Which graphic card?

Christopher put me in my place by writing

snipped due to excessive size of my reply- sorry

Did you try Toms Hardware Guide for the reviews? I read their reviews and
advice religiously, and have yet to be steered wrong.
Here are a couple of quotes from the reviews. I know, I know, it's alot of
reading for a reply post, by I think it's worth looking at a couple of
them.

ATI:

"And now, once again, we've come to the point where another upgrade is in
sight. The memory size is to be doubled - from 128 MB to 256 MB. On paper,
this looks impressive, but it's really not. You have to look extremely
carefully to find situations where 256 MB brings advantages. What the old
rule dictates is true: in games of the future, you're sure to need this at
some point, but when that point will come is written in the stars. Even in
our tests with the long-awaited Doom III with high quality settings
(see...), the Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB didn't show any advantages over the
128 MB variant."

"It's not that easy to find differences in performance compared to the 128-
MB version. Only when the detail tests are run at extremely high
resolutions do a few benchmarks show some differences."

"The benchmark results of the new Radeon 9800 Pro with 256 MB are sobering
when compared to those of the 128-MB variant. It's only in extreme
situations (in the highest resolutions and high FSAA settings) that any
difference could be seen. In these areas, however, the frame rates are at a
low level, which is therefore not realistic and certainly not worth the
extra $100."

NVIDIA

"...this is not a completely new design, but a lot of details have been
changed and improved. For example, the memory bus has been widened from 128
to 256 bits, and the design no longer calls for DDR-II memory but uses
conventional DDR modules instead. The chip's core speed has been reduced
from 500 MHz to 450 MHz to increase production yield. Many gamers and
definitely all hardware testers will be relieved to know that the new
cooling solution sounds a lot less like a vacuum cleaner and operates at a
much more bearable volume."

" Now, the FX 5900 is able to outpace the Radeon 9800 PRO in all relevant
benchmarks and can reclaim the performance throne for NVIDIA. The card
offers unrivaled FSAA speed combined with very good anisotropic filtering
image quality and performance, thanks to the new Detonator FX driver,
giving it a comfortable lead over its rival. Only the quality of its
ordered-grid FSAA implementation remains inferior to that of ATi's card, a
disadvantage it can more than make up for in sheer speed."

"That isn't to say that the FX 5900 Ultra doesn't also have some drawbacks
compared to the Radeon 9800 PRO. The NVIDIA design calls for a much larger
board , which can lead to problems in certain smaller computer cases and on
some mainboards. Even though the cooler has been redesigned, it still
blocks the first PCI slot next to the AGP connector. And lastly, it is
still by far the louder of the two cards. "

"Thanks to the numerous tweaks, improvements and refinements, the card is
finally able to beat the Radeon 9800 PRO. Power users and enthusiasts will
have a hard time finding a better alternative. We were also pleased to hear
that NVIDIA will offer value versions of the FX 5900 as well."

These are direct quotes right from THG, go and look up some more info if
you like.

I guess after reading the reviews, I would jump on with the NVIDIA card,
unless noise is a major issue to you (it isn't to me). I haven't looked at
the prices (retail) of either of these monsters yet, but it depends on who
the partner was that made the board. I don't believe NVIDIA makes there own
boards and retails them, but ATI does and that could cost you a bit more,
plus I have found that when you buy a cheap ATI board (powercolor for
example) it is REALLY cheap, and you get what you pay for. I may be wrong
though. I have found for the most part, NVIDIA cards to be a touch cheaper
(that may be wrong where you are) and I go for them for the performance,
and price. I like to use the ASUS or MSI cards with the NVIDIA chipsets.

Hope this helped you out a bit.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... puhhllleeeeaaasssse gimme the ball!

While one card isn't the best for everything, I personally like the ATI
Radeon 9800 Pro. Very well made card (at least from ATI it is), solid GPU
and the drivers are rock solid. And, it only takes one slot on your
motherboard. :-) The GeForce I believe, uses the AGP slot, but hogs the
PCI1 slot due to its width.

~ Adrian ~

---
"The power of accurate observation is frequently
called cynicism by those who don't have it."
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:40:38 -0000, Wheat Muncher pondered exceedingly, then
took quill in hand and carefully composed...

| Did you try Toms Hardware Guide for the reviews? I read their reviews and
| advice religiously, and have yet to be steered wrong.
| Here are a couple of quotes from the reviews. I know, I know, it's alot of
| reading for a reply post, by I think it's worth looking at a couple of
| them.

