Hard drive requires explanation

This is getting stranger and stranger. Now I'm beginning to suspect the damned
DeskPro EN SFF Version 3.13 BIOS.

First, I installed a 20GB Seagate in the system. Neither FDISK nor Windows 2000
install would recognize the drive as larger than 8GB (8064K), even tho the BIOS
acknowledged it as 20GB, and the Seagate diagnostics did, too.

Next, I installed a 15.3GB Maxtor in the system. Windows 2000 installed itself
on a 15.3GB partition.

I guess that my next step is to try the WD400BB drive in a system known to be
able to handle 40GB drives. If it shows up as 40GB there, I'll have to conclude
that Compaq crippled the hard drive capacity in the Version 3.13 BIOS. And if
that's the case, it would be stupid, indeed... Ben Myers

No, the 20GB Seagate did not work correctly. FDISK and Win 2000 install both
saw only 8064MB or so. I now think there is a bizarre BIOS limitation like I've
never seen before. The 32GB barrier would be unfortunate but understandable,
altho Intel and other more generic motherboards from the same era top out at the
newer 132GB. No jumper issues with the 20GB. Checked and double checked this
all too often.

But a 15.3GB Maxtor DOES work perfectly, which says that the BIOS hard disk
capacity limit is somewhere between 15.3 and 20, probably 16GB. But I'm only
speculating, because Compaq never provided any printed info on the inherent disk
BIOS limitations... Ben Myers

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:12:30 GMT, "David" wrote:

So the 20GB worked correctly? I think that would rule out a prob with the
BIOS although some P3's will have a 32GB limit. I don't see anywhere if you
tried the drive in a different machine. Do you get the same result? I'm sure
you checked already, but be sure the capacity is not clipped by a jumper
setting. 10GB would bee an odd limit anyway..

You might try over in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Christian,

No luck. I've done that several times.

Again, the BIOS (that's BIOS) AND DLGDIAG report a 10GB capacity. The
motherboard BIOS setup does not read the MBR at all to determine drive
capacity.
It uses register-level commands to access the hard-coded (flash or EEPROM)
block
of data which describes the characteristics of the drive. At least,
that's what
a normal BIOS does, as do low-level utilities like DLGDIAG.

For other reasons, I'm coming to the conclusion that the DeskPro EN BIOS
is not
quite what it seems. A Pentium 3 BIOS should be capable of handling
drives with
a fairly large capacity. Several things I've done since installing a 20GB
Seagate lead me to wonder about how the DeskPro EN BIOS interacts with it.
Possibly the problem is a BIOS one, but I still doubt it.

However, does anybody have any information based on specs or real world
use
regarding the BIOS limits of Version 3.11 or 3.13 of the 686P3 BIOS in the
DeskPro EN small form-factor computer? Thanks much... Ben Myers

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:14:55 +0100, Christian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=FCrrhauer?=
wrote:

On the seventh day, ben_myers_spam_me_not wrote...

I'll run DLGDIAG again to see if zeroing the drive fixes the situation,
but I am
dubious. I still think the drive firmware got cobbled up.

I'd bet the mystery is going to solve itself when you zero out the MBR.
Look forward to hearing from you...

--
mit freundlichen Grüßen/with kind regards
Christian Dürrhauer, Institute of Geography, FU Berlin

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop
diggin'.

That would be a first. I've heard of 32GB on rare occasions, 8gb and 137gb
frequently, but never 16gb
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
No, the 20GB Seagate did not work correctly. FDISK and Win 2000 install
both
saw only 8064MB or so. I now think there is a bizarre BIOS limitation
like I've
never seen before. The 32GB barrier would be unfortunate but
understandable,
altho Intel and other more generic motherboards from the same era top out
at the
newer 132GB. No jumper issues with the 20GB. Checked and double checked
this
all too often.

But a 15.3GB Maxtor DOES work perfectly, which says that the BIOS hard
disk
capacity limit is somewhere between 15.3 and 20, probably 16GB. But I'm
only
speculating, because Compaq never provided any printed info on the
inherent disk
BIOS limitations... Ben Myers

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:12:30 GMT, "David" wrote:

So the 20GB worked correctly? I think that would rule out a prob with the
BIOS although some P3's will have a 32GB limit. I don't see anywhere if
you
tried the drive in a different machine. Do you get the same result? I'm
sure
you checked already, but be sure the capacity is not clipped by a jumper
setting. 10GB would bee an odd limit anyway..

