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#11
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Arthur, you have intrigued me. There you are in Canada, but you're
talking about American laws, providing links to them, etc. ???????? Richard |
#12
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Arthur Entlich wrote in news:aJOCi.120973
$rX4.16160@pd7urf2no: Perhaps the answer is for someone to come up with a competitive model and try to educate people to pay more for the printers so that the ink doesn't end up the only profit engine. I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables. |
#13
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
"Barry Watzman" wrote in message
... | "If we want our rights as consumers to be protected ...." | | The manufacturers do have some rights also. I understand not liking it, | it makes things more expensive for us as consumers. But the | manufacturers did put in huge up-front engineering effort to invent | these things, and the did get patents on their products. | | | Arthur Entlich wrote: | I replied to this posting as though it was legitimate. It may not be, | but the problem does exist. Manufacturers of inkjet printers are | winning injunctions against many 3rd party suppliers, and I have read of | several just last week with Epson products from legitimate sources. | | The mechanisms are the same regardless of the veracity of this | particular posting below, the availability will suffer as more and more | 3rd party manufacturers are loaded with fines and other injunctions | which make the cost of continuing not worthwhile. | | If we want our rights as consumers to be protected, so we can purchase | 3rd party cartridges or ink and fill our printers with them, we need to | get the countries which have such legislation to start looking carefully | at the Court decisions coming down and their validity. | | | Art snip Most of these are design patents that are very limited in scope. While design patents have a place the use in this instance is strictly to restrict competition. With regard to the USA the current political mine set is such that we will play h*ll securing any consumer protection. Recall the fight over the pending FCC spectrum auction and the net neutrality? |
#14
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Hi Richard,
It is just easier to provide US law for a number of reasons. 1) Easier to find them on line. 2) much of Canadian case law is based upon US laws that have become a standard within industrialized countries. For instance, most of our copyright and patent law has been adopted under conventions with the major industrialized countries and most of that was written under US law first. Being major trading partners, and having an elephant in our bed means we often have to accommodate US regulation, so Canada has adopted much of their law when it comes to trade and international issues. 3) Litigation is a US past time, and there is 10 times the population there as in Canada, so there is bound to be much more documentation available from the US on these issues, and many more test cases. 4) I suspect that more people on this newsgroup are living in the US than probably the total of all other countries combined, and if not, they still represent the majority here, especially as an english language group. I am not suggesting anyone ignore all the other people from other locations, and that is why I made the comments that people from other areas should also make their voices heard in their locales. I hope I'm less intriguing now ;-) Art Richard Steinfeld wrote: Arthur, you have intrigued me. There you are in Canada, but you're talking about American laws, providing links to them, etc. ???????? Richard |
#15
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about
reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel about it). It might be interesting for a company/retailer to offer some type of consumable contract, where you would buy the hardware which came with a one or more year consumable contract for a flat fee (depending upon the item) and that would allow the person to buy consumables at a steep discount. The only problem would be people abusing it by buying one contract and using it to supply consumables for many machines which they didn't buy the contract for. However, that is almost beginning to sound like a lease program as some companies like Xerox has offered on their high end copiers... Art Gary Tait wrote: Arthur Entlich wrote in news:aJOCi.120973 $rX4.16160@pd7urf2no: Perhaps the answer is for someone to come up with a competitive model and try to educate people to pay more for the printers so that the ink doesn't end up the only profit engine. I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables. |
#16
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
Arthur Entlich wrote:
Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel about it). I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with incompatible cartridges. Anyone know? What kind of marketing has Kodak used already? Who sells their printers? But in this case, these are Kodak's own machines (or made for them) that are designed for their own ink formula. I wonder if Kodak has been experiencing resistance from the retailers, or de-facto threats of retaliation by the big boys in the field -- the type of thing that has happened in the supermarket business, where manufacturers actually have to pay the store for shelf space (!!!!), and Ben and Jerry's was locked out by other ice cream companies, causing a lawsuit that they won. I know of one example, far in the past, in which Kodak was defeated because they didn't have the right distribution chain. The product was recording tape -- the best that I have ever used. But camera stores aren't exactly the best place for people to buy recording tape, and that's where it was offered. How are they getting their printers on the shelf now? Richard |
#17
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
On Sep 3, 5:19 pm, Arthur Entlich wrote:
Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel about it). I wasn't too excited about the prices of Kodak consumables. The last time I looked at their prices they were on par with bci-3e/bci-6 canon in terms of cost per page. Don't get me wrong, the printer prices were reasonable and the consumable price was also reasonable. |
#18
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message news:fw1Di.125315$rX4.7991@pd7urf2no... | Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about | reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the | business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and | lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't | seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel | about it). | | It might be interesting for a company/retailer to offer some type of | consumable contract, where you would buy the hardware which came with a | one or more year consumable contract for a flat fee (depending upon the | item) and that would allow the person to buy consumables at a steep | discount. The only problem would be people abusing it by buying one | contract and using it to supply consumables for many machines which they | didn't buy the contract for. | | However, that is almost beginning to sound like a lease program as some | companies like Xerox has offered on their high end copiers... Much of Xerox's lease business model was based on patents. When the patents expired the lease model went away as a viable option for Xerox. |
#19
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
On Sep 3, 6:18 pm, Richard Steinfeld
wrote: I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with incompatible cartridges. Anyone know? What kind of marketing has Kodak used already? Who sells their printers? But in this case, these are Kodak's own machines (or made for them) that are designed for their own ink formula. Kodak has a few "easyshare" printers. OfficeDepot offers the 5300 and the 5500. IIRC they use a $10 cartridge which offers 400p @ 5% yield. 2.5c/page is decent, not ground breaking, but acceptable. The lowest model in the chain for an aio is the 5100, which is a decent deal at $150. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...equestid=12167 Needless to say bestbuy offers them as well. To be honest I have yet to see one in action. based on what i'm reading, they are using pigment based inks. That at least would make life interesting for epson. To be honest I was presuming they were dye based. The biggest "boom" they seem to be offering is AIO models sub $200 with small cheapish cartridges. I can't say they are moving into the market slowly/carefully, they sort of hit the market head on. I heard about them from the local radio and posts here. |
#20
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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply
NotMe wrote: "Barry Watzman" wrote in message ... | "If we want our rights as consumers to be protected ...." | | The manufacturers do have some rights also. I understand not liking it, | it makes things more expensive for us as consumers. But the | manufacturers did put in huge up-front engineering effort to invent | these things, and the did get patents on their products. | | | Arthur Entlich wrote: | I replied to this posting as though it was legitimate. It may not be, | but the problem does exist. Manufacturers of inkjet printers are | winning injunctions against many 3rd party suppliers, and I have read of | several just last week with Epson products from legitimate sources. | | The mechanisms are the same regardless of the veracity of this | particular posting below, the availability will suffer as more and more | 3rd party manufacturers are loaded with fines and other injunctions | which make the cost of continuing not worthwhile. | | If we want our rights as consumers to be protected, so we can purchase | 3rd party cartridges or ink and fill our printers with them, we need to | get the countries which have such legislation to start looking carefully | at the Court decisions coming down and their validity. | | | Art snip Most of these are design patents that are very limited in scope. While design patents have a place the use in this instance is strictly to restrict competition. There is no substantial competition making a quality product. They are protecting themselves from spending money on warranty service that is not justified and having a fly by night damaging their reputatuon. With regard to the USA the current political mine set is such that we will play h*ll securing any consumer protection. Recall the fight over the pending FCC spectrum auction and the net neutrality? |
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