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Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 24th 19, 02:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

On 24/06/2019 6:50 PM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
On 23/06/2019 10:34 PM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
On 23/06/2019 2:46 PM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
A while back I purchased a Dell Latitude E7440 laptop which came with a standard HDD fitted.
However it has a WWAN / mSATA slot available so I bought an mSATA drive. I was short of money
at the time and couldn't afford my usual Samsung Evo SSD so bought a Chinese 'KingSpec' SSD.

I cloned the OS and 'system' partitions from the HDD to the SSD and it worked well, for
almost a year now no issues at all, fast and stable. I left a HDD in the laptop as well for
data storage.

Then (after having run it on my Dell desktop to update drivers) I decided to run Dell
SupportAssist on the laptop last night. It ran driver updates check, said it found updates
(but didn't download or install them, it does that after all of the testing is finished).

Then it went on to hardware testing, got to 70% done after a few minutes and was testing the
'HDD' for various things ("Funneling" was on screen last I think?) when the screen went black
with the message 'Your computer has encountered an error and needs to restart". That's never
good..

On restart within about a second the screen shows "Invalid partition table!" followed by a
blinking cursor and nothing further happens. Damn!

I pulled the mSATA SSD and, using an adapter connected it via USB3 to my desktop (A Dell
Optiplex 9020) and I can see both the 100MB system partition and C: just fine. I was hoping
that perhaps I'd be prompted to 'fix' a partition table. I also connected the laptops data
driver to the desktop in case that was the issue (I've moved the default Windows user data
files to that to save space on the SSD) but that is fine too.

So I'm assuming there's an issue with the UEFI / 100MB 'system' partition that the test
caused? (Possibly due to perhaps something non-compliant with the cheap SSD..) If so is there
any way I can fix it without going through a complete OS install? (Would that even work if
it's a UEFI issue?) It always takes me ages to get the OS and programmes just how I like them
so if the 'system' partition is fixable that would be awesome.

I know that this may not be strictly a hardware issue (but think it's likely related to the
SSD as SupportAssist has always run fine for me on machines with Samsung SSDs) but I'm hoping
someone here might be able to help - or maybe point me in the right direction to get help.

Thanks for reading.

Do you have a Macrium CD ?

Do you have a Macrium USB stick ?

If so, those have "boot repair".

But your symptoms aren't a boot issue as such, because
of your "dirty/ugly" shutdown.

Macrium has a terminal icon. That might open a Command
Prompt and then you can try

Â*Â*Â*Â* chkdsk /?

Â*Â*Â*Â* chkdsk /F c:

or similar. The installer DVDs also have troubleshooting/repair
function (the button which is the only other thing you can do
besides install). And you can open a Command Prompt from there
and do CHKDSK if you want.

Disk Management isn't completely honest about the layout. There
is a 16MB partition you can't see. It doesn't have a file system
and is likely to be the second boot stage or something.
(MBR first, 16MB second, System reserved third perhaps).
I've not been able (for UEFI installs) to get a description
of what that 16MB partition is for. The 100MB one is ESP
(EFI System Partition. There is a 128MB partition table
(which isn't a partition as such).

You can only CHKDSK C: because it has a drive letter. The
hidden partitions, I sometimes change the partition type
and make them visible, then repair them. But that's a pretty
clumsy way to do it.

If I knew exactly what was wrong (what happened), I'd be able
to hone the suggestions. About all I've got at this point,
is at least the file system was shut down dirty, so it could
use a CHKDSK to tidy up. Then you can try Macrium boot repair
if you want. It's *only* on the emergency boot media. And with
1903, we're getting to the point you almost want to build
emergency boot media using 1903 as the base for it. (Macrium 7
does that, without belaboring the point. With Macrium 7
*do not* leave a multitude of Windows OS drives in the
machine, because the clever software will build a WinPE
from the wrong OS!)

I trust you have some sort of backups at this point. If not,
make a backup first, so you don't lose anything. Macrium has
a "non-smart" backup option, in case the file system is damaged.
One would hope this is similar to "dd" but there's no proof of
that... yet.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Thanks for the input Paul. I don't have Macrium media but have it installed on my newer
machines (and on the laptop - that's how I cloned the HDD to the SSD). I'll make a rescue USB
on the desktop later (the laptop doesn't have an optical drive and my old USB optical died a
while back) and try that but from what you've said I'm not sure how much to expect from it.

