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Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 27th 06, 07:59 PM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
[email protected]
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Posts: 7
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm

Posting to c.o.l.s because machine runs only Linux, to a.s.p.c because
it's clearly a Compaq firmware issue, and to c.o.l.h because the
firmware might
as well be hardware, since I don't (yet) know how to change it.

This problem is not for the faint of heart. I have read the manuals on
the Compaq
website, tried the obvious remedies (see below for gory details) and
they haven't
worked. My other Linux machines work just fine :-)

The Problem Machine is one of the Compaqs from about 1997/8 without a
"real"
BIOS. It's a compact desktop Pentium II 233Mhz 96MB 2.1GB+2.4GB.
There is
no obvious way to tell its exact model number, but at boot time the
screen displays
"Deskpro 4000", a category containing at least 20 models.

When I installed Linux on this machine, it had its original HDs which
had been used for Windows 9x. I deleted the Diagnostic/ Setup
partition,
not knowing any reason not to :-), repartitioned and reformatted for
Linux.
There was no problem - Linux booted fine from the first HD or floppy or
CD.
When I wanted more HD space, I replaced the first HD (HD0, or /dev/hda)

with a known good one containing a bootable Linux, and also replaced
the
second HD with a larger one. (The first HD is now a Maxtor 10GB, and
the second a Western Digital 10GB. I mention the manufacturers because
I have heard rumors of boot-time incompatibility of certain pairs of
drives, but I have no definite info. 10GB is also , I think, greater
than a magic number - 8.x GB? - in certain kinds of BIOS firmware.)
There are no MSDOS or Windows partitions.

Now the Compaq firmware won't boot from the HD ("1790 - Disk 0 error"),
and it wants me to run the Compaq setup utility (at one point it
displayed
"If you are running Unix, you still need to use the Compaq utility to
configure
the hard disk").

The new first HD is in fact present and functioning, because I can boot
its active partition from a SmartBootManager floppy, or mount, read and
write it when booted from a Linux CD. No problems with the second HD
or the floppy drive either, once booted. So I didn't _obviously_ botch
the
hardware replacement, though there may still be something subtly wrong.
The new first HD was the first HD of two on the same controller in its
previous machine, and also in its current machine. I just left its
jumpers
as they were, though I have no key for how they should be.

OK. I downloaded the self-extracting archive sp8126.exe (PC Diagnostic
and Setup Utilities) from the Compaq website, verified it using unzip
-vt
on another Linux machine and ran it under dosemu (because I don't have
an
MS machine). The resulting 2 setup/diagnostic boot disks will happily
boot to menus on this other machine, but on the Problem Machine, they
each just give "Starting MS-DOS" followed by a hang. FWIW, soft reboot
(shutdown -r now) also hangs (and always did) under Linux on the
Problem Machine even if I've booted from a CD which remains in the
drive.

The floppy drive is OK, because I was able using the "other" machine to
create two different bootable floppies (FreeDos and SmartBootManager)
which successfully boot on the Problem Machine.

I found an apparently similar case on the net where someone claimed
that the problem could be solved (and the setup utilities could be run)
by moving the floppy drive to "the other connector on the ribbon cable,
the one without the twist". On the Problem Machine, there is no such
other connector, and never has been, and if there were, it is not clear

how it would help, because it would presumably move the floppy drive
to the B: role (/dev/fd1), which is not supposed(?) to be bootable at
all,
whereas I can currently at least boot SmartBootManager or FreeDos
from A: (/dev/fd0).

I'm fairly indifferent about actually restoring the setup partition,
since
Compaq says the setup can be run from floppies, and I don't expect
to need to run it often; but I would _really_ like to be able to boot
the Problem Machine from its present HD.

Any clues will be much appreciated.

-D

  #3  
Old November 28th 06, 06:19 AM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
Bill Marcum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.hardware.]
On 27 Nov 2006 10:59:04 -0800,
wrote:

The floppy drive is OK, because I was able using the "other" machine to
create two different bootable floppies (FreeDos and SmartBootManager)
which successfully boot on the Problem Machine.

Have you tried a memtest86 floppy?

I found an apparently similar case on the net where someone claimed
that the problem could be solved (and the setup utilities could be run)
by moving the floppy drive to "the other connector on the ribbon cable,
the one without the twist". On the Problem Machine, there is no such
other connector, and never has been, and if there were, it is not clear

how it would help, because it would presumably move the floppy drive
to the B: role (/dev/fd1), which is not supposed(?) to be bootable at
all,
whereas I can currently at least boot SmartBootManager or FreeDos
from A: (/dev/fd0).

On some machines it was possible to swap the A: and B: drives in the BIOS,
so you could boot from either 3.5 or 5.25 inch floppies. If your machine
never had a second floppy, it's unlikely that the drives would be swapped.



