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$20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 07, 01:48 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
Ned
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

What's the best SAN solution I can get for $20K?
Planned uses include storage for student data (we are a school
district)
VMware server virtualization (store virtual machines here for failover)
Email Archiving
Possible Electronic document storage

I realize my knowledge is limited and that I am over simplifying this
but I would appreciate hearing opinions from others:

I received the following quotes from Dell & EMC:

Dell -EMC AX150i
Uses only SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: iSCSI or FC Dual storage processors
Scalability: Single enclosure only (does not scale)
Price: $13,000 with (3) 500GB SATA drives
Total cost: $13,000
Pros: Cheaper iSCSI interface no expensive FC hardware needed
Cons: SATA drives (not as reliable as SCSI) slower 1GB iSCSI connection


Gateway Computer - Xyratex E5402E AKA Gateway E-842R
Uses up to 146GB SAS 15K RPM drives and/or SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: Dual 4GB FC interfaces (no iSCSI support)
Scalability: Can be daisy chained with multiple enclosures
Price: $13,000 with (9) 146GB 15K SAS drives and (3) 500GB SATA II
drives
Additional Cost: $3,600 for Brocade Fabric switch (will need 2 of these
for redundancy)
Additianal Cost: FC HBA's $2,000
Total Cost: $19,000
Pros:Mature FC technology, can mix fast reliable SAS with cheap high
capacity SATA II drives
Cons:Cost, possible learning curve with FC

Thank You
Ned

  #2  
Old January 21st 07, 02:53 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
Ming
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.


Ned wrote:
What's the best SAN solution I can get for $20K?
Planned uses include storage for student data (we are a school
district)
VMware server virtualization (store virtual machines here for failover)
Email Archiving
Possible Electronic document storage


if you have interest to learn, you can have a DIY IP SAN with
http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ which save your big $$$ and
accomplish your task. see its mailing list archive on how people use it
to save $.



I realize my knowledge is limited and that I am over simplifying this
but I would appreciate hearing opinions from others:

I received the following quotes from Dell & EMC:

Dell -EMC AX150i
Uses only SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: iSCSI or FC Dual storage processors
Scalability: Single enclosure only (does not scale)
Price: $13,000 with (3) 500GB SATA drives
Total cost: $13,000
Pros: Cheaper iSCSI interface no expensive FC hardware needed
Cons: SATA drives (not as reliable as SCSI) slower 1GB iSCSI connection


Gateway Computer - Xyratex E5402E AKA Gateway E-842R
Uses up to 146GB SAS 15K RPM drives and/or SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: Dual 4GB FC interfaces (no iSCSI support)
Scalability: Can be daisy chained with multiple enclosures
Price: $13,000 with (9) 146GB 15K SAS drives and (3) 500GB SATA II
drives
Additional Cost: $3,600 for Brocade Fabric switch (will need 2 of these
for redundancy)
Additianal Cost: FC HBA's $2,000
Total Cost: $19,000
Pros:Mature FC technology, can mix fast reliable SAS with cheap high
capacity SATA II drives
Cons:Cost, possible learning curve with FC

Thank You
Ned


  #3  
Old January 22nd 07, 03:15 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
PAUL LEEBER
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.


Ned Wrote:
What's the best SAN solution I can get for $20K?
Planned uses include storage for student data (we are a school
district)
VMware server virtualization (store virtual machines here for
failover)
Email Archiving
Possible Electronic document storage

I realize my knowledge is limited and that I am over simplifying this
but I would appreciate hearing opinions from others:

I received the following quotes from Dell & EMC:

Dell -EMC AX150i
Uses only SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: iSCSI or FC Dual storage processors
Scalability: Single enclosure only (does not scale)
Price: $13,000 with (3) 500GB SATA drives
Total cost: $13,000
Pros: Cheaper iSCSI interface no expensive FC hardware needed
Cons: SATA drives (not as reliable as SCSI) slower 1GB iSCSI
connection


Gateway Computer - Xyratex E5402E AKA Gateway E-842R
Uses up to 146GB SAS 15K RPM drives and/or SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: Dual 4GB FC interfaces (no iSCSI support)
Scalability: Can be daisy chained with multiple enclosures
Price: $13,000 with (9) 146GB 15K SAS drives and (3) 500GB SATA II
drives
Additional Cost: $3,600 for Brocade Fabric switch (will need 2 of
these
for redundancy)
Additianal Cost: FC HBA's $2,000
Total Cost: $19,000
Pros:Mature FC technology, can mix fast reliable SAS with cheap high
capacity SATA II drives
Cons:Cost, possible learning curve with FC

Thank You
Ned


Have you considered refurbished equipment?? You can get an enterprise
solution for the price of some of these lower end solutions. Usually
the refurb solution can come with warranty and support same as new.

