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Advantages of Parallel Hz



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 3rd 07, 03:43 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
MooseFET
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Posts: 109
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 1, 11:46 pm, Radium wrote:
Hi:

Below is an example of "parallel Hz"

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/242...example8is.gif

If each clock signal is 1 Hz, and you have a billion of them,
staggered such that every 1ns part of the CPU can start, and finish,
an instruction - making the effective 'clock rate' 1 GHz.


With a billion CPUs, the leakage current would kill you. If you want
real processing speed at low power, you should look at using 3 phase
clocks. There are several advantages to this. You only have to swap
two lines of the 3 phase clock to invert the order. This means that
the processor can back step. It doesn't really make a general purpose
computer but it would be very handy if you were playing jeopardy.

  #22  
Old May 3rd 07, 06:40 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
David L. Jones
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Posts: 9
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 3, 10:39 am, Radium wrote:
On May 2, 3:12 pm, Rich Grise wrote:

Maybe you should google for "pipelining"


Okay. According to my research [on google] pipelining doesn't have
much to do with "parallel Hz".

In addition, pipelining uses buffers and has significant latency. Not
something I am found of.

My dream PC does not have any buffers or latency.

My dream PC uses RAM chips -- instead of magnetic discs -- in to store
information. It is entirely chip-based.

This PC is built in such a way that it freshly generates the correct
electric signals ["on the fly"] instead of playing them back from its
ROM chips.

There are sets of instructions stored in ROMs. In the case of most PC,
these instructions load before the CPU "knows" it has a hard drive or
other peripheral devices. However, in my dream PC, those instructions
be generated in real-time instead of storing them.

I am aware that EEPROM is reliable, low power, customizable, reprogram-
able, cheap and proven. But just out of personal preference, my dream
PC is hard-wired in such a way that it does not need any ROM.

Other specs are below. The stuff below also do not need any ROM memory
because they are physically-built to generate the signals which
correspond to the following.

OS: Windows 98SE
Browser: Mozilla Suite 1.8b

No fans, no discs, no moving parts, no ROM [except for the CD/DVD
recording/playing and re-writing].

IOW, my dream PC would work perfectly but would not need any moving
parts, discs, or fans. The "HDD" would consist of silicon RAM chips in
place of disc-platters and electric parts in place of magnetic parts.
No moving parts, no noise, no fans, no magnets, no hazardous heat.


You can buy and/or build a PC like that right now.
Solid state IDE hard drives are available, and there are plenty of low
power industrial embedded PC's around that don't need fans and can run
on couple of watts. You could run 98SE on almost any low power
embedded hardware platform.
If you don't want the IDE drive you could even use DiskOnChip.

Dave.

  #23  
Old May 3rd 07, 06:52 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
Radium[_2_]
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Posts: 103
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 2, 7:43 pm, MooseFET wrote:

If you want
real processing speed at low power, you should look at using 3 phase
clocks.


The issue is not processor speed, but clock rate.


  #24  
Old May 3rd 07, 06:53 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
Radium[_2_]
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Posts: 103
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 2, 10:40 pm, "David L. Jones" wrote:

You can buy and/or build a PC like that right now.
Solid state IDE hard drives are available, and there are plenty of low
power industrial embedded PC's around that don't need fans and can run
on couple of watts. You could run 98SE on almost any low power
embedded hardware platform.
If you don't want the IDE drive you could even use DiskOnChip.


Could I plug in my SB16 ISA card into this PC? I really like my old
SB16 card because of its FM synth.

  #25  
Old May 3rd 07, 06:54 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
Radium[_2_]
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Posts: 103
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 2, 6:04 pm, (John L) wrote:

I hear that if you have nine women working in parallel, you can get a
baby in one month, too.


You are confusing *clock-rate* and *processor speed*. Although
related, they are two different things.

  #26  
Old May 3rd 07, 07:06 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
David L. Jones
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Posts: 9
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 3, 3:53 pm, Radium wrote:
On May 2, 10:40 pm, "David L. Jones" wrote:

You can buy and/or build a PC like that right now.
Solid state IDE hard drives are available, and there are plenty of low
power industrial embedded PC's around that don't need fans and can run
on couple of watts. You could run 98SE on almost any low power
embedded hardware platform.
If you don't want the IDE drive you could even use DiskOnChip.


Could I plug in my SB16 ISA card into this PC? I really like my old
SB16 card because of its FM synth.


If it has an ISA bus slot, then yes.
PC-104 format is popular with low power embedded PC's, but ISA and
other connector and form factors are available.
You can get PC-104 format SB compatible sound cards.

You can plug a solid state IDE hard drive into ANY PC. If that PC is
low enough power not to need a fan, then you have your "dream" machine
with no moving parts or noise.

Dave.

  #27  
Old May 3rd 07, 02:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
Bob Myers
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Posts: 65
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz


"Radium" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 2, 7:43 pm, MooseFET wrote:

If you want
real processing speed at low power, you should look at using 3 phase
clocks.


