Wind tunnel effect through house to cool electronics.

z wrote:
On Jul 7, 4:26 pm, Martin Griffith wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 14:59:25 -0500, in sci.electronics.design "Charlie"





wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:10:25 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
wrote:
This is what I do to cool down and vent my appertment:
Step 1. I open the front door.
Step 2. I open the back window.
Result: Wind tunnel effect.
Air is a rather lousy thermal conductor:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
You could do better to cool your house with water, which has 20 times
the thermal conductivity. The procedure is similar to using air
cooling.
1. Close all the doors and windows.
2. Seal all the outlets, drains, and cracks.
3. Turn on all the faucets and allow the house to fill with water.
I believe this will be counter-productive. Instead of turning on all the
faucets, turn on only the cold water ones.
4. When full and adequately cooled, drain the water outside.
5. Repeat as necessary to cool the house and electronics.
Liquid whole-house immersion cooling may be a bit excessive for your
application. Therefore, a hybrid approach, such as spraying your
electronics with a water hose, where the mechanism is evaporative
cooling, might be more appropriate. It also uses less water.
Another hybrid approach would be plumbing. The liquid would be
transported through various size pipes and hoses, accumulate the heat,
and empty it outside via a suitable radiator. Such water cooling is
commonly used in high end over-clocked PC game machines.
It is also possible to operate some electronics under water. This
requires low impedance design, which is not particularly efficient,
but useful for such applications like marine radios. You could
analyze the schematic to see if immersion cooling is possible, or you
could simply run a test by dumping your electronics in a water bucket.
If successful, simply emptying the bucket outside is equivalent to
dumping the heat.
Why not use distilled water. It does not conduct electricity and your
computer should work just fine while submerged. Just ask your local water
company to switch to distilled water :-)
Charlie
Not quite, as soon as the ever so pure water hits the PCB, it will
start absorbing stuff, like metals, not much, but enough and will soon
become somewhat conductive.

Water is a really good solvent, why do you think we need skin?

martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

fill your house with freon. very well behaved stuff. except in the
atmosphere.

There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...er/output_html

Paul

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:31:42 -0400, Paul rearranged some electrons to say:

z wrote:
On Jul 7, 4:26 pm, Martin Griffith wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 14:59:25 -0500, in sci.electronics.design "Charlie"





wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:10:25 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"
wrote:
This is what I do to cool down and vent my appertment: Step 1. I
open the front door.
Step 2. I open the back window.
Result: Wind tunnel effect.
Air is a rather lousy thermal conductor:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
You could do better to cool your house with water, which has 20
times the thermal conductivity. The procedure is similar to using
air cooling.
1. Close all the doors and windows.
2. Seal all the outlets, drains, and cracks. 3. Turn on all the
faucets and allow the house to fill with water.
I believe this will be counter-productive. Instead of turning on all
the faucets, turn on only the cold water ones.
4. When full and adequately cooled, drain the water outside. 5.
Repeat as necessary to cool the house and electronics. Liquid
whole-house immersion cooling may be a bit excessive for your
application. Therefore, a hybrid approach, such as spraying your
electronics with a water hose, where the mechanism is evaporative
cooling, might be more appropriate. It also uses less water.
Another hybrid approach would be plumbing. The liquid would be
transported through various size pipes and hoses, accumulate the
heat, and empty it outside via a suitable radiator. Such water
cooling is commonly used in high end over-clocked PC game machines.
It is also possible to operate some electronics under water. This
requires low impedance design, which is not particularly efficient,
but useful for such applications like marine radios. You could
analyze the schematic to see if immersion cooling is possible, or
you could simply run a test by dumping your electronics in a water
bucket. If successful, simply emptying the bucket outside is
equivalent to dumping the heat.
Why not use distilled water. It does not conduct electricity and
your computer should work just fine while submerged. Just ask your
local water company to switch to distilled water :-) Charlie
Not quite, as soon as the ever so pure water hits the PCB, it will
start absorbing stuff, like metals, not much, but enough and will soon
become somewhat conductive.

Water is a really good solvent, why do you think we need skin?

martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

fill your house with freon. very well behaved stuff. except in the
atmosphere.

There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw a
demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed, is half
immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be fully
immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not high
enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves the water
problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the PC, you cannot
use it with (the hard drive).


Yes, we use it regularly in the items that we manufacture.

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:31:10 +0100, "housetrained"
wrote:

The ones we have emit an annoying intermittent beep before the battery runs
flat - great as you are warned.

Due to a regulatory chance over a decade ago. Must be a very distinct
sound.

