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#11
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John Larkin wrote:
[snip] Time was, Europe was the center of science and industry. Then America got in on the act. Now China, India, Brazil, and other places are learning to use technology, create wealth, and move up from impoverished agrarian societies. learning ..., we sillies gave it to them in the hope of quick cheap gains. Africa and the Middle East are next. be patient. If that means that America is "loosing its edge", so what? Most people here have everything they could reasonably need, and more. America benefits, morally and materially, from a healthy, democratic, competitive world. Some people, including Cheney I suspect, understand this. Rene |
#12
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On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:10:14 GMT) it happened maxfoo
wrote in : On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:23:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:40:53 -0500) it happened chrisv wrote in : What are you babbling about? Read the link, you have to register to nytimes, but it is free. I wouldn't read that trash if they paid me to register. Well, from a technical point of view, the reporting is not at all that bad, rather good I would say. |
#13
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On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:10:31 GMT) it happened "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote in : "Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... http://www.commondreams.org/ picture top left, why this is forbidden to show? Duh, probably for the same reason it was forbidden to show the bodies left over from Operation Market Garden. The American people might have lost interest in liberating your country. Some Americans used to think Europeans were ungrateful. Now some of us think you're unworthy. You are still stuck in that American superiority complex. I judge you by what you do NOW. Killing civilians all over the world, Why not sit on one of your nukes and detonate? For sure you Americans are so strong you are immune. You would not even have had car tires without stealing the German patent on vulcanizing rubber. |
#14
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On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:33:55 -0700) it happened John Larkin
wrote in : On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:17:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:36:43 -0700) it happened John Larkin wrote in : America benefits, morally and materially, from a healthy, democratic, competitive world. Some people, including Cheney I suspect, understand this. John Well said, John. Indeed US could benefit from some morale, and democracy would help them too. Good grief, I've lived here for some years and the US is more liberal, more accepting, and more democratic than it has ever been. While France wallows in anti-muslim and anti-Jewish racism, I live in a city that has no racial majority, is 20% gay, whose high schools and colleges are majority asian, has three Spanish-language and two asian television stations (plus one more I can't figure out, Croatian or something) and everybody around here gets along great. Given all the immigration and change the US is going through, we're not doing bad at all. Morale is fine. John Good to hear that, San Fransisco? |
#15
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"Jan Panteltje" wrote in
message ... You are still stuck in that American superiority complex. I judge you by what you do NOW. No, you asked why we made a certain thing illegal, as if we never had done the same thing before, and I pointed out that we had. Killing civilians all over the world, We did that also -- and a lot more of it -- while we were driving the Wermacht out of your kitchen. Selective indignation. You would not even have had car tires without stealing the German patent on vulcanizing rubber. Are you trying to make me laugh? (You did make me smile.) Did everybody else in the world pay a royalty? When was this, the 1890s? (...Looking it up...) I see that the process was improved in Germany in 1932. Is that the patent you mean? There was another just before WWI. Why are you defending pre-war German industrialization of all things? |
#16
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:13:11 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote: On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:33:55 -0700) it happened John Larkin wrote in : On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:17:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:36:43 -0700) it happened John Larkin m wrote in : America benefits, morally and materially, from a healthy, democratic, competitive world. Some people, including Cheney I suspect, understand this. John Well said, John. Indeed US could benefit from some morale, and democracy would help them too. Good grief, I've lived here for some years and the US is more liberal, more accepting, and more democratic than it has ever been. While France wallows in anti-muslim and anti-Jewish racism, I live in a city that has no racial majority, is 20% gay, whose high schools and colleges are majority asian, has three Spanish-language and two asian television stations (plus one more I can't figure out, Croatian or something) and everybody around here gets along great. Given all the immigration and change the US is going through, we're not doing bad at all. Morale is