The issue is not processor speed, but clock rate.


Right...like you know the difference.

Don't you EVER get tired of trolling?

Bob M.


  #28  
Old May 3rd 07, 02:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
MooseFET
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Posts: 109
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On May 2, 10:52 pm, Radium wrote:
On May 2, 7:43 pm, MooseFET wrote:

If you want
real processing speed at low power, you should look at using 3 phase
clocks.


The issue is not processor speed, but clock rate.



Noboby gives a darn about clock rate. It is work done per Watt-second
that is the real issue. The 3 phase clock is the lowest number that
has an unambiguous order and thus is the lowest power one with the
property of a reversible order. With a single clock or a two phase
one, the forwards order is always assumed. This greatly limits what
the processor is able to do.

Consider a simple case like this:

You have a list of values that you need to fit a curve to. You know
that a program like this:

for I=1 to 10
print F(I)
next I

would print:

1 17 33 105 117 119 67 52 37 23

Given this you can burn a lot of CPU time figuring out exactly what
F(I) is. With a 3 phase clock, you only need the list, the program to
call the F(I) and a copy of the compiler. You simply invert the C and
B clock lines and then look at source code for F(I) to find out what
the function is. A great deal of energy is saved by doing this.

  #29  
Old May 3rd 07, 07:16 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
The little lost angel
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Posts: 210
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On 1 May 2007 23:46:36 -0700, Radium wrote:

Hi:

Below is an example of "parallel Hz"

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/242...example8is.gif


erm, didn't you go through this last year too?

The benefit of using a billion 1 Hz clock signals to make a clock rate
of 1Ghz is that such a system would not get as hot as system running
one 1 GHz clock signal . While the overall amount of heat generated by
both systems maybe around the same, the system running a billion 1 Hz
clock signals will have less heat per area than the system running one
1 billion Hz clock signal. Hence, the former system is far less
vulnerable to thermal damage than the latter.


Erm, wouldn't this simply be achievable by making a physically bigger
1Ghz chip? A single fast chip is also much more likely to perform
better for the same amount of heat since most general computing
problems are not readily parallelized, at least as far as I understand
it.

Let's say two CPUs of different frequencies have been running at the
same voltages and amperages and for the same amount of time. The CPU
with a higher-frequency will be hotter than the CPU with a lower-
frequency.


erm, DUH. Quite obviously something like a P4 running at 3Ghz will be
hotter than a P4 running at 2Ghz if both used the same voltage. The P4
3Ghz will also do more work than the P4 2Ghz, so what's your point
here?

This design would go great for any application that cannot be
efficiently parallelized [in terms of bits]. Examples of such are
arithmetics and Boolean logic.


How so? Perhas you can illustrate with an example of 1 single 40x
speed chip versus a 10 1x speed "parallel hz" chip?

As far as I can see it, if my next instruction was waiting for the
result of the preceding boolean logic result, my single 40x chip will
get me to the next result 10x faster than your 4x //Hz chip.

Since you mention the application cannot be efficiently parallelized,
I take it to mean the instructions are highly dependable on each
other's results. Thus the faster each instruction gets finished, the
faster the next can go.

Not much point having 3,999,999 //Hz units waiting 1sec for the result
of one instruction compared to a 4Ghz chip that could spit out the
next 1million instructions within the same time.

But of course I hardly qualify as a chip architect so feel free to
point out where I'm mistaken :P

--
A Lost Angel, fallen from heaven
Lost in dreams, Lost in aspirations,
Lost to the world, Lost to myself
  #30  
Old May 3rd 07, 07:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,sci.electronics.design,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,sci.electronics.basics,comp.arch
The little lost angel
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Posts: 210
Default Advantages of Parallel Hz

On 2 May 2007 17:39:20 -0700, Radium wrote:

This PC is built in such a way that it freshly generates the correct
electric signals ["on the fly"] instead of playing them back from its
ROM chips.


And how does it know how to generate the correct signals?

There are sets of instructions stored in ROMs. In the case of most PC,
these instructions load before the CPU "knows" it has a hard drive or
other peripheral devices. However, in my dream PC, those instructions
be generated in real-time instead of storing them.


Isn't it more efficient to calculate static results beforehand and
store them for use, than to waste time generating the same
instructions all the time?


Other specs are below. The stuff below also do not need any ROM memory
because they are physically-built to generate the signals which
correspond to the following.

OS: Windows 98SE
Browser: Mozilla Suite 1.8b


In other words, your system is not upgradable and has to live with
whatever bugs there are for the entire "useful" life of the system
since everything's hardwired?

To put it simply, what I am describing is a PC that does not need to
store any information because all of the signal codings for the info
is generated in real-time.


A PC that does not store any information... what good is it for?

Most importantly, though, my dream PC uses parallel-Hz and is
massively-serial!!


And so ?


--
A Lost Angel, fallen from heaven
Lost in dreams, Lost in aspirations,
Lost to the world, Lost to myself
 




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