On Jul 9, 3:31*pm, Paul wrote:


There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...

* * Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting. back when we were so carefree, we used to use freon in
the lab as a terrific nonpolar solvent. what i didn't know previously
was that there were different versions of freon as well, with
different boiling points; what we used had a lower boiling point
specifically so it could be used as a solvent at room temperature and
pressure, not pitched as a refrigerant. and yet, easily evaporated
off. it was a sad day when we had to give it up. maybe fluorinert
would do the job. anyway, i'm out of the biz now.

In article , z wrote:
On Jul 9, 3:31=A0pm, Paul wrote:


There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...

=A0 =A0 Paul- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting. back when we were so carefree, we used to use freon in
the lab as a terrific nonpolar solvent. what i didn't know previously
was that there were different versions of freon as well, with
different boiling points; what we used had a lower boiling point
specifically so it could be used as a solvent at room temperature and
pressure, not pitched as a refrigerant. and yet, easily evaporated
off. it was a sad day when we had to give it up. maybe fluorinert
would do the job. anyway, i'm out of the biz now.
The old cans of Freon TF were the best thing for cleaning video and tape deck
heads!!!!! I hate the goddamn EU and their regulations and any US goverment
who follows the demands of them!!!!

On Jul 9, 3:31 pm, Paul wrote:
There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...

Has anyone suggested transformer oil? It is designed to be an electrically
insulating coolant... and its clear! Best of all it costs less than beer...
£1/litre!

Rarius


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In article ,
Rarius wrote:
On Jul 9, 3:31 pm, Paul wrote:
There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...

Has anyone suggested transformer oil? It is designed to be an electrically
insulating coolant... and its clear! Best of all it costs less than beer...
£1/litre!

I was in a pinch in a repair for some underwater gear the other day,
and lost the transformer oil it was embedded in. (don't ask).

I tested household oils, and the plain, non-olive cooking oil
has conductivity in the transformer oil range. It was sufficiently
low that I was unable to measure it. I poured it in, and the device
works like a charm. We'll see in a year. (I tested soy and olive oil
too. Measurable conductivity).

Max voltage 3.6V, but lots of sensitive sensors. They are all
measuring within their toleranses. I wouldn't do this with higher
voltages though.

-- mrr

Morten Reistad wrote:
In article ,
Rarius wrote:
On Jul 9, 3:31 pm, Paul wrote:
There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...
Has anyone suggested transformer oil? It is designed to be an electrically
insulating coolant... and its clear! Best of all it costs less than beer...
£1/litre!

I was in a pinch in a repair for some underwater gear the other day,
and lost the transformer oil it was embedded in. (don't ask).

I tested household oils, and the plain, non-olive cooking oil
has conductivity in the transformer oil range. It was sufficiently
low that I was unable to measure it. I poured it in, and the device
works like a charm. We'll see in a year. (I tested soy and olive oil
too. Measurable conductivity).

Max voltage 3.6V, but lots of sensitive sensors. They are all
measuring within their toleranses. I wouldn't do this with higher
voltages though.

-- mrr
Only thing is it gets really foul after a while...

Eric

In article , Eric wrote:
Morten Reistad wrote:
In article ,
Rarius wrote:
On Jul 9, 3:31 pm, Paul wrote:
There is a liquid suitable for electronics, called Fluorinert. I saw
a demo at an electronics show, where a TV set, with cover removed,
is half immersed in the stuff, and the TV still works. (It cannot be
fully immersed, because the dielectric strength of the liquid, is not
high enough to take the HV on the red insulated wire.) This solves
the water problem, but as a liquid, there are still things in the
PC, you cannot use it with (the hard drive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

The stuff is pretty expensive, like $250.00 a gallon or so.

And I didn't know there were different versions. I see one of
them, freezes at -110C.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...lty_materials/...
Has anyone suggested transformer oil? It is designed to be an electrically
insulating coolant... and its clear! Best of all it costs less than beer...

£1/litre!

I was in a pinch in a repair for some underwater gear the other day,
and lost the transformer oil it was embedded in. (don't ask).

I tested household oils, and the plain, non-olive cooking oil
has conductivity in the transformer oil range. It was sufficiently
low that I was unable to measure it. I poured it in, and the device
works like a charm. We'll see in a year. (I tested soy and olive oil
too. Measurable conductivity).

Max voltage 3.6V, but lots of sensitive sensors. They are all
measuring within their toleranses. I wouldn't do this with higher
voltages though.

-- mrr
Only thing is it gets really foul after a while...

Eric

That is because cooking oil becomes rancid after a short while.