fine. John Good to hear that, San Fransisco? Right. I admit that parts of the USA, "flyover territory" as the coasties call it, are still lily-white, but most of the big cities are very racially/socially/sexually mixed, and all sorts of people are making it in business, professions, arts and producing all sorts of interesting babies. It's an amazing change from when I was a kid and we had separate drinking fountains for blacks and whites. I recently read that North Africans make up a sizable percentage of the French population, but none of the top 500 or something of company CEOs are from that group. Silicon Valley ain't like that! Really, the USA, especially the coasts, are astonishing social laboratories that have to be seen to be believed. For this many different people to get along as well as they do is amazing, maybe unprecedented. Some European countries have birth rates as low as 1.2 per couple, far below maintenance rates. As the European population ages, retires younger, and lives longer, there won't be enough working youngsters to sustain the retirees, so you'll have to breed like crazy (but it's too late already) or import a lot of people with funny skin colors. It will be interesting to see how this shapes up. John |
#17
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"chrisv" wrote in message
... "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: The necessity of overthrowing the Baathists was recognised by President Clinton, who wasn't known for ties to the oil industry. I just hope that we have not effectively replaced them with a radical Muslim government. The Iraqis aren't so inclined. The Iranian goverment is trying to establish one, but if we can help Iraq hold on until they have a government of their own, then they can prevent that from ever happening. -- -Reply in group, but if emailing add 2 more zeros- -and remove the obvious- |
#18
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"John Larkin" wrote in
message ... Really, the USA, especially the coasts, are astonishing social laboratories that have to be seen to be believed. For this many different people to get along as well as they do is amazing, maybe unprecedented. And people who would be at each other's throats back home get along fine living next to each other here. Pakistanis and Indians, Peruvians and Chileans, etc. They sometimes speak ill of each other, but only in private. There is no public encitement to hostility. -- -Reply in group, but if emailing add 2 more zeros- -and remove the obvious- |
#19
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:05:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/22/opinion/22FRIE.html Arrgg!! NEVER post a direct link to New York Times, too much of a pain in the ass to get too.. instead get the Google News link... Here it is for this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/22/op...partner=GOOGLE That'll take you right there without needing to make up some fake info to clog up NYT's systems. And now back to our off-topic flame war du jour... So, had some time while the processor usage is over 100% and I just have to wait (oops finished now) for the processing. So I started reading CNN, and was happy to see that at least SOME people see what I noticed earlier, see above link. 'Brain drain?' no I would call it brain lock! Now it will all get worse, the US deficit, if nobody wants to buy US anymore then it is all over. I'll preface this by saying that I'm a Canadian, and about 10-15 years ago Canada was going through a lot of the same problems that are mentioned in this article. All of our top science and engineering students were going to the States, few businesses were doing any R&D here in Canada and economically we were running up HUGE deficits. These sorts of things are not good and they are not something that will just go away because we want them too. This caused quite a few problems to the country, to the extent of some people calling Canada an "Honorary third-world country". The US has really got to get it's fiscal policy in check or they will end up having some rather major problems. As a Canadian I don't want this at all since, whether we like it or not, our economy is strongly tied to the US economy. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
#20
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:50:29 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: Some European countries have birth rates as low as 1.2 per couple, far below maintenance rates. As the European population ages, retires younger, and lives longer, there won't be enough working youngsters to sustain the retirees, so you'll have to breed like crazy (but it's too late already) or import a lot of people with funny skin colors. It will be interesting to see how this shapes up. You make it sound as if this is a new thing, something European countries have not been experiencing for some years. In the grand scheme of things though, most of western Europe actually has higher immigration rates (as a percentage of the population) than the United States does, and they have for some time. I can assure you that Europe is certainly not "lily-white", and most of the larger cities have a very ethnically diverse population. At a guess I would say that London is possibly the most ethnically diverse city in the world.. Name any culture and you can probably find a few hundred thousand people from that culture living in London. ------------- Tony Hill hilla underscore 20 at yahoo dot ca |
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