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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
Pc not booting up whilst 2nd HDD is connected
I've got 2 hard drives, one for operating system, the other one is for all my data/music/files. Its been running great for a few years, rock solid, never a problem... until I downloaded a crack/code for soundforge off a dodgy warez type site. Since then, I've not been able to reboot, not even in safe mode. I went into the PC and through trial and error, disconnected one of the hard drives (not the C windows one) and boots up fine with just the C drive on its own. I believe I've cleaned my C drive of all trojans and infections 100% clean, and double checked at trend micro and panda scans online, avg anti spyware, spybot and avast. So the C drive is probably not infected with anything. But what can i do about my other hard drive, when i connect it, (with the pc off obviously), then I cant get the pc to boot up at all, and thats the drive thats got all my data on, so I'll be needing it on and working by sunday evening so I can carry on with my work. p.s. in case this has any bearing on the matter...I tried doing a windows repair using my windows xp disc early on in the equation before i could find out what was wrong, and it wouldn't even let me go on to install the windows on C, as it 'did not contain a windows xp compatible partition on the disc above'. Prompting me to go back and create a windows partition, of which I know absolutely nothing about, but that seemed very odd, don't recall that problem installing xp ever before. Any suggestions? |
#2
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
On Fri, 9 May 2008 21:51:19 +0100, "Tony Tee"
wrote: Pc not booting up whilst 2nd HDD is connected I've got 2 hard drives, one for operating system, the other one is for all my data/music/files. Its been running great for a few years, rock solid, never a problem... until I downloaded a crack/code for soundforge off a dodgy warez type site. Were you able to identify what the malware was so that you have a better chance of finding information about it to check on whether any portion remains in the system? However, some malware will download more malware and sustain itself. Since then, I've not been able to reboot, not even in safe mode. I went into the PC and through trial and error, disconnected one of the hard drives (not the C windows one) and boots up fine with just the C drive on its own. At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? This would tend to mean that either some malware referenced from the C drive is loaded from the disconnected one, or you have an unfortunate coincidence that something else with windows or the 2nd drive happened to go wrong at about the same time as your presumed malware infection from the crack. Often a virus scanner will create a log of what it found, you might check this to identify it. I believe I've cleaned my C drive of all trojans and infections 100% clean, and double checked at trend micro and panda scans online, avg anti spyware, spybot and avast. So the C drive is probably not infected with anything. But what can i do about my other hard drive, when i connect it, (with the pc off obviously), then I cant get the pc to boot up at all, and thats the drive thats got all my data on, so I'll be needing it on and working by sunday evening so I can carry on with my work. Boot the system to the (2nd drive's) manufacturer's diagnostics program and scan it for errors. In case the drive is failing you might think about what/how you'd copy data off, if it is failing you may have limited to no time left and should try to back up the data (assuming you hadn't) before scanning with the diagnostics. One attempt would be to place this drive in another system, though first you might unplug and replug the power cable and try a different data cable, and inspect the electrical contacts on the board, PSU plug, and drive. You might also try booting to another OS like a Ubuntu LiveCD with both drives connected. p.s. in case this has any bearing on the matter...I tried doing a windows repair using my windows xp disc early on in the equation before i could find out what was wrong, and it wouldn't even let me go on to install the windows on C, as it 'did not contain a windows xp compatible partition on the disc above'. Prompting me to go back and create a windows partition, of which I know absolutely nothing about, but that seemed very odd, don't recall that problem installing xp ever before. Any suggestions? Was this with both drives connected? Was the new partition created in the space where the prior partition existed? If so it would seem you have a new clean windows installation without your applications or user settings preserved? It is very odd, that windows would boot from single drive but then the XP disc wouldn't see this as a valid partition, and yet would see the drive and allow making one. Is it possible you created this partition on the 2nd drive, that it now actually has a windows installation on it and the windows installer pointed the first drive which boots, to the second drive as the source of the XP installation? At this point I would pull both drives, connect them both in turn to a different system running a working installation of XP and scan the drives, check the contents of each, and back up data if it seems necessary. |
#3
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
Were you able to identify what the malware was
