Dye vs Pigment

Found this on the www.marrut.com site. Thought it might be of interest.

What I find interesting about it is the fact that this is a company that is
for the serious photograper and supplies only Lyson ink which is nearly (but
not all) pigment based.

http://www.marrutt.com/digital-ink-myths-2.php#f

--
Patrick

Patrick wrote:

Found this on the www.marrut.com site. Thought it might be of interest.

What I find interesting about it is the fact that this is a company that is
for the serious photograper and supplies only Lyson ink which is nearly (but
not all) pigment based.

http://www.marrutt.com/digital-ink-myths-2.php#f

--
Patrick


When you read it, bear in mind these facts:

Epson make pigment and dye inkjet printers. They clearly differentiate
which is for general purpose/office, and "serious photographic" use.

The current pigment/ink debate is not based on "colour quality".
Vibrancy vs tonal range perhaps, but Lyson's argument specifically
implies that vibrancy = quality.

The current newest technology (and best?) pigment inks (for the
R800/1800) are conspicuously absent from Lyson's range.

Making dye ink is easy. Making pigment ink is not easy.

The primary objective of a company is to make a profit.

I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."

Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head clogs.

Many people like their ink sets, but they are competing with OEM and
other ink sources, and there are, IMHO, a number of misleading, if not
self-serving comments made in that article.

Art



Patrick wrote:

Found this on the www.marrut.com site. Thought it might be of interest.

What I find interesting about it is the fact that this is a company that is
for the serious photograper and supplies only Lyson ink which is nearly (but
not all) pigment based.

http://www.marrutt.com/digital-ink-myths-2.php#f

--
Patrick

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...
I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."

I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html

Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head clogs.

Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd
f

--
Patrick

No, it seems to depend on what ink set and what paper is used:

IRIS PRINTERS

Using Iris Graphics Equipoise Ink Set:
Arches Cold Press 32-36 years
Somerset Velvet Paper 20-24 years
Iris Canvas 16-18 years
Arches for Iris paper 13-15 years
Liege Inkjet Fine Art Paper 2-3 years

Using Iris Graphics Industrial Design (ID) Ink Set
Arches Cold Press Paper 2-3 years (tentative)

Using Iris Equipoise Black Ink (Only) in Monochrome Prints
Arches Cold Press Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Somerset Velvet Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Arches for Iris Prints (test continuing) 80 years
Iris Canvas (test continuing) 80 years

Lyson has changed their inks so many times, that at one point they had
to list the colors by which generation that were on.

There more recent inksets may indeed have finally stabilized.

Art

Patrick wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...

I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."


I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html


Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head clogs.


Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd
f

--
Patrick

Lyson is a mfg. And they sell under their own name in various places.
That is good.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

No, it seems to depend on what ink set and what paper is used:

IRIS PRINTERS

Using Iris Graphics Equipoise Ink Set:
Arches Cold Press 32-36 years
Somerset Velvet Paper 20-24 years
Iris Canvas 16-18 years
Arches for Iris paper 13-15 years
Liege Inkjet Fine Art Paper 2-3 years

Using Iris Graphics Industrial Design (ID) Ink Set
Arches Cold Press Paper 2-3 years (tentative)

Using Iris Equipoise Black Ink (Only) in Monochrome Prints
Arches Cold Press Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Somerset Velvet Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Arches for Iris Prints (test continuing) 80 years
Iris Canvas (test continuing) 80 years

Lyson has changed their inks so many times, that at one point they had
to list the colors by which generation that were on.

There more recent inksets may indeed have finally stabilized.

Art

Patrick wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...

I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."



I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html


Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and
withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head
clogs.



Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd

f

--
Patrick

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:1moke.1454304$Xk.884123@pd7tw3no...
No, it seems to depend on what ink set and what paper is used:

The original article stated that Iris printers are dye based and are used
for producing hight quality art prints with longevity. I don't see why you
took issue with this?


IRIS PRINTERS

Using Iris Graphics Equipoise Ink Set:
Arches Cold Press 32-36 years
Somerset Velvet Paper 20-24 years
Iris Canvas 16-18 years
Arches for Iris paper 13-15 years
Liege Inkjet Fine Art Paper 2-3 years

Using Iris Graphics Industrial Design (ID) Ink Set
Arches Cold Press Paper 2-3 years (tentative)

Using Iris Equipoise Black Ink (Only) in Monochrome Prints
Arches Cold Press Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Somerset Velvet Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Arches for Iris Prints (test continuing) 80 years
Iris Canvas (test continuing) 80 years

Lyson has changed their inks so many times, that at one point they had
to list the colors by which generation that were on.

There more recent inksets may indeed have finally stabilized.

The pdf from Wilhem-research that includes Lyson ink is dated June 2000. In
inkjet terms - is this classed as recent?