That said anything that works would be a bonus at this stage. I've not done command prompt
stuff for years now (decades even) and have forgotten more than I knew already g but will try
it out. UEFI is anathema to me, I know nothing about it and understand even less. I've never
seen the logic in tying a system BIOS / OS to a HDD, that's just another point of failure.

When I try to boot the laptop there was a very brief message on screen before the "Invalid
partition table!" thing so maybe the BIOS can rebuild the UEFI partition if I can get into it
(and if that's what failed)?

Anyway I need to go out for a while now so will tackle it later. I'm annoyed that I don't even
have the 320GB HDD that I cloned onto the SSD anymore. I normally keep them but as it had
worked fine for a year I repurposed it as external storage in a USB enclosure.

I don't have any backups of C drive as it's not my daily driver (and I don't have Acronis
anymore - I might have to look deeper into Macrium, I've only used it to clone a disk so far).
My data is on the 2TB HDD in the laptop and I'll pull that before running any repair attempt.

Thanks again, to be honest I'm quite out of touch with current PC tech. I no longer class
myself as a 'power user'. I haven't built a system for ages now, instead I buy ex-lease Dell
corporate stuff for myself as it's cheaper than building my own machines and they've proven to
be very reliable in the past.

OK, if the partition table is gone, then whatever WinPE media you
can boot (Macrium uses WinPE, a Windows installer DVD uses WinPE),
it's not going to be able to see anything on that disk.

If you can get to Command Prompt

Â*Â*Â* diskpart
Â*Â*Â* list disk
Â*Â*Â* select disk 1
Â*Â*Â* list partition
Â*Â*Â* select partition 1
Â*Â*Â* detail partition
Â*Â*Â* select partition 2
Â*Â*Â* detail partition
Â*Â*Â* ...
Â*Â*Â* exit

That's an example of getting partition info, but
assumes there is a partition table present. If the partition
table is gone, many of those steps will fail.

The program TestDisk can scan a disk. The "Quick Search" and
"Deeper Search", hardly ever seem to get the computed partition
table "just right". And I've used a Hex Editor (like HxD) to
scan manually to understand why. And I've seen multiple (what
look like) NTFS partition sectors. When I see that, it makes
it easier to understand how the scan is stumbling on materials
that would confuse it.

https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step

The odds of that actually straightening out a disk (making
a partition table good enough to "write" to disk), in
2019, are pretty poor. I think I had it do a legacy disk
years ago (a Win2K install that got wiped out by a
Windows install disc). I use the program more for "listing files"
in hidden partitions, than for anything else.

Still, that's about all I know of for free, for that
kind of recovery.

TestDisk is cross platform. It's available as a Linux package
on Linux LiveCDs. It's available as a portable ZIP for Windows.

Â*Â*Â* Paul


I've replied to John McGaw, his suggestion to check the boot priority was the fix I needed. Once
upon a time I'd have checked that myself first but when I swappedÂ* from HDD to the mSATA slot the
laptop just booted, I didn't need to swap the boot order so I figured...

While I was inthe BIOS I noticed a selectable setting to switch between UEFI and 'Legacy BIOS'
and the latter is selected. I don't know if that was re-set by SupportAssist when the boot order
was re-set. Do you think I should leave it as-is?

Also I must make an image of the SSD to the data drive with Macrium and create that boot flash
drive. (I hadn't had a chance to do anything until now as the last couple of days were very busy.)

Thanks a lot for your input, I've copy / pasted it all to my documents and will keep it in case I
ever need it in the future.


I usually steer my machines with "popup boot".

I would not expect the regular boot preference
to be "sane". The boot preference changes when
the disk lineup changes. I don't see enough of
a pattern, to put any trust in outcomes.

The two options should be UEFI+CSM or UEFI. The
first one allows the option of "Legacy BIOS" and
CSM stands for "Compatibility Support Module" to
make that possible. It sounds like you're in
UEFI+CSM mode right now. If it's the case that
nothing you do relies on legacy BIOS setups, then
you could change it. The UEFI+CSM option, in
combination with the popup boot key, gives the
best of both worlds (if you need to do a UEFI
install, you boot your installer DVD in UEFI
mode -- the boot mode helps "select" the install
mode).

