I still want to build a new system

And I figure I ought to go with a socket 2011 board, the Asus P9X79,
probably. But I just can't bring myself to go forward. The problem
isn't cost -- it's where to put the cooling fan for an i7 processor.
Those i7 cooling fans look like NASA wind tunnels, and they stand so
high off the processor they'd never fit in my very nice Lian Li
horizontal case. And yes, I want a horizontal case. I'd buy a new one
if I could find one tall enough to accommodate one of the cooling fans,
but the only cases I've found like that are intended for multimedia
applications and will accommodate only mini ATX boards.

My current Lian Li case can't accommodate 120mm (actually larger, all
considered) liquid cool fans around its sides. The best it can do is
80mm fans. Still, it has a 140mm panel in the lid that I could remove
and replace with a fan cover and then *hang* a liquid cooling apparatus
directly over the processor on the motherboard, but I just can't see
myself carefully dealing with wires and tubes and fan and radiator and
whatnot every time I want to pop the lid.

I'm currently running an Asus P5Q Pro Turbo with a 2400 MHz Core 2 Quad
Intel processor and 4 gigs of DDR2 memory. With my new SSD, it actually
does everything I want very nicely except for video processing.
Premiere CS6 works OK until I try to edit large (one hour or so) High
Def video clips, at which point it will hang and I wait and wait and
wait while the hard drives run, trying to catch up. Maybe all I need is
more memory, as 4 gigs seem to be the minimum for Premiere CS6. But I
also want to render video faster, and I have read that what I really
need is to ditch my ATI video card and get a new nVidia with CUDA
capability -- a card that Premiere can use to offload some of the
processing requirements for rendering. Well, that's what I think I
understand, anyway.

So what's the deal with cooling an i7 quad core? Is there no compact
solution? Or might my current LGA 775 system be beefed up to make my
Premiere problems go away?


--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

Bill Anderson wrote:
And I figure I ought to go with a socket 2011 board, the Asus P9X79,
probably. But I just can't bring myself to go forward. The problem
isn't cost -- it's where to put the cooling fan for an i7 processor.
Those i7 cooling fans look like NASA wind tunnels, and they stand so
high off the processor they'd never fit in my very nice Lian Li
horizontal case. And yes, I want a horizontal case. I'd buy a new one
if I could find one tall enough to accommodate one of the cooling fans,
but the only cases I've found like that are intended for multimedia
applications and will accommodate only mini ATX boards.

My current Lian Li case can't accommodate 120mm (actually larger, all
considered) liquid cool fans around its sides. The best it can do is
80mm fans. Still, it has a 140mm panel in the lid that I could remove
and replace with a fan cover and then *hang* a liquid cooling apparatus
directly over the processor on the motherboard, but I just can't see
myself carefully dealing with wires and tubes and fan and radiator and
whatnot every time I want to pop the lid.

I'm currently running an Asus P5Q Pro Turbo with a 2400 MHz Core 2 Quad
Intel processor and 4 gigs of DDR2 memory. With my new SSD, it actually
does everything I want very nicely except for video processing. Premiere
CS6 works OK until I try to edit large (one hour or so) High Def video
clips, at which point it will hang and I wait and wait and wait while
the hard drives run, trying to catch up. Maybe all I need is more
memory, as 4 gigs seem to be the minimum for Premiere CS6. But I also
want to render video faster, and I have read that what I really need is
to ditch my ATI video card and get a new nVidia with CUDA capability --
a card that Premiere can use to offload some of the processing
requirements for rendering. Well, that's what I think I understand,
anyway.

So what's the deal with cooling an i7 quad core? Is there no compact
solution? Or might my current LGA 775 system be beefed up to make my
Premiere problems go away?



They make a slightly lower profile cooler. The first thing I'd
do with this, is replace the fan with a thicker one, for better
air movement (at the risk of making the overall height, taller).

"Scythe SCBSK-2100 120mm Sleeve BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B CPU Cooler"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185174

Danger with the low profile cooler, is bumping into the RAM slots
and being unable to move RAM around after the cooler is in place.
One person, managed to damage a fastener on that product - there's
a lot of variation in the quality of screws and fasteners on coolers.
Some brands are excellent on screws, others, not so much.

Personally, I'd let the project, dictate the computer case used.
If I was going to spend that kind of money on the project, I'd
shop for a different (wider) case, so I could get inside the case
easier at a later date. For example, on my current box, I can
reach all the RAM sockets with ease, in case some reconfiguration
is needed while testing.

If you wanted really low profile coolers, then I'd go to a vendor
selling parts for a server version of LGA2011 socket. There would
likely be coolers designed for rack mounted server stuff, that
would be lower than that one. But, at the price of extreme noise
(as the fan is probably cranked to the max). They don't care about
the noise level, in a server room.

Paul

Paul wrote:


If you wanted really low profile coolers, then I'd go to a vendor
selling parts for a server version of LGA2011 socket. There would
likely be coolers designed for rack mounted server stuff, that
would be lower than that one. But, at the price of extreme noise
(as the fan is probably cranked to the max). They don't care about
the noise level, in a server room.

