RFC: Sony Playstation-3 the next IBM PC?

I will write this, because it is a sort of funny conclusion I came to
yesterday.
It affects this groups subject, no I am not a gamer, do not have a ps2 or
xbox no.

This is the 'train of thought':

Many people in Europe use an old PC (say K6 or Duron) as video recorder for
digital satellite TV, 'VDR' is such a project, and I have done some
( http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/ ) of similar stuff myself.
Now HD Television is here, and the first transmissions have started.

The issue is, you can easily record these HDTV streams, it is only 12Mbits /
second here, but the H264 encoded movies will not playback on a simple PC,
you would need either a (currently) high end graphics card with H264
acceleration (ATI 600$ and up), and then upgrade to PCI express for these
cards... And to a better processor, and H264 needs equivalent of dual P4
3.2 GHz without acceleration, so then you do not need that card....
The other catch is everything is going to HDMI interface with the monitors.

All many $$$ to upgrade.
So I investigated several possible path to do this as cheap as possible.

The last one was a close look at the Sony Play-station-3 specs.
Now that has 2x HDMI out, s-video too, Ethernet in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pl...specifications

And it runs Linux it seems.

So in theory one could use the cheap boxes that already exist for recording
TV, stream the 12Mbits H264 over ethernet to the play-station-3, and, as that
can decode H264 even in 180 progressive, interface in HDMI to the TV.

Then I realized that I could perhaps also use the PS3 as server, as it
would be on the LAN anyways that way, and can run my web and FTP server.

Then I realized that as it should be able to run X it should also be able to
run my applications, StarOffice, newsreader, what not....
Also it is small and silent and fits the ever growing integration concept,
gives me some interesting games....

I do not have one, but sure am interested to get my hands on one now.
Then I realized IBM sold the PC business to the Chinese, why sell something?
You no longer need it, because you have something better,.

IBM is making all Cell processor stuff available to Linux developers (I
downloaded it some time ago).

Then it hit me:
IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:28:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

The issue is, you can easily record these HDTV streams, it is only 12Mbits /
second here, but the H264 encoded movies will not playback on a simple PC,
you would need either a (currently) high end graphics card with H264
acceleration (ATI 600$ and up), and then upgrade to PCI express for these
cards... And to a better processor, and H264 needs equivalent of dual P4
3.2 GHz without acceleration, so then you do not need that card....
The other catch is everything is going to HDMI interface with the monitors.

Can I question this part? I am quite sure my friend played back a H264
HDTV clip on my laptop a few weeks back. It was a couple of hundred MB
for just a few minutes worth of a MTV (I'll try to check with him if I
catch him). I certainly don't consider my 1.7Ghz laptop anywhere near
the equivalent of a Dual P4 3.2Ghz with a hardware accelerated H264
graphics.

So without the neeed for a new platform, I think a relatively entry
level PC will do the trick of being a Linux based server/media center
and even game machine.

--
A Lost Angel, fallen from heaven
Lost in dreams, Lost in aspirations,
Lost to the world, Lost to myself

The little lost angel wrote:
Can I question this part? I am quite sure my friend played back a H264
HDTV clip on my laptop a few weeks back. It was a couple of hundred MB
for just a few minutes worth of a MTV (I'll try to check with him if I
catch him). I certainly don't consider my 1.7Ghz laptop anywhere near
the equivalent of a Dual P4 3.2Ghz with a hardware accelerated H264
graphics.

As usual, there is a vast difference in the amount of power it takes to
encode it vs. to decode it. Jan was talking about using it as a PVR kind
of project.

Yousuf Khan

Jan Panteltje wrote:
IBM is making all Cell processor stuff available to Linux developers (I
downloaded it some time ago).

I think IBM does mean you to use H264 (i.e. Super-MPEG-4) with the Cell
processor. It was one of Cell's marketing hotpoints: streaming video.

Then it hit me:
IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. Even Linux apps are more greatly
available on x86 than on anything else.

Yousuf Khan

Jan Panteltje wrote in part:
The last one was a close look at the Sony Play-station-3
specs. Now that has 2x HDMI out, s-video too, Ethernet in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pl...specifications
[snip]
Then it hit me: IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

In a word: NO. Not for technical reasons, because the CPU
is more than enough and a 1080i HDTV would make a fine monitor.

The problem is psycho-social, much like what stops voice
recognition software from becoming the dominant UI. People
like public entertainment (sound, stage, TV) but like private
communications & reading. No-one likes a shoulder-surfer.

-- Robert

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:28:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

The last one was a close look at the Sony Play-station-3 specs.
Now that has 2x HDMI out, s-video too, Ethernet in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pl...specifications

And it runs Linux it seems.

So in theory one could use the cheap boxes that already exist for recording
TV, stream the 12Mbits H264 over ethernet to the play-station-3, and, as that
can decode H264 even in 180 progressive, interface in HDMI to the TV.

Then I realized that I could perhaps also use the PS3 as server, as it
would be on the LAN anyways that way, and can run my web and FTP server.

Then I realized that as it should be able to run X it should also be able to
run my applications, StarOffice, newsreader, what not....
Also it is small and silent and fits the ever growing integration concept,
gives me some interesting games....