We have some EMC machines that could fit your budget. I would be happy
to go over some options with you
you can call me 781 982 9664 ask for Paul Leeber if nothing else I can
educate you on some of the features you want to look for when you make
your purchase. I am sure this SAN won't be your last so why spend alot
an get stuck into one type of technology

regards




--
PAUL LEEBER
  #4  
Old January 22nd 07, 04:22 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
Ned
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

Thanks. I do have an interest to learn but there is not enough time. My
employer wants a quote in a few days and I cannot take a risk with
something I no so little about. I would appreciate hearing what others
have purchased for this price.

Ming wrote:
Ned wrote:
What's the best SAN solution I can get for $20K?
Planned uses include storage for student data (we are a school
district)
VMware server virtualization (store virtual machines here for failover)
Email Archiving
Possible Electronic document storage


if you have interest to learn, you can have a DIY IP SAN with
http://iscsitarget.sourceforge.net/ which save your big $$$ and
accomplish your task. see its mailing list archive on how people use it
to save $.



I realize my knowledge is limited and that I am over simplifying this
but I would appreciate hearing opinions from others:

I received the following quotes from Dell & EMC:

Dell -EMC AX150i
Uses only SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: iSCSI or FC Dual storage processors
Scalability: Single enclosure only (does not scale)
Price: $13,000 with (3) 500GB SATA drives
Total cost: $13,000
Pros: Cheaper iSCSI interface no expensive FC hardware needed
Cons: SATA drives (not as reliable as SCSI) slower 1GB iSCSI connection


Gateway Computer - Xyratex E5402E AKA Gateway E-842R
Uses up to 146GB SAS 15K RPM drives and/or SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: Dual 4GB FC interfaces (no iSCSI support)
Scalability: Can be daisy chained with multiple enclosures
Price: $13,000 with (9) 146GB 15K SAS drives and (3) 500GB SATA II
drives
Additional Cost: $3,600 for Brocade Fabric switch (will need 2 of these
for redundancy)
Additianal Cost: FC HBA's $2,000
Total Cost: $19,000
Pros:Mature FC technology, can mix fast reliable SAS with cheap high
capacity SATA II drives
Cons:Cost, possible learning curve with FC

Thank You
Ned


  #5  
Old January 22nd 07, 07:56 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
Faeandar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

On 20 Jan 2007 04:48:19 -0800, "Ned" wrote:

What's the best SAN solution I can get for $20K?
Planned uses include storage for student data (we are a school
district)
VMware server virtualization (store virtual machines here for failover)
Email Archiving
Possible Electronic document storage

I realize my knowledge is limited and that I am over simplifying this
but I would appreciate hearing opinions from others:

I received the following quotes from Dell & EMC:

Dell -EMC AX150i
Uses only SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: iSCSI or FC Dual storage processors
Scalability: Single enclosure only (does not scale)
Price: $13,000 with (3) 500GB SATA drives
Total cost: $13,000
Pros: Cheaper iSCSI interface no expensive FC hardware needed
Cons: SATA drives (not as reliable as SCSI) slower 1GB iSCSI connection


Gateway Computer - Xyratex E5402E AKA Gateway E-842R
Uses up to 146GB SAS 15K RPM drives and/or SATA II drives (up to 12)
Interface: Dual 4GB FC interfaces (no iSCSI support)
Scalability: Can be daisy chained with multiple enclosures
Price: $13,000 with (9) 146GB 15K SAS drives and (3) 500GB SATA II
drives
Additional Cost: $3,600 for Brocade Fabric switch (will need 2 of these
for redundancy)
Additianal Cost: FC HBA's $2,000
Total Cost: $19,000
Pros:Mature FC technology, can mix fast reliable SAS with cheap high
capacity SATA II drives
Cons:Cost, possible learning curve with FC

Thank You
Ned



I can't say I'd recommend either of those, though I can at least
confirm that the Brocade switch cost seems appropriate. The HBA's
seem a little high, I would expect them to be about US$1200.

You did not mention performance requirements, if any. Backups.
Multi-host access. etc. So it may be hard for people to give you
recommendations or even comment on the list you provided.

Personally, I'd stay away from EMC. Most of their products, imo,
suck. The exception is the DMX line, which is rock solid and fast,
but still EMC. I just hate those guys so take my opinion for what it
is, opinion (but with experience).