Paul

At the time I wrote that, I couldn't remember the name of the company
making the server coolers. And I just noticed in this article,
they're using a "Dynatron R17". Dynatron is a company that makes
server coolers.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6241/b...-nas-testbed/2

It's relatively cheap, and 32 dBa at 100% CPU. Fan is 92mm and
side mounted. (Side mounted, means you don't get any downward cooling
air for the motherboard surface.)

http://www.amazon.com/Dynatron-R17-C...142996-5482769

It's described as "110mm" in height.

http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/prod...v=&id=239&in=0

A user here described it as "It cooled the processor just enough to
be able to run at stock settings (I7 3930k)". Considering the price
is $33, that's not bad. Just a question of whether 110mm is an
issue or not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835114120

Paul

You might check Corsair for a case, they have some nice ones but a bit
expensive, I using one now with their Liquid Cooler and running an 8
core AMD processor and a ASUS Motherboard, after 8 months now no
problems and runs cool.
Bill


Bill Anderson wrote:
And I figure I ought to go with a socket 2011 board, the Asus P9X79,
probably. But I just can't bring myself to go forward. The problem
isn't cost -- it's where to put the cooling fan for an i7 processor.
Those i7 cooling fans look like NASA wind tunnels, and they stand so
high off the processor they'd never fit in my very nice Lian Li
horizontal case. And yes, I want a horizontal case. I'd buy a new one
if I could find one tall enough to accommodate one of the cooling fans,
but the only cases I've found like that are intended for multimedia
applications and will accommodate only mini ATX boards.

My current Lian Li case can't accommodate 120mm (actually larger, all
considered) liquid cool fans around its sides. The best it can do is
80mm fans. Still, it has a 140mm panel in the lid that I could remove
and replace with a fan cover and then *hang* a liquid cooling apparatus
directly over the processor on the motherboard, but I just can't see
myself carefully dealing with wires and tubes and fan and radiator and
whatnot every time I want to pop the lid.

I'm currently running an Asus P5Q Pro Turbo with a 2400 MHz Core 2 Quad
Intel processor and 4 gigs of DDR2 memory. With my new SSD, it actually
does everything I want very nicely except for video processing. Premiere
CS6 works OK until I try to edit large (one hour or so) High Def video
clips, at which point it will hang and I wait and wait and wait while
the hard drives run, trying to catch up. Maybe all I need is more
memory, as 4 gigs seem to be the minimum for Premiere CS6. But I also
want to render video faster, and I have read that what I really need is
to ditch my ATI video card and get a new nVidia with CUDA capability --
a card that Premiere can use to offload some of the processing
requirements for rendering. Well, that's what I think I understand,
anyway.

So what's the deal with cooling an i7 quad core? Is there no compact
solution? Or might my current LGA 775 system be beefed up to make my
Premiere problems go away?

On 9/6/2012 9:30 PM, Paul wrote:
Paul wrote:


If you wanted really low profile coolers, then I'd go to a vendor
selling parts for a server version of LGA2011 socket. There would
likely be coolers designed for rack mounted server stuff, that
would be lower than that one. But, at the price of extreme noise
(as the fan is probably cranked to the max). They don't care about
the noise level, in a server room.

Paul

At the time I wrote that, I couldn't remember the name of the company
making the server coolers. And I just noticed in this article,
they're using a "Dynatron R17". Dynatron is a company that makes
server coolers.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6241/b...-nas-testbed/2


It's relatively cheap, and 32 dBa at 100% CPU. Fan is 92mm and
side mounted. (Side mounted, means you don't get any downward cooling
air for the motherboard surface.)

http://www.amazon.com/Dynatron-R17-C...142996-5482769


It's described as "110mm" in height.

http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/prod...v=&id=239&in=0

A user here described it as "It cooled the processor just enough to
be able to run at stock settings (I7 3930k)". Considering the price
is $33, that's not bad. Just a question of whether 110mm is an
issue or not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835114120

Paul

Sorry I've taken a few days to respond, Paul, but I've been out of town.

Hooray! I do believe you've found the fan I'm looking for. Some
comments say it's a bit loud, but that's the only concern I have. The
fan and heat sink certainly would certainly appear to be the size I'm
looking for. I have, conservatively, about 120mm of clearance from
processor to the top of my case, and this thing appears to be only 92mm
tall -- plus, the pictures seem to show the footprint doesn't extend
beyond the four lockdown screws, so it shouldn't interfere with sticks
of memory. I even found a video from Asus showing how it works with the
MBo I'm planning to buy. Finally, a fan that looks perfect. No need to
do carpentry work on my computer cabinet to make a tower case fit.
Looks like I can stick with my horizontal Lian Li case. Thanks!

Just for the record, here's what I'm planning to buy. See any problems?
Any advice regarding the memory question?

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E $299.99 ($20 off if I buy
today)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115229

Memory: Crucial 32GB kit (8GBx4) $383.99
http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...=P9X79&Cat=RAM
Possible Memory Alternative:
CORSAIR XMS 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM $167.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233279
(Corsair is less than half the price of the Crucial, but I’ve always
used Crucial and I do like their customer service. And, the timings for
Corsair are 11-11-11-30, where for Crucial they’re 9-9-9-24, which
apparently makes for faster memory performance from Crucial. Still,
we’re talking a difference of over $200. Are the Crucial sticks I’ve
chosen really worth the higher price tag?)

Video Card: PNY VCQ2000-PB Quadro 2000 $399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133353
Both nVidia and Adobe say this works well with Premiere Pro CS6.

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17
Here’s a video from Asus showing how it’s installed in the P9X79 mbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7UjgcU60Yw

Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express
$26.99 (Wanted to use old PCI faxmodem but looks like the P9X79 has only
PCIe slots.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,464 plus shipping, or with Corsair memory, $1,248 plus shipping.

Current components I’ll re-use:

Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling Silencer 610
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...10-eps12v.html
Boot HD: Samsung 256 Gb SSD
Four large-capacity SATA HDDs
Hauppauge Colossus HD video capture card
Panasonic Blu-Ray/DVD/CD optical drive/burner

Thanks as always for your help!

