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Epson vs Canon



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 25th 04, 07:59 PM
Miss Perspicacia Tick
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Default Epson vs Canon

Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?



  #2  
Old June 26th 04, 02:57 AM
Rob
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"Miss Perspicacia Tick" wrote:

Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?



Yes you are dear.
Surely you wouldn't settle for just glossy when you could have
"glossier"? It's for those who feel absolutes won't do and would like
something stronger. Like Starbucks and the "grande" size which normal
people would call small but "small" sounds so, well, small.
  #3  
Old June 26th 04, 04:05 AM
Bill Mathews
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This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.
"Miss Perspicacia Tick" wrote in message
...
Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which

I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every

review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?





  #4  
Old June 26th 04, 04:24 AM
Lola MacLean
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Default

I believe the gloss optimizer is used in the Epson 2200 because that printer
uses pigment inks, which don't look glossy otherwise. That was a problem for
consumers that wanted glossy prints and the optimizer was offered to solve
it.
Lola MacLean


  #5  
Old June 26th 04, 05:01 AM
bmoag
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Default

If you are happy with what you are getting then there is nothing to worry
about. As noted the Epson pigment printers unaided do not achieve the high
gloss finish that many printers desire so the printer adds a glossy finish.
Canon printers and Canon glossy papers achieve beautiful glossy results. How
concerned to be about archival results for ink-based prints I suppose may be
a real concern if you are selling the prints but chemical based color prints
do not last forever and neither do their owners. Alas I have but ink-based
Canon and Epson printers: all three of us can only expect limited mortality.


  #6  
Old June 26th 04, 05:25 AM
Arthur Entlich
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Default

There is a reason for the gloss optimizer. Epson's R800 uses pigmented
inks. The advantage of pigmented inks, as of right now, is that they
are more permanent and less likely to fade than dye inks. That may
change over the next year or two as new inks and papers hit the market.
The problem with pigments is they tend to dry a bit more matte than most
would like, even on glossy papers. And areas with high ink coverage
even on glossy paper, will show the ink as flat. It looks even worse if
you look at the image at an angle, with light reflecting on it. The
gloss optimizer coats the ink areas to make them as glossy as the areas
that are not covered in ink. The two blacks are because for matte
papers, a denser black is needed and it is usually very matte. Using a
second black which is more glossy, but less dense, works better on
glossy papers.

What the best ink color combinations are to give highest accuracy is
often in debate, and it does depend upon the type of inks (dye versus
pigment) and the type of color management and drivers used. With
pigmented inks, particularly, since they are not fully transparent,
mixing certain ink colors may not provide the purity of color that a dye
ink might. Mixing yellow and magenta pigmented inks may not make as
pure a red as a pure red pigment. Same with blue, which is normally
made from cyan and magenta inks.

In the case of dye inks, getting a good range of greens, especially
deeper forest greens, which require cyan, magenta, yellow and black in
varying amounts are tricky to get, so some manufacturers use green.
Some commercial ink sets add orange.

At the end, what colors are in the set is not really important to the
end user. It's sausage making. What you should care about is how good
the output looks, what variety of papers work with the inks, how much it
costs per print, how fast the printer is, how reliable the printer is,
and, if it matters to you, how long the print is likely to last.

Art




Rob wrote:

"Miss Perspicacia Tick" wrote:


Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?




Yes you are dear.
Surely you wouldn't settle for just glossy when you could have
"glossier"? It's for those who feel absolutes won't do and would like
something stronger. Like Starbucks and the "grande" size which normal
people would call small but "small" sounds so, well, small.


  #7  
Old June 27th 04, 02:52 AM
Hecate
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Default

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 20:24:08 -0700, "Lola MacLean"
wrote:

I believe the gloss optimizer is used in the Epson 2200 because that printer
uses pigment inks, which don't look glossy otherwise. That was a problem for
consumers that wanted glossy prints and the optimizer was offered to solve
it.
Lola MacLean

There is no gloss optimiser for the 2100/2200, only the R800.

--

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui
  #8  
Old June 27th 04, 10:20 AM
Al
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Default

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:05:58 -0600, "Bill Mathews"
wrote:

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.



This always causes me to have doubts about my Canon printer.

It seems as though Canon is mostly concerned with droplet size and
Epson has bigger droplets but more permanant ink.

I would like to see a visual demonstration of what really happens when
the prints get wet, as Epson describes on their radio ads.
  #9  
Old June 28th 04, 09:50 AM
FredBillie
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Default

From: (Al)
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 2004 4:20 AM
Message-id:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:05:58 -0600, "Bill Mathews"
wrote:

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.



This always causes me to have doubts about my Canon printer.

It seems as though Canon is mostly concerned with droplet size and
Epson has bigger droplets but more permanant ink.

I would like to see a visual demonstration of what really happens when
the prints get wet, as Epson describes on their radio ads.
BRBR

I have a Canon S900 which prints great pictures. I used to have an Epson but
switched mainly because of speed concerns. I don't know about wet prints from
the larger Pigment ink Epson models but I can tell you that those from my new
Epson 4X6 PictureMate, seem to be impervious to moisture Test I made:

print picture. Immediately place under running water and rub with finger while
doing so. Nothing happened except that the paper, being wet, curled a little
when it dried. Very impressive indeed. Same results were obtained from someone
doing an online review of this printer. That is why I tried it also to see if
the reviewer was nuts.
  #10  
Old June 28th 04, 01:40 PM
Colonel Blip
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Default

Test I made: print picture. Immediately place under running water and rub
with finger while doing so. Nothing happened except that the paper, being
wet, curled a little

Interesting. FWIW, I use a Canon i950 and have performed the same test using
both Red River and Office Depot papers and have gotten the same results.



"FredBillie" wrote in message

From: (Al)
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 2004 4:20 AM
Message-id:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:05:58 -0600, "Bill Mathews"
wrote:

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference
between the Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major
difference between Canon and Epson is that the latter has some
models that produce excellent results printing photos using
archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200. Canon has
nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.



This always causes me to have doubts about my Canon printer.

It seems as though Canon is mostly concerned with droplet size and
Epson has bigger droplets but more permanant ink.

I would like to see a visual demonstration of what really happens
when
the prints get wet, as Epson describes on their radio ads.
BRBR

I have a Canon S900 which prints great pictures. I used to have an
Epson but switched mainly because of speed concerns. I don't know
about wet prints from the larger Pigment ink Epson models but I can
tell you that those from my new Epson 4X6 PictureMate, seem to be
impervious to moisture Test I made:

print picture. Immediately place under running water and rub with
finger while doing so. Nothing happened except that the paper, being
wet, curled a little when it dried. Very impressive indeed. Same
results were obtained from someone doing an online review of this
printer. That is why I tried it also to see if the reviewer was nuts.


--
Colonel Blip

Remove "nospam" when replying.
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