Corrupt NTFS filesystem

kony wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 00:17:27 -0700, wrote:

Eg FAT has 2 copies of the FAT, and when an error ocurs, as
they do, scandisk just picks one at random and overwrites the other.

If you have errors, fix the problem.

nice idea, but optimistic

Not at all, NTFS is not a solution to a serious problem like
continual corruption of your filesystem. Optimistic would
be hoping that if you run NTFS, somehow the machine will
decide to only corrupt tables and nothing more.

You said fix the problem. If you know how to make 98 manage memory
properly and not crash regularly, occasionally leaving FAT problems
behind, I'm all ears!


NT

Citizen Bob wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I did not test the FAT32 filesystem long enough
to be certain that it fixed the corruption problem.

Why not when that involves running chkdsk ?

I ran chkdsk. The corruption problem occurs seemingly at
random. The longer I go between reboots, the more likely
corruption is. I have gone as long as a week with no
problems only to have it back again on the next day.

That sounds like some fundamental hardware problem
like the motherboard doesnt like the ram much.

I'd run memtest86 overnight every night because it
looks rather like the problem is rather intermittent.

Now that I am using a new NTFS partition, we will see if
it gets corrupted. It takes a week or two to make sure.

No it doesnt if you run chkdsk.

You don't seem to understand the exact nature of this problem.

You never did say it very clearly.

I have to reboot to run chkdsk, and that is when the
corruption shows up. It does not show up unless I reboot.

Likely that is just because it isnt corrupted enough to affect normal ops.

Ironically, if the corruption occurs, Win2K runs chkdsk for me at boot time.

Thats rather odd. That may be a coincidence tho, just that you are
only aware of the corruption when chkdsk is run and when 2K chooses
to run it, presumably because it decides that it wasnt shut down
properly, you see the corruption just because chkdsk has been run.

Sometimes the corruption is so extensive that I get a BSOD. That's when
I have to mount the disk as D: and run chkdsk from another boot disk.

Thats even odder.

When that happens chkdsk spews forth page after page of security
descripters for kazillions of files that are presumably corrupted too.

I have always been able to recover with one exception
involving a BSOD. That one was so bad the disk would
not mount in Win2K, so obviously I could not run chkdsk.

On 26 Oct 2006 11:43:06 -0700, wrote:

kony wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 00:17:27 -0700, wrote:

Eg FAT has 2 copies of the FAT, and when an error ocurs, as
they do, scandisk just picks one at random and overwrites the other.

If you have errors, fix the problem.

nice idea, but optimistic

Not at all, NTFS is not a solution to a serious problem like
continual corruption of your filesystem. Optimistic would
be hoping that if you run NTFS, somehow the machine will
decide to only corrupt tables and nothing more.

You said fix the problem. If you know how to make 98 manage memory
properly and not crash regularly, occasionally leaving FAT problems
behind, I'm all ears!



Non-applicable, '98 doesn't allow the choice of NTFS.

I do have systems that run FAT32 on '98 though, and can't
recall the last time any files were lost.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:11:26 GMT, (Citizen Bob)
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:56:09 -0400, kony wrote:

It's the computer doing it, automated, right now I could
export the 3 keys,

Which 3 keys - my Registry has 5 hive keys.

I must have missed something along the way, because I do not see how
exporting hive keys is going to do any good. If the Registry is
screwed up, then exporting hive keys is going to carry the screwed up
parts along.

I mentioned specific keys.

"IF" the registry is screwed up and that's the problem, then
reproducing that problem by only copying some reg keys will
at least help to isolate it.

I can see you are still not understanding the situation- the
only thing keeping you from having a properly working
system is _you_. You are trying to think, or argue, instead
of _doing_. Taking the approach you have, no problems
anyone has would be solved, but clearly problems do get
solved.

kony wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 11:43:06 -0700, wrote:
kony wrote:
On 26 Oct 2006 00:17:27 -0700, wrote:

Eg FAT has 2 copies of the FAT, and when an error ocurs, as
they do, scandisk just picks one at random and overwrites the other.

If you have errors, fix the problem.

nice idea, but optimistic

Not at all, NTFS is not a solution to a serious problem like
continual corruption of your filesystem. Optimistic would
be hoping that if you run NTFS, somehow the machine will
decide to only corrupt tables and nothing more.

You said fix the problem. If you know how to make 98 manage memory
properly and not crash regularly, occasionally leaving FAT problems
behind, I'm all ears!

Non-applicable, '98 doesn't allow the choice of NTFS.

I've put ntfs on 98, courtesy of Mr Russinovich. Read only
unfortunately.


I do have systems that run FAT32 on '98 though, and can't
recall the last time any files were lost.

Lucky you. Maybe mostly running older drives comes into it too, but
I've seen 98 mangle a FAT on several occasion.