You might try over in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Christian,

No luck. I've done that several times.

Again, the BIOS (that's BIOS) AND DLGDIAG report a 10GB capacity. The
motherboard BIOS setup does not read the MBR at all to determine drive
capacity.
It uses register-level commands to access the hard-coded (flash or
EEPROM)
block
of data which describes the characteristics of the drive. At least,
that's what
a normal BIOS does, as do low-level utilities like DLGDIAG.

For other reasons, I'm coming to the conclusion that the DeskPro EN BIOS
is not
quite what it seems. A Pentium 3 BIOS should be capable of handling
drives with
a fairly large capacity. Several things I've done since installing a
20GB
Seagate lead me to wonder about how the DeskPro EN BIOS interacts with
it.
Possibly the problem is a BIOS one, but I still doubt it.

However, does anybody have any information based on specs or real world
use
regarding the BIOS limits of Version 3.11 or 3.13 of the 686P3 BIOS in
the
DeskPro EN small form-factor computer? Thanks much... Ben Myers

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:14:55 +0100, Christian
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=FCrrhauer?=
wrote:

On the seventh day, ben_myers_spam_me_not wrote...

I'll run DLGDIAG again to see if zeroing the drive fixes the
situation,
but I am
dubious. I still think the drive firmware got cobbled up.

I'd bet the mystery is going to solve itself when you zero out the MBR.
Look forward to hearing from you...

--
mit freundlichen Grüßen/with kind regards
Christian Dürrhauer, Institute of Geography, FU Berlin

If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop
diggin'.

Yes, me, too. DEC Pentium II & Pentium Pro computers with a Phoenix BIOS had a
bizarre limitation of 15 heads, which required manual setup with a max hard
drive capacity of 15/16 of 8.4GB, however much that is. And Micronics Pentium
motherboards with Phoenix (again) BIOS had a 4.2GB limit.

Otherwise, I'll be darned if I can explain why 15.3GB formats with full capacity
and 20GB does not. The DeskPro EN Version 3.13 BIOS has two different "BIOS
translation options": "extended LBA" and "bit shift". What in hell is
bit-shift? With this BIOS, I'm more inclined to think there is an extra f in
bit-shift. Either way, the Seagate 20GB drive does not format to its full 20GB
capacity, even when using Seagate's Seatools to set up the 20GB partition.

Oh. yeah. I blew away the MBR and partition table with every trial with the
20GB drive... Ben Myers

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:33:14 -0500, "Tom Scales" wrote:

That would be a first. I've heard of 32GB on rare occasions, 8gb and 137gb
frequently, but never 16gb

Well, I finally took the WD400BB drive and put it in a Micron system with an
Intel branded D815 chipset and a 45GB IBM drive originally. The WD400BB drive
showed up in the BIOS as having a 10GB capacity. So it's not the Compaq SFF
BIOS, altho it, too, seems a bit crippled compared to similar vintage systems.
It's the damned drive with firmware doctored up to make just 10GB usable. What
a waste... Ben Myers

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 02:17:43 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

Picked up a nice little 733MHz Compaq Deskpro small form factor box at a
corporate yardsale recently. Original specs of 128MB, 10GB, 48x CD, Win 2000
Pro. Upgraded to 256MB. Nice computer.

Opened up the chassis and saw a Western Digital WD400BB disk drive in it.
Looked up the specs at the WD web site. Yep. 40GB. Great! More than I'd
bargained for.

Went into the computer's BIOS setup pressing F10. The BIOS reported the drive
manufacturer and model correctly, but showed the capacity as 10GB. I downloaded
the last 3.13 BIOS for the beast, and flashed the BIOS. Still 10GB capacity.
Ran WD's DLGDIAG drive diagnostics which showed a capacity (hold your breath
now) of 10GB.

Next, I hooked up another 40GB drive and the BIOS reported it correctly as 40GB,
which ruled out some sort of BIOS limitation on hard drive capacity.

The WD400BB drive has a large drive sticker (typical WD) showing a Compaq part
number. It also has an HP sticker on it, and a Compaq spare part number
sticker. The drive was manufactured in July 2003 (just out of warranty), so I'm
speculating that it was a replacement drive for a system under extended
warranty, because the original was made in 2000.