I would HIGHLY recommend staying away from purchasing something like
this on a timeline. If the employer is so darned fired up about
timeline they should have started earlier. It would be well worth it
in the long run to spend time on the initial details and planning. If
not, you will spend alot more money later on.

My personal preferences for storage in this line are Nexsan and STK
(engenio rebrand I believe). Good, solid stuff with decent support
and low cost in their class. The STK line is fairly high performance
so it might be overkill. The Nexsan is very cost effective in my
experience and works fine.

~F
  #6  
Old January 23rd 07, 03:22 AM posted to comp.arch.storage
Bill Todd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 162
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

Ned wrote:
Thanks. I do have an interest to learn but there is not enough time. My
employer wants a quote in a few days and I cannot take a risk with
something I no so little about. I would appreciate hearing what others
have purchased for this price.


Well, NAS solutions, for one, since you have not specified any
requirements that would preclude using them (save possibly the VMware
images - and even they may be manageable if they can be packaged as
files). It should be far easier to install and manage, and your budget
limit makes it clear that it could easily scale to whatever sizes $20K
of SAN would buy you.

- bill
  #7  
Old January 30th 07, 12:44 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

On Jan 23, 2:22 am, Bill Todd wrote:
Ned wrote:
Thanks. I do have an interest to learn but there is not enough time. My
employer wants a quote in a few days and I cannot take a risk with
something I no so little about. I would appreciate hearing what others
have purchased for this price.


Well, NAS solutions, for one, since you have not specified any
requirements that would preclude using them (save possibly the VMware
images - and even they may be manageable if they can be packaged as
files). It should be far easier to install and manage, and your budget
limit makes it clear that it could easily scale to whatever sizes $20K
of SAN would buy you.

- bill


I agree with Bill,
Not because I work for a NAS company (we don't have anything at all
for this price) but because he is right.

None of the requirements you name require the performance profile of a
SAN so you don't need the complexity and cost of management over time
that owning a SAN entails. A NAS system will perform just fine for
the applications mentioned and be a whole lot cheaper to buy and
manage than an equivelently sized SAN.

I also agree with the contributor who said don't let yourself be
crowded into making a descision. It is you who will ultimately take
the blame if the kit does not fit your requirement.

Roland

  #8  
Old January 31st 07, 12:38 PM posted to comp.arch.storage
Ned
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default $20,000 SAN budget - not sure which to choose.

Thanks for your responses. I realize I did not give much detail about
my environment so I am posting some more information.
From what I have read it seems as though a NAS may work just fine. If

so, what would you recommend?
Also, I keep hearing about the complexity of SANS, I currently manage
everything on my network, is SAN very difficult?
thanks in advance.
NH

We are a school district comprised of 8 buildings connected over a
point to point GigE network (Full GigE from each school to the hub
school).
Total number of students is about 5,000. Total staff is about 600.
Total number of severs is 25.
We have GigE connectivity down to the desktop.
We are running Exch. 2003, Oracle, SQL, SMS 2003, Epolicy
Orchestrator, and several sever based applications for student,
library, and transportation.
All buildings have an existing SM and MM fiber optic infrastructure
with plenty of extra pairs of SM & MM in each closet.

Goals:
Move file storage from distributed servers to a single location at the
hub school.
Remove tape as primary backup and use backup 2 disk over high speed
connection (FC?) to a VTL located in the far end of the hub building.
Archive to tape.
Begin moving some servers to Vmware with a design that allows failover
in the event of a server problem.
Accomodate future projects such as streaming video, electronic
document management, and anything else that might come along.









On Jan 30, 6:44 am, wrote:
On Jan 23, 2:22 am, Bill Todd wrote:

Ned wrote:
Thanks. I do have an interest to learn but there is not enough time. My
employer wants a quote in a few days and I cannot take a risk with
something I no so little about. I would appreciate hearing what others
have purchased for this price.


Well, NAS solutions, for one, since you have not specified any
requirements that would preclude using them (save possibly the VMware
images - and even they may be manageable if they can be packaged as
files). It should be far easier to install and manage, and your budget
limit makes it clear that it could easily scale to whatever sizes $20K
of SAN would buy you.


- bill


I agree with Bill,
Not because I work for a NAS company (we don't have anything at all
for this price) but because he is right.

None of the requirements you name require the performance profile of a
SAN so you don't need the complexity and cost of management over time
that owning a SAN entails. A NAS system will perform just fine for
the applications mentioned and be a whole lot cheaper to buy and
manage than an equivelently sized SAN.

I also agree with the contributor who said don't let yourself be
crowded into making a descision. It is you who will ultimately take
the blame if the kit does not fit your requirement.

Roland



 




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