I do not have one, but sure am interested to get my hands on one now.
Then I realized IBM sold the PC business to the Chinese, why sell something?
You no longer need it, because you have something better,.

IBM is making all Cell processor stuff available to Linux developers (I
downloaded it some time ago).

Then it hit me:
IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

In a word: NO. At least not before Bill Gates' blessing in form of
Windows version for Cell/PS3 or some form of emulation as the one
rumored to be in the works for MacOS X. With all due respect to
alternative OSes of all kind, they are marginal next to Windows, and
will stay marginal for the foreseeable future. Even according to the
stats of PC sales. And almost certainly all the data on Linux PC
sales is screwed because most of these PCs end up re-formatted with
pirated Windows in a matter of days, maybe hours after the sale.

NNN

What resolution of h264 are you shooting for? Is it 720p, 1080i, or
1080p, what I want to know is if you can go the other route. Say stream
Blu-Ray to a Gnu/Linux box?

What I don't like is all the DRM, that is going to be with the PS3
requiring HDMI for 1080p playback of Blu-Ray, and what not. To me this
is a wait and see approach, if Sony gets this right then it could be a
must have option. If it could stream Blu-Ray over ethernet, then it
could really be a good thing.

As far as h264 playback Nvidia stated that all 6000 and up gpu's will
have h264 support with drivers. This might only be for Windows but if
true, you should be able to use your old cpu, with a 6200 or 6600
Nvidia gpu and have the same results. Now this might not work under
Gnu/Linux as we all know its the last to get driver updates, but we can
only hope.

Gnu_Raiz

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:16:01 -0500) it happened Yousuf Khan
wrote in :

Jan Panteltje wrote:
IBM is making all Cell processor stuff available to Linux developers (I
downloaded it some time ago).

I think IBM does mean you to use H264 (i.e. Super-MPEG-4) with the Cell
processor. It was one of Cell's marketing hotpoints: streaming video.

Then it hit me:
IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. Even Linux apps are more greatly
available on x86 than on anything else.
True.
But for any Linux app. that has the source code available, it is just a
question of recompiling.

IBM claims that all power PC apps run on the cell without change, but can
be recompiled to take advantage of the help of one or more of the 7 SPE
little 'help' processors in the Cell.

So the Cell has one power PC core, and 7 smaller processors.
One of these smaller ones can be used to decode H264 main profile.

Have a look here at the power of Cell versus normal PC processors:
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerwork.../?ca=drs-#ref1

Of course having 7 extra very fast processor cores that share memory via DMA
with the main PPC is exiting :-)


Yousuf Khan

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:55:17 GMT) it happened Robert Redelmeier
wrote in
:

Jan Panteltje wrote in part:
The last one was a close look at the Sony Play-station-3
specs. Now that has 2x HDMI out, s-video too, Ethernet in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pl...specifications
[snip]
Then it hit me: IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

In a word: NO. Not for technical reasons, because the CPU
is more than enough and a 1080i HDTV would make a fine monitor.

The problem is psycho-social, much like what stops voice
recognition software from becoming the dominant UI. People
like public entertainment (sound, stage, TV) but like private
communications & reading. No-one likes a shoulder-surfer.

It has *2* HDMI outputs, and ANY of the 7 SPE can do decoding.. No
reason why one could not do the TV, and the other one a normal monitor.
It also has component out....
Maybe I misunderstood you?

On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:01:22 GMT) it happened
" wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:28:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
wrote:

The last one was a close look at the Sony Play-station-3 specs.
Now that has 2x HDMI out, s-video too, Ethernet in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pl...specifications

And it runs Linux it seems.

So in theory one could use the cheap boxes that already exist for recording
TV, stream the 12Mbits H264 over ethernet to the play-station-3, and, as that
can decode H264 even in 180 progressive, interface in HDMI to the TV.

Then I realized that I could perhaps also use the PS3 as server, as it
would be on the LAN anyways that way, and can run my web and FTP server.

Then I realized that as it should be able to run X it should also be able to
run my applications, StarOffice, newsreader, what not....
Also it is small and silent and fits the ever growing integration concept,
gives me some interesting games....

I do not have one, but sure am interested to get my hands on one now.
Then I realized IBM sold the PC business to the Chinese, why sell something?
You no longer need it, because you have something better,.

IBM is making all Cell processor stuff available to Linux developers (I
downloaded it some time ago).

Then it hit me:
IS Sony PlayStation-3 the next IBM PC?

In a word: NO. At least not before Bill Gates' blessing in form of
Windows version for Cell/PS3 or some form of emulation as the one
rumored to be in the works for MacOS X. With all due respect to
alternative OSes of all kind, they are marginal next to Windows, and
will stay marginal for the foreseeable future. Even according to the
stats of PC sales. And almost certainly all the data on Linux PC
sales is screwed because most of these PCs end up re-formatted with
pirated Windows in a matter of days, maybe hours after the sale.


LOL, sees mlike Billy The Gates came ito life by buying that quick and
dirty MS DOS so IBM had an OS.

Seems to me IBM had Linux for this one in house and needs no MS.
:-)

I did realize that MS share must now head towards earth....
Because it will take him some time to port MS windows to PlayStation 3
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHOaaaaHAHAHAHA LOL hehehe
LOL