--
We seldom repent talking too little, but very often talking too much.
-- Jean de la Bruyere
  #4  
Old November 28th 06, 08:41 PM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
[email protected]
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Posts: 7
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm

Chris F Clark wrote:
Which boot loader are you using on the problem machine, LILO or GRUB?


On hda, Lilo; of course, when I boot a floppy or a cd, these use
whatever they have on them.

How do you have the partition(s) on the 1st hard drive laid out?


hda1: 20MB ext2 kernel images and boot maps; placed first in case the
BIOS has the
cylinder 1024 problem; ext2 so I can use kernels too small to
have ext3 builtin.
hda2: ~3GB ext3; active; Linux root
hda3: ~128 MB Linux swap
hda4: extended partition containing:
hda5: ~3GB Linux data
hda6: ~3.6GB Linux data

This is off the top of my head; I'm not at home right now.

What partitions do you have on the 2nd drive?


Pretty similar. I like this sort of layout because you can just move
it to the hda position in another machine and it's ready to go.

What happens if you have only 1 of the 2 drives connected to the
cables?

What happens if you replace the 1st drive with the old 2.1GB drive?


These are last-resort questions I'll investigate if I can't find a
software solution. The mechanical design of the machine is compact
(read as "awkward and cramped"), and it has to be dissassembled like a
sliding-block puzzle just to get at some of the disk connectors; to
actually replace the disks is no fun at all.

Is the 1790 error message from the BIOS?


It's from the resident stub of the boot firmware. There's no ROM BIOS
such as most pc clones have. That functionality lived on the
manufacturer-provided 2MB partition on the original hda, which I
overwrote :-). The Compaq utility I downloaded claimed to provide
equivalent functionality by either restoring the setup partition
(destroying the existing partitioning in the process) or creating setup
floppies.

Are there "drive parameters" set in your BIOS?


The "drive parameters" seem to be stored in NVRAM, but the user
interface to change them isn't resident; at one point I got a message
saying "drive 0 has changed - you must re-run setup". This is what I
am now attempting to do. I got the machine second-hand, without
manuals or software, and just used the configuration it came with.

  #6  
Old November 29th 06, 12:38 AM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
Earl F. Parrish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm


wrote in message
ups.com...

I found an apparently similar case on the net where someone claimed
that the problem could be solved (and the setup utilities could be run)
by moving the floppy drive to "the other connector on the ribbon cable,
the one without the twist". On the Problem Machine, there is no such
other connector, and never has been, and if there were, it is not clear

how it would help, because it would presumably move the floppy drive
to the B: role (/dev/fd1), which is not supposed(?) to be bootable at
all,
whereas I can currently at least boot SmartBootManager or FreeDos
from A: (/dev/fd0).


-D


Actually all floppy drives are jumpered as "B" or second drive by default.
The twist in the end connector converts that "B" drive back to an "A."
The middle jumper has no twist so the drive connected there already is
detected as a "B" drive. This was done so that OEMs or users would not have
to change jumpers. Some floppy drives have the jumper connections
permanently soldered together.


--
Earl F. Parrish


  #7  
Old November 29th 06, 11:47 PM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
Chris F Clark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm

writes (replying to me ):
....
How do you have the partition(s) on the 1st hard drive laid out?


hda1: 20MB ext2 kernel images and boot maps; placed first in case the
BIOS has the
cylinder 1024 problem; ext2 so I can use kernels too small to
have ext3 builtin.
hda2: ~3GB ext3; active; Linux root
hda3: ~128 MB Linux swap
hda4: extended partition containing:
hda5: ~3GB Linux data
hda6: ~3.6GB Linux data


The layout looks good. I do similar things myself (and also to the
2nd drive so that the drives are "portable") just like you have done.

What happens if you have only 1 of the 2 drives connected to the
cables?

What happens if you replace the 1st drive with the old 2.1GB drive?


These are last-resort questions I'll investigate if I can't find a
software solution. The mechanical design of the machine is compact
(read as "awkward and cramped"), and it has to be dissassembled like a
sliding-block puzzle just to get at some of the disk connectors; to
actually replace the disks is no fun at all.


I ask because of Trevor's reply. I've heard that was a common problem
with machines of that vintage. I have a DELL from that time, that
simply truncates the disk to 8GB if it is larger, but I never tried
booting from the larger disks, just used them for 2nd "data" drives.

Is the 1790 error message from the BIOS?


It's from the resident stub of the boot firmware. There's no ROM BIOS
such as most pc clones have. That functionality lived on the
manufacturer-provided 2MB partition on the original hda, which I
overwrote :-). The Compaq utility I downloaded claimed to provide
equivalent functionality by either restoring the setup partition
(destroying the existing partitioning in the process) or creating setup
floppies.