So what happened here? One possible explanation:

By 2003, WD (and Maxtor and all the rest) had stopped producing 10GB drives, and
HPaq needed spares as replacements. So HPaq contracted with WD to cobble up
40GB drives with drive firmware allowing only 10GB to be used. Sheesh! The
least they could have done would have been to paste a 10GB sticker on the drive.

Any other explanation? HP has done similar things in the distant past, but I
would be digressing.

Any idea how to use the entire 40GB capacity? Anybody have a WD400BB which
suffered a head crash? Swapping circuit boards could do the trick. Anybody
know how to reprogram hard drive firmware? ... Ben Myers

Ben,
Sounds like manufacturing at Compaq ran out of 10GB drives and had some
extra 40GB ones laying around. Also sounds typical of Compaq, unfortunately,
to cripple the drive firmware to make only 10GB usable.
HH


ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Well, I finally took the WD400BB drive and put it in a Micron system with
an
Intel branded D815 chipset and a 45GB IBM drive originally. The WD400BB
drive
showed up in the BIOS as having a 10GB capacity. So it's not the Compaq
SFF
BIOS, altho it, too, seems a bit crippled compared to similar vintage
systems.
It's the damned drive with firmware doctored up to make just 10GB usable.
What
a waste... Ben Myers

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 02:17:43 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben
Myers) wrote:

Picked up a nice little 733MHz Compaq Deskpro small form factor box at a
corporate yardsale recently. Original specs of 128MB, 10GB, 48x CD, Win
2000
Pro. Upgraded to 256MB. Nice computer.

Opened up the chassis and saw a Western Digital WD400BB disk drive in it.
Looked up the specs at the WD web site. Yep. 40GB. Great! More than
I'd
bargained for.

Went into the computer's BIOS setup pressing F10. The BIOS reported the
drive
manufacturer and model correctly, but showed the capacity as 10GB. I
downloaded
the last 3.13 BIOS for the beast, and flashed the BIOS. Still 10GB
capacity.
Ran WD's DLGDIAG drive diagnostics which showed a capacity (hold your
breath
now) of 10GB.

Next, I hooked up another 40GB drive and the BIOS reported it correctly as
40GB,
which ruled out some sort of BIOS limitation on hard drive capacity.

The WD400BB drive has a large drive sticker (typical WD) showing a Compaq
part
number. It also has an HP sticker on it, and a Compaq spare part number
sticker. The drive was manufactured in July 2003 (just out of warranty),
so I'm
speculating that it was a replacement drive for a system under extended
warranty, because the original was made in 2000.

So what happened here? One possible explanation:

By 2003, WD (and Maxtor and all the rest) had stopped producing 10GB
drives, and
HPaq needed spares as replacements. So HPaq contracted with WD to cobble
up
40GB drives with drive firmware allowing only 10GB to be used. Sheesh!
The
least they could have done would have been to paste a 10GB sticker on the
drive.

Any other explanation? HP has done similar things in the distant past,
but I
would be digressing.

Any idea how to use the entire 40GB capacity? Anybody have a WD400BB
which
suffered a head crash? Swapping circuit boards could do the trick.
Anybody
know how to reprogram hard drive firmware? ... Ben Myers

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:42:43 -0500, "HH" wrote:

Ben,
Sounds like manufacturing at Compaq ran out of 10GB drives and had some
extra 40GB ones laying around. Also sounds typical of Compaq, unfortunately,
to cripple the drive firmware to make only 10GB usable.
HH

Pretty much what I've concluded, especially given that the DeskPro SFF BIOS also
seeems quite limited in its BIOS hard drive capacity... Ben Myers

I have the same problem with a WD307AA 30gb, a Maxtor Fireball 30, and
Samsung 20gb. I tried to clean these drives with WD Data Lifeguar
Tools, and they died. They then reported a smaller size drive vi
FDISK. I then tried the W982E Start UP Fdd, Format C: FDISK t
partition to100%, and reformat. No good! They still report smalle
drive sizes. The funny thing is, every time I tried to fix the HD’s
they got smaller. I’m down to 16 MB’s, yes MB’s on the drives. I thin
the WDDLGT’s may have been contaminated, or the Start Up FDD was.
also used W2k’s 4 Start Up Fdds’, but no go either. I Zeroed out all
did a Fdisk /MBR …noting changed. The drives are still small or have n
partitions at all, and will not take any FDISK or FORMAT. I think th
Firmware (?) may have been contaminated. I searched the web fo
anything that will redo a HD to factory specs, but found nothing.
called the MFG’s but got no where. I’m about ready to buy new HD’s An
suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
BillBerit