It was vundo.gen!D and virtumonde that got onto the PC. (God knows what made it onto the other hard drive as i can't access it anymore). Just pop up related, possibly keylogging, but think its all cleaned off C drive now. I think it was loaded into the memory anyways, which was why avast made me reboot before i could do the proper full scan, after it had detected it. Spybot seemed to get rid of remnants of it too Used a specialist Vundo removal tool which didnt find anything also. At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Boot the system to the (2nd drive's) manufacturer's diagnostics program and scan it for errors. I don't know how to do that, (or what that is exactly) but it wont even allow me to boot in safe mode when its connected. I have inspected the insides, unplugged and replugged the cables, everything seems fine and working in there. Haven't tried swopping the cables yet though, will do that on the next reboot. If I had a Ubuntu Live disc I'd certainly give it a whirl but not got one at the mo. The avast log file (first time 've been in there so dont know what i'm doing) only shows scanning errors, under the error tab, so many of them in the last day alone its gone all the way to the end of the page! Same thing on the warnings tab, scanning warnings all the way down to bottom of page for just the last few hours alone. Can't find any references to an actual virus found though. Was this with both drives connected? Was the new partition created in the space where the prior partition existed? If so it would seem you have a new clean windows installation without your applications or user settings preserved? Yeah it was whilst both drives were plugged in, that I noted this message about unable to install windows due to not finding a windows xp compatible partition. Think it said the same when only the C was left plugged in too. However even though it prompted me to create a partition, I didn't, as I didn't even know how to do it or what I was doing. So I just went back and exited without doign anything. p.s. still have lots of recent registry back ups from where I've been using ccleaner the last few days/weeks and its made back ups of the registry so wondering if I might be brave enough to swop the registry for one of the back ups. (If I knew how, lol). Cheers for the reply btw. Andy "kony" wrote in message ... On Fri, 9 May 2008 21:51:19 +0100, "Tony Tee" wrote: Pc not booting up whilst 2nd HDD is connected I've got 2 hard drives, one for operating system, the other one is for all my data/music/files. Its been running great for a few years, rock solid, never a problem... until I downloaded a crack/code for soundforge off a dodgy warez type site. Were you able to identify what the malware was so that you have a better chance of finding information about it to check on whether any portion remains in the system? However, some malware will download more malware and sustain itself. Since then, I've not been able to reboot, not even in safe mode. I went into the PC and through trial and error, disconnected one of the hard drives (not the C windows one) and boots up fine with just the C drive on its own. At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? This would tend to mean that either some malware referenced from the C drive is loaded from the disconnected one, or you have an unfortunate coincidence that something else with windows or the 2nd drive happened to go wrong at about the same time as your presumed malware infection from the crack. Often a virus scanner will create a log of what it found, you might check this to identify it. I believe I've cleaned my C drive of all trojans and infections 100% clean, and double checked at trend micro and panda scans online, avg anti spyware, spybot and avast. So the C drive is probably not infected with anything. But what can i do about my other hard drive, when i connect it, (with the pc off obviously), then I cant get the pc to boot up at all, and thats the drive thats got all my data on, so I'll be needing it on and working by sunday evening so I can carry on with my work. Boot the system to the (2nd drive's) manufacturer's diagnostics program and scan it for errors. In case the drive is failing you might think about what/how you'd copy data off, if it is failing you may have limited to no time left and should try to back up the data (assuming you hadn't) before scanning with the diagnostics. One attempt would be to place this drive in another system, though first you might unplug and replug the power cable and try a different data cable, and inspect the electrical contacts on the board, PSU plug, and drive. You might also try booting to another OS like a Ubuntu LiveCD with both drives connected. p.s. in case this has any bearing on the matter...I tried doing a windows repair using my windows xp disc early on in the equation before i could find out what was wrong, and it wouldn't even let me go on to install the windows on C, as it 'did not contain a windows xp compatible partition on the disc above'. Prompting me to go back and create a windows partition, of which I know absolutely nothing about, but that seemed very odd, don't recall that problem installing xp ever before. Any suggestions? Was this with both drives connected? Was the new partition created in the space where the prior partition existed? If so it would seem you have a new clean windows installation without your applications or user settings preserved? It is very odd, that windows would boot from single drive but then the XP disc wouldn't see this as a valid partition, and yet would see the drive and allow making one. Is it possible you created this partition on the 2nd drive, that it now actually has a windows installation on it and the windows installer pointed the first drive which boots, to the second drive as the source of the XP installation? At this point I would pull both drives, connect them both in turn to a different system running a working installation of XP and scan the drives, check the contents of each, and back up data if it seems necessary. |