[snip]

| I guess after reading the reviews, I would jump on with the NVIDIA card,
| unless noise is a major issue to you (it isn't to me). I haven't looked at
| the prices (retail) of either of these monsters yet, but it depends on who
| the partner was that made the board. I don't believe NVIDIA makes there own
| boards and retails them, but ATI does and that could cost you a bit more,
| plus I have found that when you buy a cheap ATI board (powercolor for
| example) it is REALLY cheap, and you get what you pay for. I may be wrong
| though. I have found for the most part, NVIDIA cards to be a touch cheaper
| (that may be wrong where you are) and I go for them for the performance,
| and price. I like to use the ASUS or MSI cards with the NVIDIA chipsets.

Prices are in the $485 area for either 256MB card from Newegg. The 128MB ATI is
about $100 less.

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§

Larc put me in my place by writing



Prices are in the $485 area for either 256MB card from Newegg. The
128MB ATI is about $100 less.

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§


Thanks for the input.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... puhhllleeeeaaasssse gimme the ball!

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:40:38 -0000, Wheat Muncher
wrote:

Christopher put me in my place by writing

snipped due to excessive size of my reply- sorry

Did you try Toms Hardware Guide for the reviews?

Yep, always do, as its always nice to have someone do the donkey work
of analysis and comparison.

snip

I guess after reading the reviews, I would jump on with the NVIDIA card,
unless noise is a major issue to you (it isn't to me). I haven't looked at
the prices (retail) of either of these monsters yet, but it depends on who
the partner was that made the board. I don't believe NVIDIA makes there own
boards and retails them, but ATI does and that could cost you a bit more,
plus I have found that when you buy a cheap ATI board (powercolor for
example) it is REALLY cheap, and you get what you pay for. I may be wrong
though. I have found for the most part, NVIDIA cards to be a touch cheaper
(that may be wrong where you are) and I go for them for the performance,
and price. I like to use the ASUS or MSI cards with the NVIDIA chipsets.

Hope this helped you out a bit.

Yes, thats one for the NVIDIA card.


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot

Christopher put me in my place by writing

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:59:32 GMT, "Adrian" wrote:

While one card isn't the best for everything, I personally like the
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. Very well made card (at least from ATI it is),
solid GPU and the drivers are rock solid. And, it only takes one slot
on your motherboard. :-) The GeForce I believe, uses the AGP slot,
but hogs the PCI1 slot due to its width.

Cool, thats one for the ATI card. I guess the next post reply will
clinch it.

Personally Im slanting toveards the NVIDIA, as its more of a games
card then the ATI, plus I only have a graphic card with my system
expansion slots as the Asus motherboard have the 6 channel chips built
into the board, and blocking the PCI slot isn't a problem.



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot


Well, if you want one more (hate to seem like I am lingering on this) I have
personally had alot of problems with the ATI cards overheating in the systems I
build. 9700 were so far the worst, and I am not sure that the 9800 would be much
better. I have used all sorts of different thermal solutions, but after adding
so many fans, the noise is just as bad as if I had put an NVIDIA in to begin
with. Throw those into an AMD system which runs hot from the word get-go, and it
could be a major headache. When they said in the review that the memory chips go
from hot to sizzling, they weren't kidding. Not saying it's a bad card,I just
like things nice and cool inside.
Wait for another post to see what it says. It may change your mind.
BTW you are right, the NVIDIA drivers are a touch more stable when it gets right
down to the dirty work, so it may be the clincher if you are a gamer (like me).

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... puhhllleeeeaaasssse gimme the ball!

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:49:08 -0000, Wheat Muncher
wrote:

Christopher put me in my place by writing

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:59:32 GMT, "Adrian" wrote:

While one card isn't the best for everything, I personally like the
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. Very well made card (at least from ATI it is),
solid GPU and the drivers are rock solid. And, it only takes one slot
on your motherboard. :-) The GeForce I believe, uses the AGP slot,
but hogs the PCI1 slot due to its width.

Cool, thats one for the ATI card. I guess the next post reply will
clinch it.

Personally Im slanting toveards the NVIDIA, as its more of a games
card then the ATI, plus I only have a graphic card with my system
expansion slots as the Asus motherboard have the 6 channel chips built
into the board, and blocking the PCI slot isn't a problem.



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot


Well, if you want one more (hate to seem like I am lingering on this) I have
personally had alot of problems with the ATI cards overheating in the systems I
build. 9700 were so far the worst,

Yep the 9700 was a bit of a dog, and ATI are having to live it down.

and I am not sure that the 9800 would be much
better. I have used all sorts of different thermal solutions, but after adding
so many fans, the noise is just as bad as if I had put an NVIDIA in to begin
with. Throw those into an AMD system which runs hot from the word get-go, and it
could be a major headache. When they said in the review that the memory chips go
from hot to sizzling, they weren't kidding. Not saying it's a bad card,I just
like things nice and cool inside.