I don't understand the rationale of what the Dell
program was messing about with. Yes, you can mess
up the boot order. Yes, you can overwrite the
NVRAM storage of "boot paths" from a number of
places, leading to mayhem. Why would Dell be
doing this ?

Â*Â* Paul


Thanks for that. My guess is that, as the software checks for 'updates' before the hardware check
that it found a BIOS update and installed it, either fully or in part. When I ran it on my desktop
a few hours before this happened it found a BIOS update for that (as well as three driver updates)
but appeared to install it after the hardware check (which took a while as there is an SSD, 3 HDDs
and 32GB of RAM in that machine) and then asked for a re-boot. I'm not sure but that sounds about
right, the dirty shut-down meant it didn't write saved values to the new BIOS. Maybe.

Anyway now I have a Macrium backup and boot USB drive all ready in case anything similar happens. I
did that for both machines. Also I'll run Macrium regularly to save a fresh backup.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #12  
Old June 25th 19, 03:09 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

~misfit~ wrote:
A while back I purchased a Dell Latitude E7440 laptop which came with a
standard HDD fitted. However it has a WWAN / mSATA slot available so I
bought an mSATA drive. I was short of money at the time and couldn't
afford my usual Samsung Evo SSD so bought a Chinese 'KingSpec' SSD.

I cloned the OS and 'system' partitions from the HDD to the SSD and it
worked well, for almost a year now no issues at all, fast and stable. I
left a HDD in the laptop as well for data storage.

Then (after having run it on my Dell desktop to update drivers) I
decided to run Dell SupportAssist on the laptop last night. It ran
driver updates check, said it found updates (but didn't download or
install them, it does that after all of the testing is finished).

Then it went on to hardware testing, got to 70% done after a few minutes
and was testing the 'HDD' for various things ("Funneling" was on screen
last I think?) when the screen went black with the message 'Your
computer has encountered an error and needs to restart". That's never
good..

On restart within about a second the screen shows "Invalid partition
table!" followed by a blinking cursor and nothing further happens. Damn!

I pulled the mSATA SSD and, using an adapter connected it via USB3 to my
desktop (A Dell Optiplex 9020) and I can see both the 100MB system
partition and C: just fine. I was hoping that perhaps I'd be prompted to
'fix' a partition table. I also connected the laptops data driver to the
desktop in case that was the issue (I've moved the default Windows user
data files to that to save space on the SSD) but that is fine too.

So I'm assuming there's an issue with the UEFI / 100MB 'system'
partition that the test caused? (Possibly due to perhaps something
non-compliant with the cheap SSD..) If so is there any way I can fix it
without going through a complete OS install? (Would that even work if
it's a UEFI issue?) It always takes me ages to get the OS and programmes
just how I like them so if the 'system' partition is fixable that would
be awesome.

I know that this may not be strictly a hardware issue (but think it's
likely related to the SSD as SupportAssist has always run fine for me on
machines with Samsung SSDs) but I'm hoping someone here might be able to
help - or maybe point me in the right direction to get help.

Thanks for reading.


This article today, tells us where SupportAssist came from.

It's a rebranded third party tool called "PC-Doctor Toolbox"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...pgrade-windows

In other words, Dell doesn't really "steer" the design intent.
And if I ask the question "why would Dell do that", well,
Dell didn't write the program.

Paul
  #13  
Old June 25th 19, 05:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

On 6/25/2019 10:09 AM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
A while back I purchased a Dell Latitude E7440 laptop which came with a
standard HDD fitted. However it has a WWAN / mSATA slot available so I
bought an mSATA drive. I was short of money at the time and couldn't
afford my usual Samsung Evo SSD so bought a Chinese 'KingSpec' SSD.

I cloned the OS and 'system' partitions from the HDD to the SSD and it
worked well, for almost a year now no issues at all, fast and stable. I
left a HDD in the laptop as well for data storage.

Then (after having run it on my Dell desktop to update drivers) I decided
to run Dell SupportAssist on the laptop last night. It ran driver updates
check, said it found updates (but didn't download or install them, it
does that after all of the testing is finished).

Then it went on to hardware testing, got to 70% done after a few minutes
and was testing the 'HDD' for various things ("Funneling" was on screen
last I think?) when the screen went black with the message 'Your computer
has encountered an error and needs to restart". That's never good..

