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PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEsproviding 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 2nd 09, 09:09 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Doug Jacobs[_2_]
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ??providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 The alMIGHTY N wrote:
Before the Playstation 3 was announced, did anyone seriously believe
that there was a chance that a) the Playstation 2 would still be so
viable 2 years in and b) the Playstation 3 would be doing so poorly?


Well, there were always the anti-Sony trolls and fanbois, but they'll
believe anything.

The main reason the PS2 continues to do well is because companies are
still developing for it. ?Some of the best games of 2008 were released for
the PS2, of all things.


They were released on other platforms as well, though, so it's no big
deal.


Now if you're talking about PS2 exclusives, I question whether that's
really true. I hear critical raving about Persona 4 but the game is a
niche RPG and isn't all that and a bag of chips from a financial
perspective.


I'd call Persona 4 one of the year's best games based on the reviews it
got. Whether it'll sell big or not, is a different story.

What do you mean by "best games?" Best games from what perspective?
Persona 4, being an RPG, means that it won't be a good game for most
gamers. I could just as easily say that MLB The Show was one of the
best games in 2008 even if that would make you cringe with
displeasure, LOL.


I'm looking at "best games" as in got good reviews. If we go by sales
numbers, I agree that things look very different.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
  #12  
Old February 2nd 09, 09:44 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Doug Jacobs[_2_]
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ?providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 chrisv wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe non-HDTV people would buy the cheaper PS3,
and HDTV people would step-up to the 4. People buy a wide range of
video cards for PC's, depending on their personal desire for
eye-candy, why not consoles?


For one thing, it'll just confuse the market. Consoles are supposed to be
dirt simple to use. Put in game. Play game.

Furthermore, do you really think that a game made to work on the PS3 and PS4
would look that much better on the PS4 that it would convince folks to
spend $400-500 (estimate) on a new console or $200 on an older console
that gives you the same graphics?

Making the PS4 backwards compatible with the PS3 would be a good idea,


Of course, especially because the PS3 has not been a great seller,
they can't start "from scratch" again.

This is why I can't fully understand why Sony entirely dropped PS2
compatibility from the PS3 so early on in the PS3's life cycle.


Well, just about everyone on the planet already has a PS2. It's
*still* probably the overall-best console to own, with it's vast
selection of games, mostly inexpensive because they're older and/or
used.


Yes, but by dropping PS2 compatibility from the PS3, that basically means
there isn't much of a reason to buy a PS3 until you think there's enough
PS3 games to play, right? With the PS2's PS1 backwards compatibility,
many people (like myself) bought a PS2 and used it to finish up our PS1
games while waiting for more PS2 games to arrive. This way, Sony got the
benefit from us buying a PS2 earlier rather than later.

With the current PS3s, if I'm still playing PS2 games, I'm obviously not
going to even consider a PS3. As a result, the PS2 continued to have
strong sales way beyond those of the PS1 when the PS2 came out. Remember,
by this time in the PS2's lifecycle, the PS1 was basically dead. No new
games were slated, and even production of the PS1 was on the decline. By
the time the PS2 turned 3, the PS1 was gone. However, with the PS3, it
seems the PS2 won't just be around in 2009, but will still have games
actively released for it, and will probably survive long into 2010 -
almost 4 years after the PS3 has been released.


--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
  #13  
Old February 2nd 09, 10:02 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Doug Jacobs[_2_]
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ??providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 The alMIGHTY N wrote:
I think the question was basically, "If you the disc works in both the
Playstation 3 and the Playstation 4, what incentive would most people
have to pay for the new Playstation 4?"


This.

If you have a PS3 already, and new games work on it, why buy a PS4?

If you don't have a PS3 at all, why would you want to spend more money on
the PS4 when the PS3 plays the same games?

Does anyone really think we're going to see a huge jump in graphics
between the PS3 and PS4, much less enough of a jump that will make people
want a PS4 when the PS3 plays the same games?

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
  #14  
Old February 2nd 09, 10:23 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Doug Jacobs[_2_]
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ??providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 Rich Hutnik wrote:
Then why should people bother upgrading to a PS3 now, if they own a
PS2? So long as you can keep getting Madden every year, why is it
needed? Also, why should people bother upgrading their PCs?