#4
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:15:14 +0100, "Tony Tee"
wrote: Were you able to identify what the malware was It was vundo.gen!D and virtumonde that got onto the PC. (God knows what made it onto the other hard drive as i can't access it anymore). Just pop up related, possibly keylogging, but think its all cleaned off C drive now. I think it was loaded into the memory anyways, which was why avast made me reboot before i could do the proper full scan, after it had detected it. Spybot seemed to get rid of remnants of it too Used a specialist Vundo removal tool which didnt find anything also. At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Most often this is a sign it couldn't find a valid boot device. Boot the system to the (2nd drive's) manufacturer's diagnostics program and scan it for errors. I don't know how to do that, (or what that is exactly) but it wont even allow me to boot in safe mode when its connected. Go to drive manufacturer's website (or a floppy or CD might've been included if you bought a retail packaged drive), get the diagnostic utility and boot to it. Might be an ISO to make a CD, might require a floppy drive, and/or you might be able to take the files needed and put them on another bootable medium like a USB thumbdrive, depending on if your system can boot one, if the utility allows it, and of course that you have one. If all you have as options is to boot a CD now then you are pretty limited though some do run in windows, you'd have to get another windows installation working or pull the drive and put it in another system for that. I have inspected the insides, unplugged and replugged the cables, everything seems fine and working in there. Haven't tried swopping the cables yet though, will do that on the next reboot. If I had a Ubuntu Live disc I'd certainly give it a whirl but not got one at the mo. They are freely available, just a matter of the time to get, download one and some system to burn the CD from an ISO. The avast log file (first time 've been in there so dont know what i'm doing) only shows scanning errors, under the error tab, so many of them in the last day alone its gone all the way to the end of the page! Same thing on the warnings tab, scanning warnings all the way down to bottom of page for just the last few hours alone. Can't find any references to an actual virus found though. At this point, whether there are any viri or other malware remaining doesn't seem relevant (yet), you need to determine if the hard drive is viable, and then repair existing windows install or do a clean one. The only other thing that comes to mind is if your bios is set to try to boot the wrong drive and doesn't try the first one with the OS when it fails to boot from the right drive, or perhaps a bios bug but you did have these two working previously it seemed, so bios flaw(s) are unlikely. Was this with both drives connected? Was the new partition created in the space where the prior partition existed? If so it would seem you have a new clean windows installation without your applications or user settings preserved? Yeah it was whilst both drives were plugged in, that I noted this message about unable to install windows due to not finding a windows xp compatible partition. Think it said the same when only the C was left plugged in too. However even though it prompted me to create a partition, I didn't, as I didn't even know how to do it or what I was doing. So I just went back and exited without doign anything. p.s. still have lots of recent registry back ups from where I've been using ccleaner the last few days/weeks and its made back ups of the registry so wondering if I might be brave enough to swop the registry for one of the back ups. (If I knew how, lol). The best case would be if you have/had made a backup of the windows partition and could restore that. Once you get this all sorted out it might be worthwhile to make such a backup. A few different applications will do this like Driveimage, though Acronis Trueimage seems to be among the most popular today. Beyond this, if all else fails you will need to decide if any important data is on the primary drive you ran the OS from. If there is such data you will need the drive in a system that can mount it to attempt to copy off the data, assuming that windows still can't repair install the existing install (which should be tried first, though you already wrote that it couldn't see the partition to do that) and would need be a clean install after you newly create a partition. You wrote that you didn't know how but it is fairly straightforward, the installation routine just asked where to put it and you need to be sure not to pick any partition (or what it may now consider free space) that may still have important data on it... if it doesn't see the partition as already viable it would have to format it too which of course means no chance of data remaining except through some type of scanning recovery utility which has low odds of success since windows would be installing, overwriting to areas that potentially had the lost data. |
#5
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
