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#1
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ArcServe vs. BackupExec
Hi!
We've been using ArcServe for NT/W2K for a number of years. Our software vendor is pushing us to switch over to BackupExec ("it's got a clearer roadmap"). I'm trying to analyse the sales bumpf from both companies to work out if one is clearer better than the other. Have any of you guys used both ArcServe and Exec recently (the latest versions) and come up with a clear opinion as to which you prefer? This will be for new W2K/2003 servers to be installed in an ongoing basis. We will have each server backup itself and no other machine, just nightly backups, nothing too fancy. We have about 40 servers. We keep moaning about ArcServe, but I'm wondering if BackupExec is vastly superior and is worth the bother. Any comments would be appreciated, Thanks, John Seed |
#3
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"Faeandar" wrote in message
s.com... I saw ArcServe in production several years ago (3 employers ago) and it was in the tank every week. I saw Backup Exec in production the next employer and he swore by it. No hands-on experience but what I've seen leads me to believe Backup Exec is much better. Of course now that Veritas owns it who knows, but Veritas can't be worse than CA, imo. ~F Both products are of comparable quality. Set them up properly and they both do their job. Make a mistake or don't think your installation through, both will fail miserably. soapbox One thing I've always hated about these products is their failure modes. In real life problems will always occur. Networks are not infallable, disks do crash every now and then, bad memory happens, and bad media does exist. In all of these cases, both products send you on a ghost hunt with cryptic, sometimes dead wrong error messages and unclear recovery procedures. Their internal structures get confused easily, and often the only way out is a clean install, removing indexes, device definitions or job schedules. I think both BackupExec and ArcServe were once a clean design, 10 years ago. Over the years the same core that was designed to back up Windows 3.1 has been expanded to do new tricks and live up to ever more featuritis. They now are both way past stability and in dire need for a complete overhaul. /soapbox I would take a serious look at products of more recent design or which went through a thorough re-implementation. NetVault and Commvault are good examples. Check them out Rob |
#4
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What's your beef with ArcServe? Not that I think it's great SW, but it
would help if we knew what frustrates you about it... ArcServe ain't going nowhere for a while. For one thing, CA can barely give away their enterprise product after the debacle that was BEB 10.0 (10.5 is much less buggy). ArcServe is their "toe in the door" of many shops, and they're continuing development on it. Matter of fact, most of the interface code is shared between both BEB and BAB. For another thing, lots of vendors have separate entry-level and mid-range solutions. After all, Veritas has Netbackup as well as BackupExec, but that doesn't mean they're going to leave BackupExec users in the rain. Ask your SW vendor about the "roadmap" for BackupExec and see what he says. My feeling is that your vendor: 1. Has a new relationship with Veritas or; 2. Is having problems with their relationship with CA or; 3. Is trying to fix problems with their Veritas relationship. HighHorseDon't do a damn thing just because your SW vendor is spreading FUD. That's a very shady method of selling, and when I was a customer, if someone tried to pull that kind of crap with me, I went elsewhere for my software. I suggest ****ing him off by taking his suggestion and taking a look at other backup products, such as BakBone's NetVault, SyncSort, etc. Contact those companies directly, so he doesn't have a chance to get the business./HighHorse As far as the comparison between ArcServe and BackupExec is concerned, both have their shortcomings. I agree with Rob Turk's soapbox too.... Commvault is a nice product, but pricier than the other packages. Netvault is an excellent product, but is a bit lacking in documentation, as many new packages are. But it's cheap, and as idiot-proof as backup software can possibly be. I especially recommend Netvault if you have any Netapp gear in house. Don't have any experience with Syncsort, but I hear it's cool. Also, if I had a dollar for every customer who blamed the backup software for broken and/or underpowered hardware, I'd be a rich man. Don't blow your wad on backup software if what you really need is some better hardware or gigE between your clients and backup server. As an engineer, I find myself being dragged into meeting where the salesguy thought he was going to sell some SW, and ends up deploying a cheap gig backup network and a $10k LTO stacker instead. I suggest you insist on live trials of everything, and work with it for a month or so before buying. --paul "John Seed" wrote in message om... Hi! We've been using ArcServe for NT/W2K for a number of years. Our software vendor is pushing us to switch over to BackupExec ("it's got a clearer roadmap"). I'm trying to analyse the sales bumpf from both companies to work out if one is clearer better than the other. Have any of you guys used both ArcServe and Exec recently (the latest versions) and come up with a clear opinion as to which you prefer? This will be for new W2K/2003 servers to be installed in an ongoing basis. We will have each server backup itself and no other machine, just nightly backups, nothing too fancy. We have about 40 servers. We keep moaning about ArcServe, but I'm wondering if BackupExec is vastly superior and is worth the bother. Any comments would be appreciated, Thanks, John Seed |
#5
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sarcasmPaul, I can't believe you doubt the true intentions of my SW
