Does my UPS work?

I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?

On 08/21/2015 07:09 AM, micky wrote:
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

Sometimes the switchover or charging circuitry fails. The last time I
replaced my home UPS the battery was good but it wouldn't switch over.
We have a lot of UPS's at work and the failure rate is fairly high. That
goes for APC or no-name units.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

Plug a radio into one of the protect outlets. Pull the plug on the UPS.
Is the radio still functioning? The 60w bulb is also a good idea since
that will allow you to see how long the battery will maintain the
output. One failure mode I've seen several times is on switchover the
UPS will effectively short the output crashing the computer while one
just plugged into the wall survives the very brief flicker fine.

As far as the control connection to the computer, good luck. Find the
appropriate software for the machine and your OS like PowerChute.

"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

On 8/21/2015 8:50 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"micky" wrote in message
...
Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.


The UPS may be like some of the battery powered drills. You can buy a new
drill with two batteries for what just one or two of the batteries cost.

I have not looked at the cost to make the batteries, but there must be a big
mark up on them when they sell for over $ 50 each,but you can get two, a
charger and new drill for the price of less than two seperate batteries.

Where I worked we had a lot of small motors (around 1/2 HP) that had a gear
box on them. We could get the motor and gear box cheaper than just the
motor.





Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.

On 8/21/2015 10:15 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:


Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

They take either a single battery or a pair and I have no problem
picking up batteries through various internet sites, Ebay or Amazon.com
for WAY less than half the price of APC replacement batteries. I get
~3yrs service out of those "compatible" batteries. Who cares if they
may not (and I have no evidence of this) last as long as a "genuine" APC
replacement? Even if they last half as long, I'm still money ahead.


I just replaced the batteries in one unit. If you buy the genuine
battery from APC is comes with the wiring harness attached and you pull
out the two batteries as a unit and slide the new one in. Cost is $110.

I found a place that sells replacements. I had to take the harness off
(four spade connections) and put it on the new batteries. I also taped
the two together to be a solid unit too. Cost was $37. plus half a
penny for tape and five minutes to do the connections.

This is where I bought, but there are many other sources.
www.batterysharks.com/

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?


Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all. I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?



The XS900 is a "loser".

Put it back on the curb.

Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-900VA-Back...ustomerReviews

An internal fan with no vent ?
I hope not. Maybe the thing is
ferroresonant and the noise is the
transformer.

The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could
be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
with the power at all times, one way or another.

*******

And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the
mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.
The price on batteries has come down slightly over
the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
account, the price has come down.

One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
can last longer, if you take care of it.

I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the
utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
computer manually.

*******

The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
shows it just doesn't last with time.

There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
There are SPS (standby power supply). There
are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
are more than five different types. The SPS remains
cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
run when AC power is available. The battery charges
to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
period and verify the terminal voltage is
correct). That's one check I could do after installing
the new battery.

The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
to be wanting.

And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
the utility is doing to you.

*******

For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
complain of weird symptoms within the first year
or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
use of time or money.

Have fun,
Paul

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:02:08
-0400, Art Todesco wrote:

On 8/21/2015 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
I have 2 UPSes, both used, and one was marked Working when I bought it
for $7, and the other I might have gotten for free. I can't remember.

Batteries are not cheap of course. A couple webpages gave me the
impression that some people just buy a new UPS instead of replacing the
battery. That's not a sound plan financially, is it???? Surely a UPS
should outlive several batteries, unless there's a lightning strike.

The second question is, I've read the instructions but still not sure if
the second one works. The instructions are short and don't address my
issue

APC XS 900 .

Does there have to be a load for the Online light to go on? It's off.

A 60 watt lightbulb is as good a load as any, right?

OTOH, the Building Wiring Fault light is on, probably because somewhere
I lost the ground connection, but It's only plugged in for testing. Do
I have to plug it in somewhere with a ground to get the Online light to
go on?


Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all.

What a system!

The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
but this is the answer I was looking for.

Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
happening to me.

Somewhere I have some worn-out 12-volt batteries but since they're
buried, now is just the time to do what you say, because I'm going out
soon to buy 12 volt batteries for the other two (There's another small
one that I didn't mention.)

Now would also be the time to order by mail, since I need 2, maybe 3,
and I would save on shipping, but these things fit so tightly, and the
dimensions listed for the NP7-12, for example, one dimension was smaller
than my old battery but another was bigger than it and wouldnt' fit in
the UPS. Better to buy in person in this case. I'll take both
batteries and one UPS with me.

Even the dimensions given on the APC page for the specific UPS were like
that, one maximum dimension bigger than my battery, but one smaller.
Neither of which makes sense since my battery exactly fits the space. In
fact in two of the three cases, it's an APC battery (maybe the original
one?) Hard to believe they would get their own dimensions wrong.

I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:15:32 -0400, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

Most UPS replacement batteries are more or less standard. APC favors
12v 7.5amp for most of their low end residential/commercial UPS units.

From the upsc command on my system ...
battery.type: PbAc
battery.voltage: 27.2
battery.voltage.nominal: 24.0
device.mfr: American Power Conversion
device.model: Back-UPS XS 1300G

I have no idea what to look for, when it's time to replace the battery.
Not sure where I put the manual, and am having trouble finding one
online.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

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