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#1
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Any ideas? Anthony K. |
#2
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Anthony K. wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety. Here's some examples from one vendor: Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287 Yousuf Khan |
#3
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Anthony K. -removeme wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? Not to my knowledge. There used to be very expensive SCSI floppy controllers, that could also handle 5.25" drives, but that was way past. They did cost more than a cheap PC. If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Very unlikely. These IDE-USB bridges do not understand floppies. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? Not as far as I know. My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Any ideas? What is it you actually want to do? The additional problem with your MAC is that it very likely cannot handle the 5.25" floppy formats anyways. The only option I see is to get a cheap (used?) PC in addition and read the data off from those floppies and transfer it over, e.g. by memory stick. AFAIK, you will need to use either Linux or DOS to read the disks, as not even XP does support 5.25" floppies. Under Linux, it should not be too much of a problem though. Incidentially, it could be a problem _getting_ a working 5.25" floppy these days. AFAIK they have not been manufatured for quite some time. Also make sure to get the right one. There are 40/80 track, single/double-sided, and HD drives out there. Only the HD drives can read all formatsm but should not be used to write 40 track disks. Arno |
#4
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:15:56 -0400, Yousuf Khan put
finger to keyboard and composed: Anthony K. wrote: Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety. Here's some examples from one vendor: Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287 Yousuf Khan If you can find a case with a standard +5V and +12V supply, plus the standard 34-pin connector, then you should be able to remove the 3.5" FDD and replace it with a 5.25" drive. You will need an adapter for the power connector, though. I suspect, however, that the 3.5" drive in the external enclosure may not use a standard PC interface. See the following pinouts: http://pinouts.ru/Storage/5_12_floppy_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/26pin_micr...y_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/DiskCables/Floppy_pinout.shtml Be wary of USB powered enclosures as these may not have enough power (500mA max at +5V) for a 5.25" drive. Also be aware that PC FDDs are jumpered as drive 1, not drive 0, so you will either have to find a cable with a twist, or determine how to re-jumper your drive. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#5
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:15:56 -0400, Yousuf Khan put finger to keyboard and composed: Anthony K. wrote: Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety. Here's some examples from one vendor: Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287 Yousuf Khan If you can find a case with a standard +5V and +12V supply, plus the standard 34-pin connector, then you should be able to remove the 3.5" FDD and replace it with a 5.25" drive. You will need an adapter for the power connector, though. I suspect, however, that the 3.5" drive in the external enclosure may not use a standard PC interface. See the following pinouts: http://pinouts.ru/Storage/5_12_floppy_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/26pin_micr...y_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml http://pinouts.ru/DiskCables/Floppy_pinout.shtml Be wary of USB powered enclosures as these may not have enough power (500mA max at +5V) for a 5.25" drive. Also be aware that PC FDDs are jumpered as drive 1, not drive 0, so you will either have to find a cable with a twist, or determine how to re-jumper your drive. There are some additional problems: - Some 3.5" USB floppy do not have a Shuggart bus (mine has not). Youd id mention that. - Many 5.25" Floppies have a very low resistance (120R) pullup on /step /date and, I think, /WR, while most 3.5" floppies just draw one standard TTL load (1.6mA). You may need singal drivers or need to find and cut the pullups. - HD 5.25" floppis run at 360rpm instead of the 300rpm all 3.5" floppies run at. That may confuse the controller and may make access impossible. Arno |
#6
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for many years alongside a 3.5" FDD. It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk 5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc. Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that. Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC + Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another old computer. Anthony |
#7
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
Anthony K. -removeme wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for many years alongside a 3.5" FDD. It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk 5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc. Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that. Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC + Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another old computer. Well, I has a similar but easier problem with my old Atari ST floppies. Fortunately they have the standard PC format. The way I went is that I made sector0-images of them all, currently on a memory-stick and on several file0servers. I do not really know how I can mount them though. The first thiong I would try is a loopback mount under Linux of the image files. It is just too much effort to keep the old hardware running IMO. Arno |
#8
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
In article , Yousuf Khan wrote:
Anthony K. wrote: Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure. Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE interface? My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the drive properly. Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety. Here's some examples from one vendor: Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287 Yousuf Khan Heres a 3 1/2 ide floppy drive from clear back in 1998 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_20324080/ |
#9
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
In article , Arno wrote:
Anthony K. -removeme wrote: Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for many years alongside a 3.5" FDD. It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk 5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc. Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that. Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC + Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another old computer. Well, I has a similar but easier problem with my old Atari ST floppies. Fortunately they have the standard PC format. The way I went is that I made sector0-images of them all, currently on a memory-stick and on several file0servers. I do not really know how I can mount them though. The first thiong I would try is a loopback mount under Linux of the image files. It is just too much effort to keep the old hardware running IMO. Arno It was a piece of cake to make a 5 1/4 floppy drive for the ST. I have one sitting in my closet. |
#10
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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:57:53 -0700, "Anthony K."
-removeme put finger to keyboard and composed: It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk 5.25",... SMSC had a USB bridge chip (USB97CFDC2-01) that supported "640K, 720K, 1.44M, 1.2M Windows 98 J, and 1.2M NEC DOS 6.x Formats": http://www.keil.com/dd/docs/datashts...usb97cfdc2.pdf Its USB VID and PID were 0424 and 0fdc. Perhaps you could determine the VID and PID of the bridge chip in a prospective USB floppy enclosure by interrogating it using UVCView (Microsoft), or an equivalent Linux or MAC utility. Then search for a datasheet. If the box has Windows 98SE drivers, then the VID and PID should appear in its INF file. In fact, according to page 5 of the driver installation instructions, the Sabrent model SBT-UFDB USB floppy uses an SMSC chip: http://www.micropactech.com/drivers/...e%20Driver.pdf http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...9134&CatId=287 Unfortunately it is USB powered (500mA max) and does not appear to support transfer rates less than 500Kbps. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
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