Somewhere on teh intarweb "kony" typed:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:15:14 +0100, "Tony Tee" wrote: At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Most often this is a sign it couldn't find a valid boot device. It depends on the speed of the machine and the definition if "immediately". Is the graphics card BIOS showing? (Does it usually?) Is any of the POST sequence showing? (Doesn't sound like it to me.) If it can't find a valid boot device it will still go through the first part of POST, checking CPU, RAM, then detecting FDD/HDDs before it hangs. It sounds to me like there's something more fundamental wrong here (if in fact "immediately" *does* mean instantly). Wrong as in the second HDD dying was the cause of the original no-boot scenario. Most PCs will run fine (on a hardware level) for a long time with malware present If even the graphics BIOS isn't showing then perhaps the HDD in question is just causing such a catastrophic power or I/O conflict that it's stalling the whole POST sequence. Of course this presupposes that there was a hardware problem at roughly the same time as the malware problem. In fact a malware problem wouldn't have prevented the PC from booting at the POST stage. I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one and in this case the simplest explanation is that the second HDD is dodo-dead. Dead in a way that includes a short of some sort that prevents the PC from POSTing. The discovery and subsequent cleaning of the malware on drive C is a red herring. I would guess that the HDD died a gradual death, first causing errors of the sort the OP described (and attributed to malware previously) when trying to do a repair install of Windows. Errors that prevented the IDE controller from finding any drives. Now, if indeed "immediately" is being used correctly, it seems that the drive has gone from being in ill health to having shucked this mortal coil. If the data is important prehaps it's time for the freezer trick? However, if t'were me, firstly I'd try the drive in another PC, in an external enclosure or use a USB/IDE adapter. TTFN, -- Shaun. |
#6
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
~misfit~ wrote:
Somewhere on teh intarweb "kony" typed: On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:15:14 +0100, "Tony Tee" wrote: At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Most often this is a sign it couldn't find a valid boot device. It depends on the speed of the machine and the definition if "immediately". Is the graphics card BIOS showing? (Does it usually?) Is any of the POST sequence showing? (Doesn't sound like it to me.) If it can't find a valid boot device it will still go through the first part of POST, checking CPU, RAM, then detecting FDD/HDDs before it hangs. It sounds to me like there's something more fundamental wrong here (if in fact "immediately" *does* mean instantly). Wrong as in the second HDD dying was the cause of the original no-boot scenario. Most PCs will run fine (on a hardware level) for a long time with malware present If even the graphics BIOS isn't showing then perhaps the HDD in question is just causing such a catastrophic power or I/O conflict that it's stalling the whole POST sequence. Of course this presupposes that there was a hardware problem at roughly the same time as the malware problem. In fact a malware problem wouldn't have prevented the PC from booting at the POST stage. I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort and isnt relevant to fault finding anyway. and in this case the simplest explanation is that the second HDD is dodo-dead. Simplest is completely irrelevant to what is the actual fault causing the symptoms seen. Dead in a way that includes a short of some sort that prevents the PC from POSTing. The discovery and subsequent cleaning of the malware on drive C is a red herring. I would guess that the HDD died a gradual death, first causing errors of the sort the OP described (and attributed to malware previously) when trying to do a repair install of Windows. Errors that prevented the IDE controller from finding any drives. Now, if indeed "immediately" is being used correctly, it seems that the drive has gone from being in ill health to having shucked this mortal coil. That wont normally produce the symptoms seen. If the data is important prehaps it's time for the freezer trick? However, if t'were me, firstly I'd try the drive in another PC, in an external enclosure or use a USB/IDE adapter. |
#7
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
FIXED.
All I did was swop the sata HDD connections over on the motherboard, (nothing swopped at the actual hard drive side) so where the C drive was plugged into one thingy on the motherboard, and the 2nd drive plugged into the other, I just swopped them around on the board and it booted up fine also recognising my 2nd hard drive. (I had tried various swopping bits over til I got to that, but everything was pointing to the fact that it was trying to boot from the 2nd HDD first). So somehow, its managed to change the boot order/sequence over. I wonder how its managed to do that?!!!!!! I wonder if my work here is done,,, or there's anything else I should be doing now? cheers all for trying to help. "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... ~misfit~ wrote: Somewhere on teh intarweb "kony" typed: On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:15:14 +0100, "Tony Tee" wrote: At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Most often this is a sign it couldn't find a valid boot device. It depends on the speed of the machine and the definition if "immediately". Is the graphics card BIOS showing? (Does it usually?) Is any of the POST sequence showing? (Doesn't sound like it to me.) If it can't find a valid boot device it will still go through the first part of POST, checking CPU, RAM, then detecting FDD/HDDs before it hangs. It sounds to me like there's something more fundamental wrong here (if in fact "immediately" *does* mean instantly). Wrong as in the second HDD dying was the cause of the original no-boot scenario. Most PCs will run fine (on a hardware level) for a long time with malware present If even the graphics BIOS isn't showing then perhaps the HDD in question is just causing such a catastrophic power or I/O conflict that it's