Art, I read your posts here with interest and respect. My original post was
not to start a flame but to perhaps suggest that dye ink can have longevity
and pigment can be as vivid, and perhap these two arguments should not be
stated as gospel and instead should be qualified. Further evidense of this
might be the fact that Canon-USA have endorsed the Wilhem-research.

--
Patrick

Art

Patrick wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...

I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."


I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html


Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head
clogs.


Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd
f

--
Patrick

"measekite" wrote in message
. ..
Lyson is a mfg. And they sell under their own name in various places.
That is good.

The lord Measekite has spoken - From Genesis after the 7th day of creation,
"Lyson is a mfg..." and ...That is good." How many gallons of Lyson ink has
he used to be able to give any kind of judgement as to its quality. I'm
glad to hear testimonials from actual users of the product, but spare me the
subjective, biased judgements of a non-user who demeans people who have
actual knowledge of these materials.


Arthur Entlich wrote:

No, it seems to depend on what ink set and what paper is used:

IRIS PRINTERS

Using Iris Graphics Equipoise Ink Set:
Arches Cold Press 32-36 years
Somerset Velvet Paper 20-24 years
Iris Canvas 16-18 years
Arches for Iris paper 13-15 years
Liege Inkjet Fine Art Paper 2-3 years

Using Iris Graphics Industrial Design (ID) Ink Set
Arches Cold Press Paper 2-3 years (tentative)

Using Iris Equipoise Black Ink (Only) in Monochrome Prints
Arches Cold Press Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Somerset Velvet Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Arches for Iris Prints (test continuing) 80 years
Iris Canvas (test continuing) 80 years

Lyson has changed their inks so many times, that at one point they had to
list the colors by which generation that were on.

There more recent inksets may indeed have finally stabilized.

Art

Patrick wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...

I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."



I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html


Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and
withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head
clogs.



Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd
f

--
Patrick

Dye ink vendors have a bad enough reputation not only with their
business practices but with clogging printers. Should they really get
into pigment inks things will really get a whole lot worse.

Like I said before I would like to see a few that sell BRANDED products
that were good.

Patrick wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:1moke.1454304$Xk.884123@pd7tw3no...


No, it seems to depend on what ink set and what paper is used:



The original article stated that Iris printers are dye based and are used
for producing hight quality art prints with longevity. I don't see why you
took issue with this?



IRIS PRINTERS

Using Iris Graphics Equipoise Ink Set:
Arches Cold Press 32-36 years
Somerset Velvet Paper 20-24 years
Iris Canvas 16-18 years
Arches for Iris paper 13-15 years
Liege Inkjet Fine Art Paper 2-3 years

Using Iris Graphics Industrial Design (ID) Ink Set
Arches Cold Press Paper 2-3 years (tentative)

Using Iris Equipoise Black Ink (Only) in Monochrome Prints
Arches Cold Press Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Somerset Velvet Paper (tests continuing) 80 years
Arches for Iris Prints (test continuing) 80 years
Iris Canvas (test continuing) 80 years

Lyson has changed their inks so many times, that at one point they had
to list the colors by which generation that were on.

There more recent inksets may indeed have finally stabilized.



The pdf from Wilhem-research that includes Lyson ink is dated June 2000. In
inkjet terms - is this classed as recent?

Art, I read your posts here with interest and respect. My original post was
not to start a flame but to perhaps suggest that dye ink can have longevity
and pigment can be as vivid, and perhap these two arguments should not be
stated as gospel and instead should be qualified. Further evidense of this
might be the fact that Canon-USA have endorsed the Wilhem-research.

--
Patrick



Art

Patrick wrote:



"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:NvHje.1427208$8l.1207443@pd7tw1no...



I don't know what Mr. Lyson was partaking of when he wrote that article
but here's something from Creo's website (they are the world's largest
pre-press supplier and sell Iris products)

"How light-fast are Iris inks?
Iris prints can last unprotected six months or longer, depending on
surrounding environmental factors. Direct sunlight, room lighting and
humidity are all factors that affect image permanence."


I suppose its like anything else - it depends where you look for
information. The link below states upto 36 years before noticable fade.
These figures seem to have been supplied by Wilhelm Imaging Research.
Perhaps they have flawed testing methods?
http://www.aquarelle.ca/dietrich/giclee.html




Lyson's history has numerous fits and starts with ink sets and withdrawn
inks. Some of their inks are not compatible with OEM inks and require
the old inks to be fully flushed out of they will cause major head


clogs.


Lyson dye based ink does seem to fair well in tests;



http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/...nce_06_2000.pd


f

--
Patrick

You are sounding more and more like a simpleton with each posting.

Art

measekite wrote:

Lyson is a mfg. And they sell under their own name in various places.
That is good.