NT

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:30:49 -0400, kony wrote:

I can see you are still not understanding the situation- the
only thing keeping you from having a properly working
system is _you_. You are trying to think, or argue, instead
of _doing_. Taking the approach you have, no problems
anyone has would be solved, but clearly problems do get
solved.

Thanks for the lecture.


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 05:24:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

That sounds like some fundamental hardware problem
like the motherboard doesnt like the ram much.

I'd run memtest86 overnight every night because it
looks rather like the problem is rather intermittent.

I have run it but not every night.

You never did say it very clearly.

I did many times earlier. This thread has been recurring for several
months now. Apparently you were not participating on this particular
forum back then.

I have to reboot to run chkdsk, and that is when the
corruption shows up. It does not show up unless I reboot.

Likely that is just because it isnt corrupted enough to affect normal ops.

It is pretty corrupted when it BSODs. CHKDSK fusses about all sorts of
things. I posted a file containing all the crap CHKDSK fixed and it is
several pages long. Next time I get a BSOD, I will post it again.

Ironically, if the corruption occurs, Win2K runs chkdsk for me at boot time.

Thats rather odd. That may be a coincidence tho, just that you are
only aware of the corruption when chkdsk is run and when 2K chooses
to run it, presumably because it decides that it wasnt shut down
properly, you see the corruption just because chkdsk has been run.

There are entries in the Event Viewer - "corrupt ntfs volume, run
chkdsk". Not very helpful. Nothing else seems to be wrong in EV.

After a few days of running the "new" NTFS partition, the one made
from the earlier FAT32, I finally got a corrupt disk. When it was
booting it ran CHKDSK on its own. The only apparent problem was "blank
space in the MFT".


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:45:03 -0400, kony wrote:

All you have to do is make a clean
installation, export the appropriate registry keys and copy
over the installation folders and shortcuts for the start
menu.

I still do not know what Registry keys you are referring to.

It is very likely that the corrupt ntfs filesystem is coming from a
Registry key. So how do I prevent it from contaminating the new
install?


--

"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge

Citizen Bob wrote
Rod Speed wrote

That sounds like some fundamental hardware problem
like the motherboard doesnt like the ram much.

I'd run memtest86 overnight every night because it
looks rather like the problem is rather intermittent.

I have run it but not every night.

I'd run it every night for a few weeks, because it
looks like it might well be an intermittent problem.

You never did say it very clearly.

I did many times earlier.

Nope, you never spelt it out that clearly before.

It wasnt initially clear that reformat to FAT32 had fixed just
SOME of the problems and not the duplicate entrys either.

This thread has been recurring for several months now.
Apparently you were not participating on this particular
forum back then.

Its silly to rely memory of stuff that far back even if I was.
There's been a few more than just you with problems over that time.

I have to reboot to run chkdsk, and that is when the
corruption shows up. It does not show up unless I reboot.

Likely that is just because it isnt corrupted enough to affect normal ops.

It is pretty corrupted when it BSODs.

Sure, I meant when it doesnt, just runs chkdsk itself at boot time.

CHKDSK fusses about all sorts of things. I posted a file
containing all the crap CHKDSK fixed and it is several
pages long. Next time I get a BSOD, I will post it again.

Dont bother, I can find it using groups.google
and the detail really doesnt matter much.

Ironically, if the corruption occurs, Win2K runs chkdsk for me at boot time.

Thats rather odd. That may be a coincidence tho, just that you are
only aware of the corruption when chkdsk is run and when 2K chooses
to run it, presumably because it decides that it wasnt shut down
properly, you see the corruption just because chkdsk has been run.

There are entries in the Event Viewer - "corrupt ntfs volume, run chkdsk".

And that is something you should have said earlier too.

Not very helpful.

Dunno, how soon those show up might well be useful info
about how soon you start seeing corruption after a cleanup.

Nothing else seems to be wrong in EV.

After a few days of running the "new" NTFS partition, the
one made from the earlier FAT32, I finally got a corrupt
disk. When it was booting it ran CHKDSK on its own.

When did the first EV entry show up in that sequence ?

The only apparent problem was "blank space in the MFT".

Clearly something is screwing with the directory structures.

I'd personally do a clean install of 2K on a spare hard drive
and run that for days to see if that gets corrupted too. Basically
to see if the problem is with the hardware or a ****ed 2K install.

It'd be hilarious if it turns out to be those removable drive bays that are doing it.

On 27 Oct 2006 01:22:05 -0700, wrote:


I do have systems that run FAT32 on '98 though, and can't
recall the last time any files were lost.

Lucky you. Maybe mostly running older drives comes into it too, but
I've seen 98 mangle a FAT on several occasion.


Nope not old drives, and not luck. Though win98 had several
issues people were frequently glad to be rid of moving to NT
based OS, losing files because of FAT32 just wasn't one of
them.