Maybe the idea is that you get better graphics and gameplay in the new
version.


I think you missed the original point.

You used to be able to play your PS2 games on the PS3. This is backwards
compatibility.

The question posed earlier was what if PS4 games also came with a PS3
version on the same disc? Therefore, you wouldn't need a next-gen console
to play next-gen games. Personally I think this would be a horrible idea
because it would basically remove reasons to buy a PS4.

As for the PC comparison, it's a bit different. Sure, eventually your
PC's hardware will just be too slow to handle a newer game. However you
aren't forced to continually upgrade. And in the case of the PS3 vs. PS4,
this would be like comparing today's latest card with the one that'll be
released 9 months from now. Do you really think there's going to be that
noticable of an impact on the graphics to merit buying a whole card or
system? I really don't think so. Especially since I think the price is
going to be far more of an issue for the PS4 than it was for the "save
your lunch money" PS3.

So if the PS4 takes Nintendo's approach used for the Wii, and essentially
duct tapes 2 PS3s together, do you really think the graphics are going to
be that radically different between the PS3 and PS4? If PS4 games can be
played on the PS3 - even with some downgraded graphics - do you think the
delta between the PS3 and PS4's graphics would induce you to buy a PS4?
My guess right now is "No." If PS4 games play on the PS3 without there
being a huge drop in the graphics, why would anyone buy a more expensive
PS4 when a cheaper PS3 would do the job just fine? Sony would be suicidal
to even consider this path, not just because of the damage it would do to
their PS4 hardware sales, but because of the extra effort that would be
needed to essentially create a PS3 game, then port and optimize it for the
PS4. I can't see developers being that excited about doing this extra
amount of work for what's basically an old console at this point.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
  #15  
Old February 2nd 09, 11:05 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Doug Jacobs[_2_]
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ?providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation3 liturgy wrote:
Yeah, so long as there are tremendous differences in the features and
particularly in the graphics between the previous and the new
consoles, suckers like me will shell it out for the new and shiny one.


That's a pretty big "if", if you ask me. Other than making sure the
majority of next-gen games are 1080p @ 30fps or better, I don't really see
what more can be done in the graphics area except - maybe - 3D support.
Right now 3D support is experimental, and no standard has emerged. Yet.
If that changes and the PS4 was the first/only console to support 3D
grahpics for games, that would be a huge win for Sony.

But I'm wondering if Sony is developing the PS4, if the rumor is true,
with some new generation of HDTVs in mind.


Like what? 1080p is likely to be the max. resolution for consumer TVs for
the next decade, at least. There's really nothing that needs to be done
for, say, 120hz sets or anything like that. As I said, the only real
feature that games might need to worry about in the future would be 3d.
But I think we're probably about a decade away from having any sort of
wide support for that.

What I mean is, from the PS2 and the Xbox, came the PS3 and the 360
respectively and of course you can't even begin to compare the
graphics between the SDTV and the HDTV.


True, but even then the 360 and PS3 are already doing 1080p in some
fashion right now. The games themselves aren't producing native 1080p
frames (at least, not many of them) but with faster hardware for the next
generation of consoles, there's no reason why all games shouldn't support
1080p @ 30fps at a minimum, if not 60fps or more.

And I know this is a big generalization, but your typical HDTVs are
either 720p or 1080p with 60MHz refresh rate with the newer ones now
coming out with 120MHz and with a very wide contrast ratio differences
depending on your TV and etc.


120Hz and contrast ratios will have no impact on the games or the
console's hardware.

But what I'm curious about is if Sony is developing the PS4 with the
OLED TVs in mind or some other upcoming HDTV technology for PS4 games
to be played on?


Again, this will have no impact on the console. The console doesn't care
what mechanisms your TV uses to display the pixels.

In a couple of year's time, by 2011, I'm sure great advances in OLED
and other newer HDTV technology will have been made. However, unless
the cost level of those new gen TVs are similar to what the LCD/DLP
TVs are today and Sony is projecting the new gen TV costs to be that
low, I doubt if Sony or even MS would develop their next-gen consoles,
PS4/720(?), and their games to play on the new gen TVs.