stalling the whole POST sequence. Of course this presupposes that there was a hardware problem at roughly the same time as the malware problem. In fact a malware problem wouldn't have prevented the PC from booting at the POST stage. I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort and isnt relevant to fault finding anyway. and in this case the simplest explanation is that the second HDD is dodo-dead. Simplest is completely irrelevant to what is the actual fault causing the symptoms seen. Dead in a way that includes a short of some sort that prevents the PC from POSTing. The discovery and subsequent cleaning of the malware on drive C is a red herring. I would guess that the HDD died a gradual death, first causing errors of the sort the OP described (and attributed to malware previously) when trying to do a repair install of Windows. Errors that prevented the IDE controller from finding any drives. Now, if indeed "immediately" is being used correctly, it seems that the drive has gone from being in ill health to having shucked this mortal coil. That wont normally produce the symptoms seen. If the data is important prehaps it's time for the freezer trick? However, if t'were me, firstly I'd try the drive in another PC, in an external enclosure or use a USB/IDE adapter. |
#8
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
Tony Tee wrote
FIXED. All I did was swop the sata HDD connections over on the motherboard, (nothing swopped at the actual hard drive side) so where the C drive was plugged into one thingy on the motherboard, and the 2nd drive plugged into the other, I just swopped them around on the board and it booted up fine also recognising my 2nd hard drive. (I had tried various swopping bits over til I got to that, but everything was pointing to the fact that it was trying to boot from the 2nd HDD first). So somehow, its managed to change the boot order/sequence over. I wonder how its managed to do that?!!!!!! Could be as basic as the cmos battery going flat or the connection to it being dirty. I wonder if my work here is done,,, or there's anything else I should be doing now? I'd replace the coin cell battery just because its cheap and easy to change. cheers all for trying to help. "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... ~misfit~ wrote: Somewhere on teh intarweb "kony" typed: On Sat, 10 May 2008 11:15:14 +0100, "Tony Tee" wrote: At what exact point during the reboot process does it stop? Immediately, doesnt do a single thing, just sits there with a black screen and a flashing cursor in top left of screen. Most often this is a sign it couldn't find a valid boot device. It depends on the speed of the machine and the definition if "immediately". Is the graphics card BIOS showing? (Does it usually?) Is any of the POST sequence showing? (Doesn't sound like it to me.) If it can't find a valid boot device it will still go through the first part of POST, checking CPU, RAM, then detecting FDD/HDDs before it hangs. It sounds to me like there's something more fundamental wrong here (if in fact "immediately" *does* mean instantly). Wrong as in the second HDD dying was the cause of the original no-boot scenario. Most PCs will run fine (on a hardware level) for a long time with malware present If even the graphics BIOS isn't showing then perhaps the HDD in question is just causing such a catastrophic power or I/O conflict that it's stalling the whole POST sequence. Of course this presupposes that there was a hardware problem at roughly the same time as the malware problem. In fact a malware problem wouldn't have prevented the PC from booting at the POST stage. I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort and isnt relevant to fault finding anyway. and in this case the simplest explanation is that the second HDD is dodo-dead. Simplest is completely irrelevant to what is the actual fault causing the symptoms seen. Dead in a way that includes a short of some sort that prevents the PC from POSTing. The discovery and subsequent cleaning of the malware on drive C is a red herring. I would guess that the HDD died a gradual death, first causing errors of the sort the OP described (and attributed to malware previously) when trying to do a repair install of Windows. Errors that prevented the IDE controller from finding any drives. Now, if indeed "immediately" is being used correctly, it seems that the drive has gone from being in ill health to having shucked this mortal coil. That wont normally produce the symptoms seen. If the data is important prehaps it's time for the freezer trick? However, if t'were me, firstly I'd try the drive in another PC, in an external enclosure or use a USB/IDE adapter. |
#9
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
(replying through Tony's post as I've had this clown killfiled for years)
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ... ~misfit~ wrote: I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort and isnt relevant to fault finding anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor -- Shaun. |
#10
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PC won't boot whilst 2nd HDD is connected anymore
~misfit~ wrote
(replying through Tony's post as I've had this clown killfiled for years) Because it hates having its nose rubbed in its terminal stupiditys. "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... ~misfit~ wrote: I know that it's unlikely that two things happened at once or close together but Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort and isnt relevant to fault finding anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor I know what it is, and that link doesnt say a damned thing about it being useful for fault finding. |
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