My guess is that this software has specific functionality to enable
"large" (e.g. 2 GB) disks. You may not be able to boot the machine
(from the hard disk) unless that software is loaded, and thus it needs
to be in the MBR of the hard disk. That is, of course, only a guess.

Are there "drive parameters" set in your BIOS?


The "drive parameters" seem to be stored in NVRAM, but the user
interface to change them isn't resident; at one point I got a message
saying "drive 0 has changed - you must re-run setup". This is what I
am now attempting to do. I got the machine second-hand, without
manuals or software, and just used the configuration it came with.


Well, that sounds like a good thing to try.

At this point, I think you know more about your problem and potential
solutions than I can offer, so I'll just wish you the best of luck.

Cheers,
-Chris
  #8  
Old November 30th 06, 12:43 AM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq,comp.os.linux.setup
Trevor Hemsley
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Posts: 9
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:59:04 UTC in comp.os.linux.hardware,
wrote:

The Problem Machine is one of the Compaqs from about 1997/8 without a
"real"
BIOS.


BTW, it *does* have a BIOS and it *is* flashable. The bit that resides on that
weird partition is the configuration utility for it, not the BIOS itself. From
your description of it as a P-II, 233MHz I would guess that it's one of these
models -
http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/fi...?lang=en&cc=us
and probably the 6233X or 6233MMX since a 5233MMX is a Pentium I not a II. If
you take the link from that page for the 6233X then you can choose MS-DOS as its
o/s on the next page and the first thing listed is a flash BIOS for it - you
want the 3rd link down which will create a boot diskette and flash your BIOS.
You might need to unplug your big hard disk first since one of the issues listed
as fixed is " Adds support for hard drives larger than 8 gigabytes.".

--
Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com
  #9  
Old November 30th 06, 07:41 PM posted to comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq,comp.os.linux.setup
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm


The Problem Machine is one of the Compaqs from about 1997/8 without a
"real"
BIOS.


BTW, it *does* have a BIOS


Well yes; I was trying to be brief, and "real" seemed better than "of
the kind we're familiar with from most other pc-clones".

and it *is* flashable. The bit that resides on that
weird partition is the configuration utility for it, not the BIOS itself. From
your description of it as a P-II, 233MHz I would guess that it's one of these
models -
http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/fi...?lang=en&cc=us
and probably the 6233X or 6233MMX since a 5233MMX is a Pentium I not a II.


Ah! Thank you; I didn't know that. Maybe I needed a different setup
utility, though sp8126.exe seemed to claim very general applicability.
I spent a while at the Compaq site searching without success for a list
of the attributes of the models so as to identify which one I had.
Does anyone know what distinguishes the X from the MMX?

If you take the link from that page for the 6233X then you can choose MS-DOS as its
o/s on the next page and the first thing listed is a flash BIOS for it - you
want the 3rd link down which will create a boot diskette and flash your BIOS.


Having lost some functionality by acting without all the necessary
information (gasp!), and having had one possible fix inexplicably fail,
I'm reluctant to do something irreversible which could destroy the
remaining functionality if done less than perfectly. Remember, I don't
have a real MSDOS (although I had one in 1997 that's probably still in
my junk^H^H^H^Harchives), so thus far I've done all the DOS stuff in
dosemu or FreeDos, which risks subtle incompatibilities. That said,
thanks again, and I'll look into what's at the location you cited.

(Does any one know if Compaq incorporate extensive sanity/applicability
checks into their BIOS upgrade software, thus reducing the likelihood
of User Error being catastrophic?)

(Does anyone know a way to recover from a BIOS upgrade later determined
to be bad, other than taking the PROM/NVRAM off the motherboard and
using a special device to reprogram it?)

  #10  
Old November 30th 06, 08:14 PM posted to comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.sys.pc-clone.compaq
[email protected]
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Posts: 7
Default Deskpro: can't boot from hd, or run setup from floppy; not newbie, have rtfm


Chris F Clark wrote:
What happens if you have only 1 of the 2 drives connected to the
cables?


The current hda is a Maxtor, jumpered as Master-with-slave-present; I
know this is how it is jumpered because it booted properly in that
configuration in its previous machine, but I don't know how to jumper
it as Single-drive (jumper configs not shown on faceplate, don't have
manual, though this info is probably _somewhere_ on the net, sigh).

I have a DELL from that time, that
simply truncates the disk to 8GB if it is larger, but I never tried
booting from the larger disks, just used them for 2nd "data" drives.


Various of my other reclaimed junk boxes have bioses which can't handle
the size of disk now installed, but I just tell the bios the disk is
smaller, and put my kernel image in the part the bios can see, and it
doesn't check, and boots anyway; once Linux is running, it doesn't care
what the bios thinks about the disk. With the Deskpro, the bios tries
to check the disk size, and won't boot it if it sees a discrepancy.

 




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