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

On 9/8/2012 5:59 PM, Bill wrote:
You might check Corsair for a case, they have some nice ones but a bit
expensive, I using one now with their Liquid Cooler and running an 8
core AMD processor and a ASUS Motherboard, after 8 months now no
problems and runs cool.
Bill


Thanks, Bill. Sorry to take so long getting back. Looks like Paul has
found me a cooling fan that'll fit in the case I'm using now! The guy
is a genius. I've been looking for months. I'm almost ready now to
give Newegg all my money.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

Bill Anderson wrote:
On 9/6/2012 9:30 PM, Paul wrote:
Paul wrote:


If you wanted really low profile coolers, then I'd go to a vendor
selling parts for a server version of LGA2011 socket. There would
likely be coolers designed for rack mounted server stuff, that
would be lower than that one. But, at the price of extreme noise
(as the fan is probably cranked to the max). They don't care about
the noise level, in a server room.

Paul

At the time I wrote that, I couldn't remember the name of the company
making the server coolers. And I just noticed in this article,
they're using a "Dynatron R17". Dynatron is a company that makes
server coolers.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6241/b...-nas-testbed/2



It's relatively cheap, and 32 dBa at 100% CPU. Fan is 92mm and
side mounted. (Side mounted, means you don't get any downward cooling
air for the motherboard surface.)

http://www.amazon.com/Dynatron-R17-C...142996-5482769



It's described as "110mm" in height.

http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/prod...v=&id=239&in=0

A user here described it as "It cooled the processor just enough to
be able to run at stock settings (I7 3930k)". Considering the price
is $33, that's not bad. Just a question of whether 110mm is an
issue or not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835114120

Paul

Sorry I've taken a few days to respond, Paul, but I've been out of town.

Hooray! I do believe you've found the fan I'm looking for. Some
comments say it's a bit loud, but that's the only concern I have. The
fan and heat sink certainly would certainly appear to be the size I'm
looking for. I have, conservatively, about 120mm of clearance from
processor to the top of my case, and this thing appears to be only 92mm
tall -- plus, the pictures seem to show the footprint doesn't extend
beyond the four lockdown screws, so it shouldn't interfere with sticks
of memory. I even found a video from Asus showing how it works with the
MBo I'm planning to buy. Finally, a fan that looks perfect. No need to
do carpentry work on my computer cabinet to make a tower case fit. Looks
like I can stick with my horizontal Lian Li case. Thanks!

Just for the record, here's what I'm planning to buy. See any problems?
Any advice regarding the memory question?

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E $299.99 ($20 off if I buy
today)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115229

Memory: Crucial 32GB kit (8GBx4) $383.99
http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...=P9X79&Cat=RAM
Possible Memory Alternative:
CORSAIR XMS 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM $167.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233279
(Corsair is less than half the price of the Crucial, but I’ve always
used Crucial and I do like their customer service. And, the timings for
Corsair are 11-11-11-30, where for Crucial they’re 9-9-9-24, which
apparently makes for faster memory performance from Crucial. Still,
we’re talking a difference of over $200. Are the Crucial sticks I’ve
chosen really worth the higher price tag?)

Video Card: PNY VCQ2000-PB Quadro 2000 $399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133353
Both nVidia and Adobe say this works well with Premiere Pro CS6.

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17

Here’s a video from Asus showing how it’s installed in the P9X79 mbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7UjgcU60Yw

Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express $26.99
(Wanted to use old PCI faxmodem but looks like the P9X79 has only PCIe
slots.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,464 plus shipping, or with Corsair memory, $1,248 plus shipping.

Current components I’ll re-use:

Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling Silencer 610
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...10-eps12v.html
Boot HD: Samsung 256 Gb SSD
Four large-capacity SATA HDDs
Hauppauge Colossus HD video capture card
Panasonic Blu-Ray/DVD/CD optical drive/burner

Thanks as always for your help!


Your build is a bit of a mixed bag.

The motherboard has a few issues, based on the Newegg reviews.
As long as I thought there'd be no problem returning it,
I wouldn't be too worried.

You're putting a quad core processor in the board. You can get
a quad core in other platforms besides LGA2011. (I.e. Save
money on motherboard, pay ballpark the same for CPU, get
less L3 on the processor perhaps.)

It's possible your 4x8GB memory kit, would work in that other
motherboard as well. You have to be careful, when shopping, to
see whether the processor is rated for 8GB modules or not. For
example, older LGA1366 documentation, might not mention 8GB
modules specifically.

So I'd need to understand what you find attractive about LGA2011.
Maybe it's the ability to double the memory later ? If I was
building up an LGA2011, I'd try to stick a hex core in it, as
that makes the platform more attractive. More expensive as well
though. This is just my personal opinion. I see no point in
pretending you'd upgrade later to a hex core, because that's
not going to happen (after paying for the quad, you're unlikely
to fork out $600 for another one). Some other platform would
come along by then perhaps.

Your system has no ECC on the memory. We have 32GB, but we can't
detect an error in that memory. That always makes me nervous about
large memory kits, is whether there would be an ability to detect
when there's a problem.

The memory subsystem has a higher theoretical bandwidth, but
it's not clear with these systems, how much overall benefit
you get over a system with dual channel memory. Back when
LGA1366 came out (triple channel), the thing still did pretty
well even when run in dual channel mode.