Me to. FWIW Zalman CNPS 6500 CPU cooler is good, and for case fan
quiteness Papst are the dogs ******** http://www.papst.de/ 23 db, my
brother has 3 for his case and its so quite.

If you want a quality case Lian Li are also the dogs ********, they
are pricy as they are made of aluminium, but are well made and have a
quality feel. http://www.lianli.com/ Plus if your British and not a
yank or a Canadian but I suppose they export as well then
http://www.chillblast.com is the place to shop for parts if you want
quality.

Wait for another post to see what it says. It may change your mind.
BTW you are right, the NVIDIA drivers are a touch more stable when it gets right
down to the dirty work, so it may be the clincher if you are a gamer (like me).

Riight will do, I'll give till the end of the week-Sunday-that'll give
people here plenty of time.

Thanks for the info.



Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:59:02 GMT, "Adrian" wrote:

Cool, thats one for the ATI card. I guess the next post reply will
clinch it.

Also bear in mind, the ATI has consistently been praised for its 2D clarity
and sharpness. In other words, in plain Windows, the picture is razor
sharp. I don't know about current GeForce cards, but the GeForce always
loses out to the ATI in 2D sharpness.

Personally Im slanting toveards the NVIDIA, as its more of a games
card then the ATI, plus I only have a graphic card with my system
expansion slots as the Asus motherboard have the 6 channel chips built
into the board, and blocking the PCI slot isn't a problem.

Oh I see. Well, either way. As I said, I personally would recommend the
ATI. It's a great all-around card. A very good package.

Thanks for that, but as Wheat Muncher said the ATI is noisy, and like
him a noisy PC drives me nuts.


Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot

-
Christopher stood up, at show-n-tell, and said:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:13:49 GMT, Larc wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:40:38 -0000, Wheat Muncher pondered
exceedingly, then took quill in hand and carefully composed...

Did you try Toms Hardware Guide for the reviews? I read their
reviews and advice religiously, and have yet to be steered wrong.
Here are a couple of quotes from the reviews. I know, I know, it's
alot of reading for a reply post, by I think it's worth looking at
a couple of them.

[snip]

I guess after reading the reviews, I would jump on with the NVIDIA
card, unless noise is a major issue to you (it isn't to me). I
haven't looked at the prices (retail) of either of these monsters
yet, but it depends on who the partner was that made the board. I
don't believe NVIDIA makes there own boards and retails them, but
ATI does and that could cost you a bit more, plus I have found
that when you buy a cheap ATI board (powercolor for example) it is
REALLY cheap, and you get what you pay for. I may be wrong though.
I have found for the most part, NVIDIA cards to be a touch cheaper
(that may be wrong where you are) and I go for them for the
performance, and price. I like to use the ASUS or MSI cards with
the NVIDIA chipsets.

Prices are in the $485 area for either 256MB card from Newegg. The
128MB ATI is about $100 less.

True, but for future proof stuff for best part 2 years, they are worth
the extra.

I'll take that as a sat-on-the-fence reply.



How about this reply? Don't even waste your breath, on a 256MB card?
Show me one application that will even need that much. You just saved
yourself $200. Next point. ATI will run everything with FSAA (read
QUALITY) enabled, and still smack nVidia's latest and greatest. Your
choice. Used to be that nVidia boards were better bang/buck. Not so,
today. I'm speaking as a long-time nVidia user. Mayhap, a year from now,
the tables will be turned. Would not be surprised. However, if you want
the best gaming solution 'now', leave nVidia out of your plans. Unless,
of course, all you care about is FPS. Then, by all means, shuck out $200+
for a card that gets stomped by an ATI that has FSAA enabled (4x).
Again, it's your money. You might try doing some google-ing on the
subject. Most opinions, here, are very subjective. And, everyone has a
right to theirs. My dollars are going to ATI, this year.






Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Only those who risk going too far,
can know how far they can go."
T.S. Elliot

--
Strontium

"Shortcuts are self-defeating. Mean. If you cannot do it,
clean, you'll never reach your reward..." - 311

Strontium put me in my place by writing


Most opinions, here, are very subjective.
And, everyone has a right to theirs. My dollars are going to ATI,
this year.


You know, Strontium has a good point. It's like the Classic Car wars all
over again.