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Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 25th 05, 04:13 PM
Joe Seigh
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YKhan wrote:
Del Cecchi wrote:
doesn't ring any bells from comp.arch
Has only a few posts on groups.google.com search, my guess is
comp.sys.intel



Oh well, it just seems the comp.arch group produces an abundance of
dreamers. It's like a Beatnik Speakeasy for chip geeks. It's like the
technological equivalent of artsies. All of the "Alpha coulda ruled the
world types" seem to hang out there.

Along with the (transputer | iAPX-432 | TMS9900) coulda ruled the world
types. I only mention TMS9900 because even though it had memory mapped
registers, to a programmer it looked real good compared to the 8088 ISA.
You can substitute your favorite failed obscure processor there.


--
Joe Seigh

When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
  #12  
Old September 25th 05, 08:45 PM
Anton Ertl
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"Nathan Bates" writes:
About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD.
There were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's.
Why?


Intel have the Killing Roadmap (think Monty Python) that makes
executives immediately bet their company's future on the roadmap.
Worked for Compaq, SGI, HP, and now Apple.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
  #13  
Old September 26th 05, 12:05 AM
Yousuf Khan
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Nathan Bates wrote:
I would hardly call the knowledge they gained in hyperthreading to be
knowledge that will come in handy later. Whatever they learned about HT
was only relevent to a Pentium 4, it can't apply to Pentium M.




That's like saying none of the knowledge gained from
the P6 design carried over to the Williamette design.


You might as well say that the knowledge they gained in Hyperthreading
will help them design an SMT Xscale. Sure, it might, but it's like
textbook knowledge -- they are still at square one the next time around.

About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD.
There were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's.
Why?


That falls into the wishful thinking category. It's been stated that
Intel is going to have a new secret weapon that will just blow AMD right
out of the water next year; this has been stated in the same way for the
past three years now. So far everything Intel has turned out has been
laughably outclassed by the competition. Even the rumours so far have
Intel only developing processors next year that are still behind what
AMD already had in 2003.

Yes, I'm sure Jobs has looked at their roadmap. Perhaps the most
intriguing roadmap that he saw was Intel's MDF roadmap? That is, MDF =
market development funds.

Turning to the server-blade market, when you need more racks of blades,
the consideration is packing as much processing performance per watt
(and space).


That seems to be one of the biggest reasons why AMD is doing so well in
servers now. They have special ultra-low-power Opterons doing 30W for
this market.

There is only so much instruction parallelism in one thread of code.
Single-threaded superscalars core often stall because of
data dependencies, resource locks, cache misses,etc.
Multi-threaded (parallel) cores are the future.


Again, another reason why AMD is doing so well these days. They brought
64-bit x86 out first, which was intriguing, but they really ignited the
rockets once dual-core was introduced.

Yousuf Khan
  #14  
Old September 26th 05, 12:47 AM
keith
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:45:12 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:

"Nathan Bates" writes:
About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD. There
were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's. Why?


Intel have the Killing Roadmap (think Monty Python) that makes executives
immediately bet their company's future on the roadmap. Worked for Compaq,
SGI, HP, and now Apple.


You got it! They'll simply bite the leggs off the competition. ;-)

--
Keith

  #15  
Old September 26th 05, 12:53 AM
keith
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:05:26 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:

tight snip

Again, another reason why AMD is doing so well these days. They brought
64-bit x86 out first,


While Intel was dragging heels, thinking the world would adore Itanic
because it was 64bit, or sumpin'.

which was intriguing, but they really ignited the rockets once
dual-core was introduced.


I disagree, sorta. Intel cooled its jets with Itanic. They haven't
yet recovered from that disaster plan. OTOH, AMD has executed their
plan rather well.

--
Keith
  #16  
Old September 26th 05, 01:10 AM
Del Cecchi
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"keith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:45:12 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:

"Nathan Bates" writes:
About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD.
There
were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's. Why?


Intel have the Killing Roadmap (think Monty Python) that makes
executives
immediately bet their company's future on the roadmap. Worked for
Compaq,
SGI, HP, and now Apple.


You got it! They'll simply bite the leggs off the competition. ;-)

--
Keith

leggs? The competition wears nylon stockings or pantyhose? kinky, dude.



  #17  
Old September 26th 05, 02:40 AM
keith
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On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:10:44 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:


"keith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:45:12 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:

"Nathan Bates" writes:
About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD. There
were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's. Why?

Intel have the Killing Roadmap (think Monty Python) that makes
executives
immediately bet their company's future on the roadmap. Worked for
Compaq,
SGI, HP, and now Apple.


You got it! They'll simply bite the leggs off the competition. ;-)

--
Keith

leggs? The competition wears nylon stockings or pantyhose? kinky, dude.


I thought you knew me better. ;-)

--
Keith


  #18  
Old September 26th 05, 04:25 AM
Del Cecchi
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Posts: n/a
Default


"keith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:10:44 -0500, Del Cecchi wrote:


"keith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:45:12 +0000, Anton Ertl wrote:

"Nathan Bates" writes:
About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD.
There
were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's. Why?

Intel have the Killing Roadmap (think Monty Python) that makes
executives
immediately bet their company's future on the roadmap. Worked for
Compaq,
SGI, HP, and now Apple.

You got it! They'll simply bite the leggs off the competition. ;-)

--
Keith

leggs? The competition wears nylon stockings or pantyhose? kinky,
dude.


I thought you knew me better. ;-)

--
Keith

never saw you without long pants. Too cold for shorts up there in the
green mts? Or you just can't spell?



  #19  
Old September 26th 05, 06:10 AM
YKhan
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EdG wrote:
That seems to be one of the biggest reasons why AMD is doing so well in
servers now. They have special ultra-low-power Opterons doing 30W for
this market.


you see the Sun/Opteron ads versus DELL... 50% faster, 66% more energy
efficient... http://www.sun.com/emrkt/rejected/index.html


And that's using overclocked CPUs too. It's still more power-efficient.

Yousuf Khan

  #20  
Old September 26th 05, 06:19 AM
YKhan
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Nathan Bates wrote:
That's like saying none of the knowledge gained from
the P6 design carried over to the Williamette design.

About the Mac, Jobs looked at the roadmaps of both Intel and AMD.
There were other factors, but Jobs was more intrigued by Intel's.
Why?


Another thing to note. A familiar refrain is that Intel can outspend
AMD in R&D by several times. This is true. Then usually the next
refrain is that because of this Intel can catch up with AMD anytime it
wants. This has not been proven.

They may say that two heads are better than one. However, nobody has
ever proven that five hundred heads are better than one hundred heads.

Yousuf Khan

 




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