The block diagram for LGA2011 and X79 is here.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...9-Chipset1.png

The PCI Express ports (for video cards) are on the CPU. Which means
there's the potential for relatively high bandwidth between memory and
PCI Express. The Northbridge is inside the CPU, while the Southbridge
is the PCH thing. The characteristics of the PCI Express ports, are
determined by the CPU, which is why you can get PCI Express 3.0 out
of the thing, after the fact. As long as the routing on the board is
ready for 3.0, the clock distribution isn't buggered, all it might take
is a BIOS update (if the feature was initially missing).

It's not clear to me, whether any LGA2011 processors (yet) are PCI
Express 3.0 ? I would have expected to see that in the ark.intel.com
table, if it was an available feature. In any case, PCI Express 3.0
might not be all that necessary. It would take a $500 gamer card,
before you could even measure the difference.

The PCH has USB2 native, no USB3. External chips are used to add USB3.
Intel also makes newer chipsets, with USB3 on the chipset. The "DMI"
interface, while listed as "20Gb/sec", I think that includes both
directions, so it's 10Gb/sec in one direction. 8Gb/sec or 1GB/sec
in one direction after decoding (8B10B code). It means any stuff hosted
off X79, has an aggregate 1GB/sec limit on transfer rate. You have to
watch Intel like a hawk, when checking these diagrams, to figure
out what you're actually getting. For example, I'd have to
download the X79 datasheet and skim read the damn thing, to verify the
"20Gb/sec" and how to interpret it.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...9-Chipset1.png

The capabilities of the Quadro 2000 are shown here. Not an FP64
monster. And based on listed power consumption, it's a lower end
card. So basically you're paying for a name and the software
certification. If the card is only for video editing, personally,
I'd do more research to determine what other cost effective
options are available.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3961/n...uadro-2000-600

It would not be exactly like this desktop video card, as I can't
match the "GF106" GPU number to anything else. But this card is
192/16 (shader/rop) on functional blocks. And the FP64 ratio may
not be far off what is available on a card like this either.
A GTS 450 is in the $100 range. So in rough round numbers, you're
paying $300 for software certification. If you were doing CAD
with the card, it might be worth it. If attempting to speed up
movie editing, I'd do the extra research to find other cards
that could do the job.

http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GTS-450-card-634.html

So at the moment, it looks like you're buying the platform,
for the ability to insert 64GB of memory at some point.
You're getting quad channel. And to see if that's all that
it's cracked up to be, I'd need to track down some benchmarks
for LGA2011, where they try various memory configurations.
(Compare dual channel to quad channel operation.)

*******

On the memory, look through the Newegg listing again. For
a price between the two extremes you noted, you can get
DDR3-1600 CAS9. So you can get decent performance, at a
decent price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...vancedSearch=1

*******

This is a strawman proposal. Just to see how close I could
come with an alternate solution.

I can get almost as much performance (100MHz less) while
saving about $200 on the motherboard.

Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core
Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K $330

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116501

The platform supports QuickSync, as long as the motherboard has
graphics connectors. (QuickSync is for transcoding. May not help
if just doing output render in Premiere.)

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/...up-to-3_90-GHz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video

You can pair that with a Z75 or Z77 motherboard. USB3 is integrated
in the PCH Southbridge (4 ports).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155

The motherboards are a bit lower in price. This one is $134,
but others are as low as $99. The graphics connectors on
the back, are for when you want to play with QuickSync while
transcoding. This is compared to the $320 for the LGA2011 motherboard.

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157293

That gives you almost as much performance, and the ability to use
32GB max of RAM.

I don't want to spoil your fun. It wouldn't save that much
money to go that way.

The thing about "buying more CPU", is it's always there as
your base performance level. All this "GPU crap", only works
in particular cases. Whereas, when you buy a CPU, it's always
there for you. Even when you're writing an email, all those
cores are ready to go :-)

There's a list of supported GPUs for Mercury playback engine, here.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

http://www.adobe.com/products/premie...ck-engine.html

"Real-time effects with GPU acceleration

Take advantage of the ability of Adobe Premiere Pro CS6, which
requires a 64-bit operating system, to work hand in hand with
NVIDIA CUDA technology... The Mercury Playback Engine uses
NVIDIA GPU cards to provide a GPU-accelerated 32-bit color pipeline,
and most popular effects have been rewritten to run on it — for
example, effects like color correction, the Ultra keyer, and
motion control all run in real time.

...

Compared with CPU-only rendering using a quad-core Intel i7 930
processor running at 2.8GHz, installing an entry-level NVIDIA Quadro 2000
improves performance by more than six times. A Quadro 5000 yields a
better than eight times performance boost
"

Pretty weird. You'd think with the "extra iron", there'd be more of
a boost. Almost seems like a pretty weak video card, gives you
pretty good boost (for whatever artificial benchmark scenario
they concocted). (I've seen mention of perhaps an artificial
limit on layers the cards can accelerate ? Like Adobe doing it
for Nvidia's benefit. Should be fun tracking down the truth.)

You could try datamining here. Even what seem like relatively
weak cards, seem to see a gain with "MPE on". So it's not clear
how higher end cards help. It's almost like not all the cores
are getting used. It's also possible these benchmarks aren't
"demanding" enough, to show the hardware in a good light.

http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

Paul

On 9/12/2012 9:33 PM, Paul wrote:
Bill Anderson wrote:
On 9/6/2012 9:30 PM, Paul wrote:
Paul wrote:


If you wanted really low profile coolers, then I'd go to a vendor
selling parts for a server version of LGA2011 socket. There would
likely be coolers designed for rack mounted server stuff, that
would be lower than that one. But, at the price of extreme noise
(as the fan is probably cranked to the max). They don't care about
the noise level, in a server room.

