an excellent job running their own
place, but that doesn't mean they have unlimited wisdom and know
how run other places. Neither do we of course. So we have a UN
and share our wisdom, make decisions in democratic way. Bypassing
that is plain dictatorship.

The UN has never had a single success in a situation that offered a real
challenge like the current one.


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