Ben Myers Wrote:
I downloaded slate, copied it to a boiotable DOS floppy and ran it.
Same
result. The WD400BB still shows up only 10GB in the system BIOS. Thi
is what
I thought would happen, because the WD DLGDIAG diagnostic did the sam
thing by
writing zeroes to all sectors on the drive, including the MBR an
partition
table.

I'm going to pull the drive anyway, and replace it with a 20GB Seagat
to sell
to a client.

Thank you for the suggestion, even though to no avail... Ben Myers


On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:13:23 GMT, "JP Loken"
wrote:
-
På Wed, 03 Nov 2004 02:17:43 GMT, skrev ben_myers_spam_me_not @
charter.net:
-
Opened up the chassis and saw a Western Digital WD400BB disk drive i
it.
Looked up the specs at the WD web site. Yep. 40GB. Great! Mor
than
I'd
bargained for.

Went into the computer's BIOS setup pressing F10. The BIOS reporte
the
drive
manufacturer and model correctly, but showed the capacity as 10GB. I
downloaded
the last 3.13 BIOS for the beast, and flashed the BIOS. Still 10GB
capacity.
Ran WD's DLGDIAG drive diagnostics which showed a capacity (hold your
breath
now) of 10GB.-
snip-
Any idea how to use the entire 40GB capacity? Anybody have a WD400BB
which
suffered a head crash? Swapping circuit boards could do the trick.
Anybody
know how to reprogram hard drive firmware? ... Ben Myers-

I've had a similar experience with a hdd. (I cannot remember, though
how
it showed up in the BIOS.)
The drive had been dual-booting Windows and Linux. Later Linux hadn'
been
removed properly.
I didn't know the history of the drive then, and used all the tricks
you've been mentioning.

I finally succeded using a small program called "Slate". It removes
everything, and I mean *everything* on a hdd.
(Warning! Be sure which drive you choose to delete.)
Afterwards the drive showed up as it should.


--
JP Loken
Using M2 - Opera

--
BillBerit

Well, at least I don't feel like I'm alone, and I'm definitely not crazy. It's
very interesting that you had the same sort of experience with three different
makes of drives.

In my case, I am now convinced that either WD or Compaq deliberately cripped the
WD400BB drive firmware to have only 10GB of capacity, because that was the hard
drive capacity delivered with an original DeskPro EN SFF computer, which also
appears to suffer from a serious limitation in IDE hard drive capacity supported
by its BIOS. I'll also bet that the WD400BB was either a spare part replacement
or a factory installed disk manufactured after WD stopped making the 10GB
drives.

Your posting prompted me to google a bit. I found this URL on the HPaq web site
with downloadable firmware updates for Seagate, Maxtor, and WD drives:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/fi...scat/4_95.html

I just downloaded the WD firmware file. Hey, it's worth a try... Ben Myers

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 18:26:15 +0000, BillBerit
wrote:


I have the same problem with a WD307AA 30gb, a Maxtor Fireball 30, and a
Samsung 20gb. I tried to clean these drives with WD Data Lifeguard
Tools, and they died. They then reported a smaller size drive via
FDISK. I then tried the W982E Start UP Fdd, Format C: FDISK to
partition to100%, and reformat. No good! They still report smaller
drive sizes. The funny thing is, every time I tried to fix the HD’s,
they got smaller. I’m down to 16 MB’s, yes MB’s on the drives. I think
the WDDLGT’s may have been contaminated, or the Start Up FDD was. I
also used W2k’s 4 Start Up Fdds’, but no go either. I Zeroed out all,
did a Fdisk /MBR …noting changed. The drives are still small or have no
partitions at all, and will not take any FDISK or FORMAT. I think the
Firmware (?) may have been contaminated. I searched the web for
anything that will redo a HD to factory specs, but found nothing. I
called the MFG’s but got no where. I’m about ready to buy new HD’s Any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
BillBerit