Paul

At the time I wrote that, I couldn't remember the name of the company
making the server coolers. And I just noticed in this article,
they're using a "Dynatron R17". Dynatron is a company that makes
server coolers.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6241/b...-nas-testbed/2



It's relatively cheap, and 32 dBa at 100% CPU. Fan is 92mm and
side mounted. (Side mounted, means you don't get any downward cooling
air for the motherboard surface.)

http://www.amazon.com/Dynatron-R17-C...142996-5482769



It's described as "110mm" in height.

http://www.dynatron-corp.com/en/prod...v=&id=239&in=0

A user here described it as "It cooled the processor just enough to
be able to run at stock settings (I7 3930k)". Considering the price
is $33, that's not bad. Just a question of whether 110mm is an
issue or not.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835114120

Paul

Sorry I've taken a few days to respond, Paul, but I've been out of town.

Hooray! I do believe you've found the fan I'm looking for. Some
comments say it's a bit loud, but that's the only concern I have. The
fan and heat sink certainly would certainly appear to be the size I'm
looking for. I have, conservatively, about 120mm of clearance from
processor to the top of my case, and this thing appears to be only
92mm tall -- plus, the pictures seem to show the footprint doesn't
extend beyond the four lockdown screws, so it shouldn't interfere with
sticks of memory. I even found a video from Asus showing how it works
with the MBo I'm planning to buy. Finally, a fan that looks perfect.
No need to do carpentry work on my computer cabinet to make a tower
case fit. Looks like I can stick with my horizontal Lian Li case.
Thanks!

Just for the record, here's what I'm planning to buy. See any
problems? Any advice regarding the memory question?

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E $299.99 ($20 off if I
buy today)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115229

Memory: Crucial 32GB kit (8GBx4) $383.99
http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...=P9X79&Cat=RAM
Possible Memory Alternative:
CORSAIR XMS 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM $167.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233279
(Corsair is less than half the price of the Crucial, but I’ve always
used Crucial and I do like their customer service. And, the timings
for Corsair are 11-11-11-30, where for Crucial they’re 9-9-9-24, which
apparently makes for faster memory performance from Crucial. Still,
we’re talking a difference of over $200. Are the Crucial sticks I’ve
chosen really worth the higher price tag?)

Video Card: PNY VCQ2000-PB Quadro 2000 $399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133353
Both nVidia and Adobe say this works well with Premiere Pro CS6.

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17

Here’s a video from Asus showing how it’s installed in the P9X79 mbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7UjgcU60Yw

Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express
$26.99 (Wanted to use old PCI faxmodem but looks like the P9X79 has
only PCIe slots.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,464 plus shipping, or with Corsair memory, $1,248 plus
shipping.

Current components I’ll re-use:

Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling Silencer 610
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...10-eps12v.html
Boot HD: Samsung 256 Gb SSD
Four large-capacity SATA HDDs
Hauppauge Colossus HD video capture card
Panasonic Blu-Ray/DVD/CD optical drive/burner

Thanks as always for your help!


Your build is a bit of a mixed bag.

The motherboard has a few issues, based on the Newegg reviews.
As long as I thought there'd be no problem returning it,
I wouldn't be too worried.

You're putting a quad core processor in the board. You can get
a quad core in other platforms besides LGA2011. (I.e. Save
money on motherboard, pay ballpark the same for CPU, get
less L3 on the processor perhaps.)

It's possible your 4x8GB memory kit, would work in that other
motherboard as well. You have to be careful, when shopping, to
see whether the processor is rated for 8GB modules or not. For
example, older LGA1366 documentation, might not mention 8GB
modules specifically.

So I'd need to understand what you find attractive about LGA2011.
Maybe it's the ability to double the memory later ? If I was
building up an LGA2011, I'd try to stick a hex core in it, as
that makes the platform more attractive. More expensive as well
though. This is just my personal opinion. I see no point in
pretending you'd upgrade later to a hex core, because that's
not going to happen (after paying for the quad, you're unlikely
to fork out $600 for another one). Some other platform would
come along by then perhaps.

Your system has no ECC on the memory. We have 32GB, but we can't
detect an error in that memory. That always makes me nervous about
large memory kits, is whether there would be an ability to detect
when there's a problem.

The memory subsystem has a higher theoretical bandwidth, but
it's not clear with these systems, how much overall benefit
you get over a system with dual channel memory. Back when
LGA1366 came out (triple channel), the thing still did pretty
well even when run in dual channel mode.

The block diagram for LGA2011 and X79 is here.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...9-Chipset1.png

The PCI Express ports (for video cards) are on the CPU. Which means
there's the potential for relatively high bandwidth between memory and
PCI Express. The Northbridge is inside the CPU, while the Southbridge
is the PCH thing. The characteristics of the PCI Express ports, are
determined by the CPU, which is why you can get PCI Express 3.0 out
of the thing, after the fact. As long as the routing on the board is
ready for 3.0, the clock distribution isn't buggered, all it might take
is a BIOS update (if the feature was initially missing).

It's not clear to me, whether any LGA2011 processors (yet) are PCI
Express 3.0 ? I would have expected to see that in the ark.intel.com
table, if it was an available feature. In any case, PCI Express 3.0
might not be all that necessary. It would take a $500 gamer card,
before you could even measure the difference.