On restart within about a second the screen shows "Invalid partition
table!" followed by a blinking cursor and nothing further happens. Damn!

I pulled the mSATA SSD and, using an adapter connected it via USB3 to my
desktop (A Dell Optiplex 9020) and I can see both the 100MB system
partition and C: just fine. I was hoping that perhaps I'd be prompted to
'fix' a partition table. I also connected the laptops data driver to the
desktop in case that was the issue (I've moved the default Windows user
data files to that to save space on the SSD) but that is fine too.

So I'm assuming there's an issue with the UEFI / 100MB 'system' partition
that the test caused? (Possibly due to perhaps something non-compliant
with the cheap SSD..) If so is there any way I can fix it without going
through a complete OS install? (Would that even work if it's a UEFI
issue?) It always takes me ages to get the OS and programmes just how I
like them so if the 'system' partition is fixable that would be awesome.

I know that this may not be strictly a hardware issue (but think it's
likely related to the SSD as SupportAssist has always run fine for me on
machines with Samsung SSDs) but I'm hoping someone here might be able to
help - or maybe point me in the right direction to get help.

Thanks for reading.


This article today, tells us where SupportAssist came from.

It's a rebranded third party tool called "PC-Doctor Toolbox"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...pgrade-windows


In other words, Dell doesn't really "steer" the design intent.
And if I ask the question "why would Dell do that", well,
Dell didn't write the program.

Â*Â* Paul


Of course that doesn't eliminate the possibility that they either
customized it or had the creators customize it. I've seen that happen to
various extents with other programs. A big one is Acronis which seems to
have been provided to several different hardware vendors and neutered in
each case so that it will only work with the vendor's products.

I wouldn't put it beyond a computer vendor to give out a fixit program
aimed at naive end users which automatically tries to revert a computer
back to what they see as the "correct" state meaning how it was originally
sold. In OP's case it looked as if something like that happened which was
why I suggested a fix to take that into account.
  #14  
Old June 25th 19, 08:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

John McGaw wrote:


Of course that doesn't eliminate the possibility that they either
customized it or had the creators customize it. I've seen that happen to
various extents with other programs. A big one is Acronis which seems to
have been provided to several different hardware vendors and neutered in
each case so that it will only work with the vendor's products.

I wouldn't put it beyond a computer vendor to give out a fixit program
aimed at naive end users which automatically tries to revert a computer
back to what they see as the "correct" state meaning how it was
originally sold. In OP's case it looked as if something like that
happened which was why I suggested a fix to take that into account.


My concern with software of this type, is how much Dell
staff don't know about what is going on.

This isn't the first time Dell has pushed some third party
crap, where they don't have tight control of the outcome,
and rely on others to do releases and patches.

I don't understand the economics, and why they don't have
their own staff write the cruft. Then they "own" whatever
happens, and cannot make pathetic excuses. The Dell empire
is big enough, I'm sure they have some amount of software
staff already.

Paul
  #15  
Old June 26th 19, 03:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

On 26/06/2019 2:09 AM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
A while back I purchased a Dell Latitude E7440 laptop which came with a standard HDD fitted.
However it has a WWAN / mSATA slot available so I bought an mSATA drive. I was short of money at
the time and couldn't afford my usual Samsung Evo SSD so bought a Chinese 'KingSpec' SSD.

I cloned the OS and 'system' partitions from the HDD to the SSD and it worked well, for almost a
year now no issues at all, fast and stable. I left a HDD in the laptop as well for data storage.

Then (after having run it on my Dell desktop to update drivers) I decided to run Dell
SupportAssist on the laptop last night. It ran driver updates check, said it found updates (but
didn't download or install them, it does that after all of the testing is finished).

Then it went on to hardware testing, got to 70% done after a few minutes and was testing the
'HDD' for various things ("Funneling" was on screen last I think?) when the screen went black
with the message 'Your computer has encountered an error and needs to restart". That's never good..

On restart within about a second the screen shows "Invalid partition table!" followed by a
blinking cursor and nothing further happens. Damn!

I pulled the mSATA SSD and, using an adapter connected it via USB3 to my desktop (A Dell Optiplex
9020) and I can see both the 100MB system partition and C: just fine. I was hoping that perhaps
I'd be prompted to 'fix' a partition table. I also connected the laptops data driver to the
desktop in case that was the issue (I've moved the default Windows user data files to that to
save space on the SSD) but that is fine too.