I think it'll be really, really interesting to see what the next-gen
consoles will be like and also I'm really looking forward to what the
next wave HDTVs will have to offer.


The only advances coming down the pipe for TVs are cheaper screens, and
everything will be 1080p. New screen technologies may be around, but they
aren't going to affect how consoles operate unless you start seeing things
like touch-screen surfaces. I can't see that happening though - at least
not for consumer sets. Even current research into 3D displays use current
screen technologies. Supposedly this would mean that your existing 1080p
capable screen could be used to display 3d images.

I really don't think we're going to see any more huge leaps between
generations as we have in the past. More polygons, sure but that's not
going to mean a whole lot unless the developers behind them are actually
making something interesting and fun to play.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
  #16  
Old February 2nd 09, 11:11 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
The dog from that film you saw
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ?providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011


"Doug Jacobs" wrote in message
ndwidth...



The only advances coming down the pipe for TVs are cheaper screens, and
everything will be 1080p. New screen technologies may be around, but they
aren't going to affect how consoles operate unless you start seeing things
like touch-screen surfaces. I can't see that happening though - at least
not for consumer sets. Even current research into 3D displays use current
screen technologies. Supposedly this would mean that your existing 1080p
capable screen could be used to display 3d images.

I really don't think we're going to see any more huge leaps between
generations as we have in the past. More polygons, sure but that's not
going to mean a whole lot unless the developers behind them are actually
making something interesting and fun to play.

--






60fps 1080 realtime raytracing?
or... graphics that look real? - for all the advancements over the years, a
driving game on a ps3 or a 360 doesn't look like real cars on a real track -
and upping the resolution won't solve that.



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....

  #17  
Old February 3rd 09, 02:18 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
Robert Redelmeier
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ?providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Doug Jacobs wrote in part:
That's a pretty big "if", if you ask me. Other than making sure
the majority of next-gen games are 1080p @ 30fps or better, I don't
really see what more can be done in the graphics area except - maybe -
3D support. Right now 3D support is experimental, and no standard has
emerged. Yet. If that changes and the PS4 was the first/only console
to support 3D grahpics for games, that would be a huge win for Sony.


[snip]

120Hz and contrast ratios will have no impact on the games
or the console's hardware.


These issues are connected -- one of the easier ways of producing
full-color 3D is with screen flipping and active [blinker] glasses.
For this you need a high framerate and low persistance phosphors
or other fast responding display pixels.

3D is probably easier than it looks on the [hard] software side.
Just build a twin core GPU with perspective rendering for each
eye from the same underlying geometry. A hardware solution.

As for whether it is worth it, who knows? Knowledgeable
commentators such as Ben "Yahzee" Croshaw usually complain
more about gameplay than about graphics. Gaming is supposed to
be enjoyable, often as the result of an immersive experience.
That experience can also be obtained under much more primitive
graphics (Castle Wolfenstein).

Personally I admire Nintendo's "develop interfaces" strategy, but it
is less predictable. The remarkable loyalty of fans (willingness to
pay for marginal upgrades) and simple economics make high-resolution
the preferred development path. So we get more pixels!


-- Robert

  #18  
Old February 5th 09, 07:17 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
chrisv
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ??providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

Doug Jacobs wrote:

I'd call Persona 4 one of the year's best games based on the reviews it
got. Whether it'll sell big or not, is a different story.


My teenaged daughter likes it a lot. 8)

  #19  
Old February 6th 09, 11:17 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,alt.games.video.sony-playstation3
poldy
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Default PS4 could possibly have a CELL Processor with 4 PPEs + 32 SPEs ?providing 1 TeraFlop performance in 2011

In article dth,
Doug Jacobs wrote:

That's a pretty big "if", if you ask me. Other than making sure the
majority of next-gen games are 1080p @ 30fps or better, I don't really see
what more can be done in the graphics area except - maybe - 3D support.
Right now 3D support is experimental, and no standard has emerged. Yet.
If that changes and the PS4 was the first/only console to support 3D
grahpics for games, that would be a huge win for Sony.


Better shaders, more AA, more filtering, better HDR.

Don't be surprised if they render at 720p and use upscaling to use more
lighting effects than using a higher resolution.
 




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