The PCH has USB2 native, no USB3. External chips are used to add USB3.
Intel also makes newer chipsets, with USB3 on the chipset. The "DMI"
interface, while listed as "20Gb/sec", I think that includes both
directions, so it's 10Gb/sec in one direction. 8Gb/sec or 1GB/sec
in one direction after decoding (8B10B code). It means any stuff hosted
off X79, has an aggregate 1GB/sec limit on transfer rate. You have to
watch Intel like a hawk, when checking these diagrams, to figure
out what you're actually getting. For example, I'd have to
download the X79 datasheet and skim read the damn thing, to verify the
"20Gb/sec" and how to interpret it.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...9-Chipset1.png

The capabilities of the Quadro 2000 are shown here. Not an FP64
monster. And based on listed power consumption, it's a lower end
card. So basically you're paying for a name and the software
certification. If the card is only for video editing, personally,
I'd do more research to determine what other cost effective
options are available.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3961/n...uadro-2000-600

It would not be exactly like this desktop video card, as I can't
match the "GF106" GPU number to anything else. But this card is
192/16 (shader/rop) on functional blocks. And the FP64 ratio may
not be far off what is available on a card like this either.
A GTS 450 is in the $100 range. So in rough round numbers, you're
paying $300 for software certification. If you were doing CAD
with the card, it might be worth it. If attempting to speed up
movie editing, I'd do the extra research to find other cards
that could do the job.

http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GTS-450-card-634.html

So at the moment, it looks like you're buying the platform,
for the ability to insert 64GB of memory at some point.
You're getting quad channel. And to see if that's all that
it's cracked up to be, I'd need to track down some benchmarks
for LGA2011, where they try various memory configurations.
(Compare dual channel to quad channel operation.)

*******

On the memory, look through the Newegg listing again. For
a price between the two extremes you noted, you can get
DDR3-1600 CAS9. So you can get decent performance, at a
decent price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...vancedSearch=1


*******

This is a strawman proposal. Just to see how close I could
come with an alternate solution.

I can get almost as much performance (100MHz less) while
saving about $200 on the motherboard.

Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core
Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K $330

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116501

The platform supports QuickSync, as long as the motherboard has
graphics connectors. (QuickSync is for transcoding. May not help
if just doing output render in Premiere.)

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/...up-to-3_90-GHz


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video

You can pair that with a Z75 or Z77 motherboard. USB3 is integrated
in the PCH Southbridge (4 ports).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155

The motherboards are a bit lower in price. This one is $134,
but others are as low as $99. The graphics connectors on
the back, are for when you want to play with QuickSync while
transcoding. This is compared to the $320 for the LGA2011 motherboard.

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157293

That gives you almost as much performance, and the ability to use
32GB max of RAM.

I don't want to spoil your fun. It wouldn't save that much
money to go that way.

The thing about "buying more CPU", is it's always there as
your base performance level. All this "GPU crap", only works
in particular cases. Whereas, when you buy a CPU, it's always
there for you. Even when you're writing an email, all those
cores are ready to go :-)

There's a list of supported GPUs for Mercury playback engine, here.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

http://www.adobe.com/products/premie...ck-engine.html

"Real-time effects with GPU acceleration

Take advantage of the ability of Adobe Premiere Pro CS6, which
requires a 64-bit operating system, to work hand in hand with
NVIDIA CUDA technology... The Mercury Playback Engine uses
NVIDIA GPU cards to provide a GPU-accelerated 32-bit color pipeline,
and most popular effects have been rewritten to run on it — for
example, effects like color correction, the Ultra keyer, and
motion control all run in real time.

...

Compared with CPU-only rendering using a quad-core Intel i7 930
processor running at 2.8GHz, installing an entry-level NVIDIA
Quadro 2000
improves performance by more than six times. A Quadro 5000 yields a
better than eight times performance boost
"

Pretty weird. You'd think with the "extra iron", there'd be more of
a boost. Almost seems like a pretty weak video card, gives you
pretty good boost (for whatever artificial benchmark scenario
they concocted). (I've seen mention of perhaps an artificial
limit on layers the cards can accelerate ? Like Adobe doing it
for Nvidia's benefit. Should be fun tracking down the truth.)

You could try datamining here. Even what seem like relatively
weak cards, seem to see a gain with "MPE on". So it's not clear
how higher end cards help. It's almost like not all the cores
are getting used. It's also possible these benchmarks aren't
"demanding" enough, to show the hardware in a good light.

http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php

Paul

Wow, Paul, what fantastic knowledgeable advice! I am grateful as always.

You asked why I am set on a socket 2011 board. Well, maybe I'm blinded
by latest and greatest syndrome, but the Asus P9X79 seems to be a board
that won't go obsolete anytime soon. Now I did look at Z77 boards as you
suggested, and I found some that would work, but something else you
suggested brought me back to the P9X79. You mentioned that if you were
going that route you'd get a hex core processor. Well, of course! Why not?

As for memory, thanks for the link. The Corsair you suggested is
comparable to what I was looking at with Crucial. Still, the memory at
your link seems not to be ECC either. So I dunno. The price is
certainly better than Crucial, that's for sure.

I've also found a less expensive nVidia card that's on the list of Adobe
Premiere CS6 recommended cards.

So, taking your advice to heart -- or at least a lot of it -- see if you
think these components will give me an even better setup than I'd
planned, and even for a little less money:

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E: $569.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116492

Memory: Corsair: $199.99 (Better timings but still not ECC)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233303

Video Card: EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 $259.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130593

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17

Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express
$26.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,410 plus shipping. (The previous total was $1,464.)

So...what do you think? I don't mind spending that much money, but I do
mind spending it foolishly. I want a great system, and if this isn't
one please be frank. Thanks.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog

Bill Anderson wrote:


Wow, Paul, what fantastic knowledgeable advice! I am grateful as always.