vendor in promoting BackupExec. And I thought he's change in direction was down purely to his desire to constantly strive towards providing us with the best software for our business./sarcasm Seriously, thanks for the input. I'll take the comments on board. Our "beef" with ArcServe was only really that we didn't understand it. The cryptic error messages that it comes up with certainly never helped. When it used to break and not run and then we would fix it the next day, it would immediately fire into life and start on the previous nights backup, which meant that it ran the pre execution task of shutting down the DB's and booting all the users off. OK, when you're ready for this and cater for it happening but frustrating (and embarrasing) when you're not. After 5 years we're used to ArcServe, we almost actually like it John |
#6
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If you're running successful, reliable backup with ArcServe, then I wouldn't
replace it. You'll find yourself spending six months deciphering cryptic error messages from BackupExec (as opposed to deciphering cryptic messages from ArcServe (which you already know about). ArcServe is not the vastly superior product you're looking for. If you want an upgrade, look at NetVault. The price will be right around the price for BackupExec. You can always give it a try and see if you like it, but I recommend that you take a look at bakbone's trial too. --paul Our "beef" with ArcServe was only really that we didn't understand it. The cryptic error messages that it comes up with certainly never helped. When it used to break and not run and then we would fix it the next day, it would immediately fire into life and start on the previous nights backup, which meant that it ran the pre execution task of shutting down the DB's and booting all the users off. OK, when you're ready for this and cater for it happening but frustrating (and embarrasing) when you're not. After 5 years we're used to ArcServe, we almost actually like it |
#7
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#8
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You know, it's very interesting what you say. I've very rapidly become very
negative about ArcServe. We recently bought a nice 8-slot dell autochanger, along with ArcServe (the version we got was Arcserve 2000, which it seems is NOT particularly up to date!). My initial feelings were "this software is no better than tape software was 15 to 20 years ago". Ok, it has a prettier front end, but is just as difficult to use, and the documentation is pants! (Yes, if you understand the product, then the docs maybe make sense... but if you understand the product, you probably no longer need the docs!!!) We are using ArcServe across our network, specifically for 4 tasks: - backup our (small) SQL server - backup our (slightly bigger) exchange server - back up about 20 gig of "central data" - back up about 100g from a "ghost" server We've had all sorts of issues, and ended up recently with a screwed up database, which needed a full reinstall. Now, after about 10 hours of telephone support (maybe that should say "support / TRAINING") from Dell, things are starting to make a *bit* of sense, and we are, at last, starting to make progress in actually being SUCCESSFUL in making tape backups! I too would like to hear of what otehrs think about ArcServe, and other viable alternatives for our setup (bear in mind we need across-network backup, and clients to support SQL / Exchange / Open Files). paul |
#9
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In article ,
paul blitz wrote: My initial feelings were "this software is no better than tape software was 15 to 20 years ago". This *is* your father's Oldsmobile. -- I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. All these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-' Time for your nap. | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U` |
#10
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Exchange is where ArcServe really stinks. It normally backs up fine, but
the restores are squirrelly when trying to go directly to Exchange. Certainly not all the blame lies with CA, cuz Exchange really stinks all by itself. If you're not already at Exchange 2000, be prepared to re-learn the restore procedures when you upgrade. Try getting the new version of ArcServe; I think it's at version 9. As far as your applications go, almost every package you could look at (CommVault, Netbackup, Networker, NetVault, Backup Express, Backup Exec, etc) has plugins available to support them. I personally like CommVault (Galaxy), BakBone (NetVault), and SyncSort (Backup Express). My least favorites are CA's offerings (ArcServe and Enterprise Backup), because they're so buggy. I try to stay away from Backup Exec. Two packages that have their place is Legato Networker and Veritas Netbackup, but the learning curve for these products can be steep. Everybody OEMs the same open file manager from St. Bernard software. They have the only one that's reasonably reliable. Legato tried writing their own OFM a few years ago, and it just didn't work. The shameful fact is that St. Bernard has the whole backup and restore industry by the short hairs, and that's why it tends to be one of the more expensive agents. But keep in mind that no matter what options you've purchased, there's no way to backup a large .pst file while outlook is open without some sort of snapshot. --paul We are using ArcServe across our network, specifically for 4 tasks: - backup our (small) SQL server - backup our (slightly bigger) exchange server - back up about 20 gig of "central data" - back up about 100g from a "ghost" server We've had all sorts of issues, and ended up recently with a screwed up database, which needed a full reinstall. Now, after about 10 hours of telephone support (maybe that should say "support / TRAINING") from Dell, things are starting to make a *bit* of sense, and we are, at last, starting to make progress in actually being SUCCESSFUL in making tape backups! I too would like to hear of what otehrs think about ArcServe, and other viable alternatives for our setup (bear in mind we need across-network backup, and clients to support SQL / Exchange / Open Files). paul |
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