So I'm assuming there's an issue with the UEFI / 100MB 'system' partition that the test caused?
(Possibly due to perhaps something non-compliant with the cheap SSD..) If so is there any way I
can fix it without going through a complete OS install? (Would that even work if it's a UEFI
issue?) It always takes me ages to get the OS and programmes just how I like them so if the
'system' partition is fixable that would be awesome.

I know that this may not be strictly a hardware issue (but think it's likely related to the SSD
as SupportAssist has always run fine for me on machines with Samsung SSDs) but I'm hoping someone
here might be able to help - or maybe point me in the right direction to get help.

Thanks for reading.


This article today, tells us where SupportAssist came from.

It's a rebranded third party tool called "PC-Doctor Toolbox"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...pgrade-windows


In other words, Dell doesn't really "steer" the design intent.
And if I ask the question "why would Dell do that", well,
Dell didn't write the program.


I haven't read the link yet, I've opened it for reading in a while when I have more time. I seem to
remember PC-Doctor or similar being OEM installed on a Dell laptop from the late 90s that I worked
on. I could be wrong...
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #16  
Old June 26th 19, 05:27 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Dell SupportAssist and KingSpec mSATA SSD

On 26/06/2019 2:12 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
On 26/06/2019 2:09 AM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
A while back I purchased a Dell Latitude E7440 laptop which came with a standard HDD fitted.
However it has a WWAN / mSATA slot available so I bought an mSATA drive. I was short of money at
the time and couldn't afford my usual Samsung Evo SSD so bought a Chinese 'KingSpec' SSD.

I cloned the OS and 'system' partitions from the HDD to the SSD and it worked well, for almost a
year now no issues at all, fast and stable. I left a HDD in the laptop as well for data storage.

Then (after having run it on my Dell desktop to update drivers) I decided to run Dell
SupportAssist on the laptop last night. It ran driver updates check, said it found updates (but
didn't download or install them, it does that after all of the testing is finished).

Then it went on to hardware testing, got to 70% done after a few minutes and was testing the
'HDD' for various things ("Funneling" was on screen last I think?) when the screen went black
with the message 'Your computer has encountered an error and needs to restart". That's never good..

On restart within about a second the screen shows "Invalid partition table!" followed by a
blinking cursor and nothing further happens. Damn!

I pulled the mSATA SSD and, using an adapter connected it via USB3 to my desktop (A Dell
Optiplex 9020) and I can see both the 100MB system partition and C: just fine. I was hoping that
perhaps I'd be prompted to 'fix' a partition table. I also connected the laptops data driver to
the desktop in case that was the issue (I've moved the default Windows user data files to that
to save space on the SSD) but that is fine too.

So I'm assuming there's an issue with the UEFI / 100MB 'system' partition that the test caused?
(Possibly due to perhaps something non-compliant with the cheap SSD..) If so is there any way I
can fix it without going through a complete OS install? (Would that even work if it's a UEFI
issue?) It always takes me ages to get the OS and programmes just how I like them so if the
'system' partition is fixable that would be awesome.

I know that this may not be strictly a hardware issue (but think it's likely related to the SSD
as SupportAssist has always run fine for me on machines with Samsung SSDs) but I'm hoping
someone here might be able to help - or maybe point me in the right direction to get help.

Thanks for reading.


This article today, tells us where SupportAssist came from.

It's a rebranded third party tool called "PC-Doctor Toolbox"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...pgrade-windows


In other words, Dell doesn't really "steer" the design intent.
And if I ask the question "why would Dell do that", well,
Dell didn't write the program.


I haven't read the link yet, I've opened it for reading in a while when I have more time. I seem to
remember PC-Doctor or similar being OEM installed on a Dell laptop from the late 90s that I worked
on. I could be wrong...


Right I've read it now and it's convinced me to not run SupportAssist again - thanks.

Unfortunately my desktop is still under warranty (at least until November) and SupportAssist keeps
track of not just the warranty but the state of the PC in case of claims. (It also collects data on
usage but they pinky-swear it's not linked to my name, IP or and email - two of which I needed to
provide for warranty purposes.)

In fact it defaults to running one a week in the background but I turned that off a while back.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
 




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