You asked why I am set on a socket 2011 board. Well, maybe I'm blinded
by latest and greatest syndrome, but the Asus P9X79 seems to be a board
that won't go obsolete anytime soon. Now I did look at Z77 boards as you
suggested, and I found some that would work, but something else you
suggested brought me back to the P9X79. You mentioned that if you were
going that route you'd get a hex core processor. Well, of course! Why
not?

As for memory, thanks for the link. The Corsair you suggested is
comparable to what I was looking at with Crucial. Still, the memory at
your link seems not to be ECC either. So I dunno. The price is
certainly better than Crucial, that's for sure.

I've also found a less expensive nVidia card that's on the list of Adobe
Premiere CS6 recommended cards.

So, taking your advice to heart -- or at least a lot of it -- see if you
think these components will give me an even better setup than I'd
planned, and even for a little less money:

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E: $569.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116492

Memory: Corsair: $199.99 (Better timings but still not ECC)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233303

Video Card: EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 $259.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130593

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17


Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express $26.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,410 plus shipping. (The previous total was $1,464.)

So...what do you think? I don't mind spending that much money, but I do
mind spending it foolishly. I want a great system, and if this isn't
one please be frank. Thanks.


The LGA2011 part, implies the user wants to build a high end system.
A system where you wouldn't have regrets later like "if I'd only
spent this much more, my system wouldn't suck so bad". A hex core
is overkill for writing emails, and that's not why you're buying it.
A machine like the one you've constructed above, is because
"time is money" to you. You want the things you do with the
computer, to finish in a reasonable time. For example, for
Photoshop, working with relatively ordinary photo input, such
a system is probably "too much iron", and couldn't justify the
money spent. I've seen photographers spend $5000 on a system,
because someone told them to, and precious little of that money
is actually helping them.

If you're going to regularly work on video, then I would think
the system would be a better match. If you're a casual video editor
(only work on one wedding recording per year), perhaps you could
afford to wait 24 hours for some step in the edit to finish. But
if you're regularly editing video, like every day, then the hex
core thing might make more sense.

And if you use a mix of different softwares, and some of them
aren't GPU accelerated, the hex core is your baseline source
of performance. So the hex core is also planning for some
other, unknown software purchase.

The GTX 570 draws 20.9 watts in the desktop. And draws around 234.5 watts
when gaming. I would expect it would switch to 3D clocks, when the
Mercury Playback Engine is working. You'll need both power
and cooling sufficient for that, if and when it switches
to the 234 watt condition. The card has two PCI Express power
connectors on it (for that class of card), so you'll have to
do the math with respect to the power supply (make sure it
has enough 12V amps, for both the video card and processor load).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gra...0_4.html#sect0

I can't say whether the GTX 570 is the perfect choice with respect
to the Mercury Playback Engine. Or whether Adobe has placed any
limits on what it can help with. If you have other software
that uses CUDA, you might get some benefit from it (like say,
some other transcoding or rendering software). It might be
overkill today, for what MPE can do, for all I know.

*******

The thing about the ECC, is Intel is stingy on support for ECC.
The server platforms, always have it in some form. On desktops,
it's harder to find. There is no ECC support on the desktop
side of LGA2011. But there are LGA2011 Xeon server motherboards,
which would have ECC lanes on the memory interface. I think that
means the ECC lanes are planned for and are part of the 2011 I/O
and power pads. But Intel doesn't bother to enable that stuff
for the desktop platform.

ECC can exact a bit of a performance penalty, as the system probably
needs a "precise" error model. And at the speeds these things run
now, you might discover an ECC error, sometime after the data
has been consumed by the CPU. I don't know to what extent having
ECC would compromise system performance, but on server platforms,
no IT people would want to run without ECC, for fear of having
undetected faults.

I keep reading about "someday, the error rate of denser memory
will go up in a significant way". And we're relying on the
judgment of Intel, that this won't be the case today.

AMD treats the issue differently, in that their architecture
choices tend to be across both desktop and server. AMD is more
likely to support ECC when you need it. AMD uses product
differentiation (coherent Hypertransport connections), to
ensure their server processor purchasers, pay a premium for
the processors that allow building big servers. But for things
like ECC, AMD doesn't use that as a means to force you into
buying server components. Of course, nothing AMD has, will
touch the 3930K. Even if you used a G34 processor with
"16 cores", it's still not as fast. So while AMD does have
a more useful feature mix, they're not really in the running
for this job.

Paul

On 9/13/2012 7:26 AM, Paul wrote:
Bill Anderson wrote:


Wow, Paul, what fantastic knowledgeable advice! I am grateful as always.

You asked why I am set on a socket 2011 board. Well, maybe I'm blinded
by latest and greatest syndrome, but the Asus P9X79 seems to be a
board that won't go obsolete anytime soon. Now I did look at Z77
boards as you suggested, and I found some that would work, but
something else you suggested brought me back to the P9X79. You
mentioned that if you were going that route you'd get a hex core
processor. Well, of course! Why not?

As for memory, thanks for the link. The Corsair you suggested is
comparable to what I was looking at with Crucial. Still, the memory
at your link seems not to be ECC either. So I dunno. The price is
certainly better than Crucial, that's for sure.

I've also found a less expensive nVidia card that's on the list of
Adobe Premiere CS6 recommended cards.

So, taking your advice to heart -- or at least a lot of it -- see if
you think these components will give me an even better setup than I'd
planned, and even for a little less money:

Motherboard: Asus P9X79 $319.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131800

Processor: Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E: $569.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116492

Memory: Corsair: $199.99 (Better timings but still not ECC)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233303

Video Card: EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 $259.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130593

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17


Faxmodem: U.S. Robotics USR5638 V.92 Faxmodem 56Kbps PCI Express
$26.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16825104013

Total: $1,410 plus shipping. (The previous total was $1,464.)

So...what do you think? I don't mind spending that much money, but I
do mind spending it foolishly. I want a great system, and if this
isn't one please be frank. Thanks.


The LGA2011 part, implies the user wants to build a high end system.
A system where you wouldn't have regrets later like "if I'd only
spent this much more, my system wouldn't suck so bad". A hex core
is overkill for writing emails, and that's not why you're buying it.
A machine like the one you've constructed above, is because
"time is money" to you. You want the things you do with the
computer, to finish in a reasonable time. For example, for
Photoshop, working with relatively ordinary photo input, such
a system is probably "too much iron", and couldn't justify the
money spent. I've seen photographers spend $5000 on a system,
because someone told them to, and precious little of that money
is actually helping them.

If you're going to regularly work on video, then I would think
the system would be a better match. If you're a casual video editor
(only work on one wedding recording per year), perhaps you could
afford to wait 24 hours for some step in the edit to finish. But
if you're regularly editing video, like every day, then the hex
core thing might make more sense.

And if you use a mix of different softwares, and some of them
aren't GPU accelerated, the hex core is your baseline source
of performance. So the hex core is also planning for some
other, unknown software purchase.

The GTX 570 draws 20.9 watts in the desktop. And draws around 234.5 watts
when gaming. I would expect it would switch to 3D clocks, when the
Mercury Playback Engine is working. You'll need both power
and cooling sufficient for that, if and when it switches
to the 234 watt condition. The card has two PCI Express power
connectors on it (for that class of card), so you'll have to
do the math with respect to the power supply (make sure it
has enough 12V amps, for both the video card and processor load).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/gra...0_4.html#sect0


I can't say whether the GTX 570 is the perfect choice with respect
to the Mercury Playback Engine. Or whether Adobe has placed any
limits on what it can help with. If you have other software
that uses CUDA, you might get some benefit from it (like say,
some other transcoding or rendering software). It might be
overkill today, for what MPE can do, for all I know.


Actually there's more to my video editing problems than just lengthy
rendering times. Premiere CS6 Pro just barely operates on my current
system. (Asus P5Q Pro Turbo with Core2 Quad 2400 MHz and four gigs of
DDR2 RAM.) I can edit with it, but only barely. When I move the slider
through a one-hour HD video it will hang and I'll wait and wait and wait
while the hard drive runs until finally I gain control again. Very
annoying and a big part of the reason I want to upgrade.

I came awfully close to hitting the purchase button on Newegg late last
night, using the shopping list above, but decided to sleep on it. I'm
sure glad I did.

In the light of morning I saw I'd made a really stupid mistake: I wasn't
buying the motherboard I thought I was buying. I wanted a plain Asus
P9X79, but I'd been looking at a P9X79 Pro without ever noticing that
little Pro word. Argh. The plain board has a couple of things I wanted
which the Pro doesn't have: A PS2 port for my favorite old PS2 keyboard
with which I can boot by pressing the spacebar, and one plain old PCI
slot where I really want to put my old faxmodem. And it costs less, at
$259.

Now from the first computer I ever built, like 20 years ago or so, I've
always used Asus motherboards. Asus is just a name I trust; right or
wrong, I think they're the best. But now that I was doing even more
reading on the internet about the P9X79, I decided to see if anybody had
ever done a comparison with other boards. And I found this at Tom's
Hardware, where an Intel board performed well – not best in all areas,
but well -- and it won best performance per dollar in a comparison
review with the P9X79 and others:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...mark,3138.html

So then I did some reading about the Intel DX79TO motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121552

Not only is the Intel board cheaper at $209.99, but more important, the
layout of PCIe slots works better for me. The GTX570 video card is
“double-wide” and will have to cover a slot. I must have access to two
small PCIe x1 slots, so using the GTX570 with the P9X79 would require me
to hide the board’s only plain old PCI slot, which I really would like
to use. The Intel board has three little PCIe slots, so I can cover one
with no problem. The only thing I want that it doesn't have is a PS2
port. Guess I'll have to dig my USB keyboard out of the closet.

I did go back and look at nVidia Quadro cards again, because some of the
lower-end ones are only single-wide, which means I wouldn't have to
cover a PCIe slot. But they cost more than the GTX line and every
review I read said they're not as fast and not worth the money. So
GTX570 it is. Bye PCIe slot.

I have begun to wonder whether my current power supply will be able to
handle all the new components. This review seems to indicate that an
entire “power hungry” i7 system using a GTX 570 pulls 369W under
heaviest load. My power supply is PC Power and Cooling 610W. It does
have the two required six-pin connectors for the video card.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-570-review/8

So is 610W enough? Looks like it is to me, but I'm no electrical
engineer. Guess I'll find out. And I also sure hope my Lian Li case can
keep all this cool. Guess I'll find about about that too.

So now, here's what my shopping list looks like on Newegg, just waiting
for me to screw up enough courage to hit "Purchase":

Motherboard: Intel BOXDX79TO $209.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121552

Processor: Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E: $569.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116492

Memory: Corsair: $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233303

Video Card: EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 $259.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130593

Cooling Fan: Dynatron R17 $32.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...natron%20r 17

Total: $1,279.93 INCLUDING shipping.

Thoughts? Too tired of this to think about it anymore? I almost am.

--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog