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#51
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"Matt" wrote in message ... QBall wrote: "Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Matt wrote: Conor wrote: In article , says... CrackerJack wrote: What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area? Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this? I propose this answer: 1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to say that the excess gets squeezed out. 2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive. 3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds) have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets between the chip's leads. 4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic capacitative properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too much. 1) WRONG 2) WRONG 3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself. 4) WRONG. Your reply is practically content-free. Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2? Apart from the above, the word you're looking for is 'dielectric'. Look up any elementary physics text book. Hehe ..... LOL The contemporary edukation system has a lot to answer for. Bad spelling is so freaking irritating. What was misspelled? Dielectric was 'dialectric' - like dialectic ! |
#52
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:26:53 +0100 As truth resonates honesty Lem
wrote : Paul Hopwood wrote: I realised he could have meant either, so asked for elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically conductive too, Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is potentially electrically conductive. Please name one. Arctic Silver is capacitive, rather than conductive, but the same applies in terms of application. Their instructions state: "While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)" I wouldn't doubt there are other compounds around which are electrically conductive. Hiya Paul. And now for something completely different .... Dan compares toothpaste and Vegemite/Marmite to Artic Silver and finds that both are actually better! At least they are until they dry out. http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm Dan is, of course, also the author of How To destroy Your Computer. http://www.dansdata.com/sbs3.htm I can believe it.There's lot's of Hype about. I bought this cooler for my O/C AMD XP 1800, MicroFlow2 SPA07B2 (Skt A) http://tinyurl.com/ybtn look at the price and it came with it's own tube of,"Artic" silver.So the whole kit-and-kaboodle was actually less than the cost one tube of,"Genuine","Artic Silver". Even under my heaviest gaming loads it rarely goes above 40 Deg C and trust me I give my system,"Hammer". I did polish the bottom of the HS but the copper centre really does the biz anyway. As we speak Idle temps are, 37 Deg C Running @ 143/143 As summer comes I expect it to hit 50 Deg C,but then that's nowt for an AMD and the ting is near silent as well This has to be the bargain of the year IMNSHO :P -- Free Windows/PC help, http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html email shepATpartyheld.de Free songs to download and,"BURN" :O) http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm |
#53
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QBall wrote:
"Johannes H Andersen" wrote in message ... Matt wrote: Conor wrote: In article , says... CrackerJack wrote: What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area? Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this? I propose this answer: 1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to say that the excess gets squeezed out. 2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive. 3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds) have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets between the chip's leads. 4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic capacitative properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too much. 1) WRONG 2) WRONG 3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself. 4) WRONG. Your reply is practically content-free. Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2? Apart from the above, the word you're looking for is 'dielectric'. Look up any elementary physics text book. Hehe ..... LOL The contemporary edukation system has a lot to answer for. Bad spelling is so freaking irritating. Yeah, and don't you hate it when somebody replies and quotes a bunch of material that is irrelevant to the point he is supposedly making? |
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"CrackerJack" wrote in message ... What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area? Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this? Prehaps this thread should be retitled "Much ado about nothing"? |
#55
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"baskitcaise" wrote in message ... Max wrote: Which one? I do know that artic silver 1 is slightly conductive, but the more worrying thing is the capacitance if it gets too close to contacts. Good point, at the frequencies computers run at even a small capacitance could be as harmful as a direct connection. I once wire wrapped a computer and missed the input pin by one, the inductantance caused it to work for a few seconds before failing. Similar for capicitance, high frequencies fo through a capacitor as if it is not there. http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...structions.htm -- Mark Iligitimi Non Carborundum! Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK |
#56
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:22:37 GMT, kony wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:19:12 GMT, JT wrote: I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a finger. I don't know why this is though. Can anyone enlighten me (gently)? Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have between a cpu and a heatsink JT Nonsense. NOBODY has enough oil on their fingers to significantly cause corrosion or degrade the cooling efficiency. Now maybe if someone had just finished picking their nose or painting a fence... Simple experiment. Take a clean, shiny sheet of copper or brass. Make sure it is clean. Use alcohol or the cleaner of your choice to ensure it is oil free and clean. Now take your nice clean finger and touch the center of the metal. Leave this metal somewhere that it won't be disturbed for a couple weeks. See the discoloration? That is corrosion. That is enough to reduce heat transfer, although not catastrophically. It is slow acting, but it does happen. Doesn't take much corrosion to interfere with cooling. Because it acts over time, it will take a while to cause a problem. Why take a chance? Keep your fingers off the mating surface. If you are going to go to the trouble of properly, why not keep your fingers out of the way. BTW, some peoples skin oils are much more corrosive than others. JT |
#57
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#58
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JT wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:22:37 GMT, kony wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:19:12 GMT, JT wrote: I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a finger. I don't know why this is though. Can anyone enlighten me (gently)? Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have between a cpu and a heatsink JT Nonsense. NOBODY has enough oil on their fingers to significantly cause corrosion or degrade the cooling efficiency. Now maybe if someone had just finished picking their nose or painting a fence... Simple experiment. Take a clean, shiny sheet of copper or brass. Make sure it is clean. Use alcohol or the cleaner of your choice to ensure it is oil free and clean. Now take your nice clean finger and touch the center of the metal. Leave this metal somewhere that it won't be disturbed for a couple weeks. See the discoloration? That is corrosion. That is enough to reduce heat transfer, although not catastrophically. It is slow acting, but it does happen. Doesn't take much corrosion to interfere with cooling. Because it acts over time, it will take a while to cause a problem. Why take a chance? Keep your fingers off the mating surface. If you are going to go to the trouble of properly, why not keep your fingers out of the way. I agree that touching the surface is bad (could lead to electrostatic discharge in the chip etc). But in all fairness, any minute oil you have might eventually be dissipated within the compound. When installing IC's, hold them by the edges and don't touch the pins. Make sure you are grounded too. |
#59
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:17:41 GMT, JT wrote:
Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have between a cpu and a heatsink JT Nonsense. NOBODY has enough oil on their fingers to significantly cause corrosion or degrade the cooling efficiency. Now maybe if someone had just finished picking their nose or painting a fence... Simple experiment. .... too simple to be applicable. Take a clean, shiny sheet of copper or brass. Make sure it is clean. So far so good. Use alcohol or the cleaner of your choice to ensure it is oil free and clean. So long as you do that to the CPU and heatsink too... Now take your nice clean finger and touch the center of the metal. Here's where you go wrong. That should read "now take your nice clean finger and put heatsink compound on it and touch THAT to the metal, then take (some other object) and put a similar spot of compound on another area of the metal. Leave this metal somewhere that it won't be disturbed for a couple weeks. See the discoloration? I have tried the "real thing", not the inappropriate test. I install/uninstall/clean/inspect heatsinks all the time. They weren't corroded. Your theory only applies to the exact situation you describe, not to heatsinks and thermal compound. That is corrosion. That is enough to reduce heat transfer, Sorry but your experiment had nothing to do with heat transfer, this last part is a stretch based upon an already invalid test. although not catastrophically. It is slow acting, but it does happen. that should read "although insignificantly". It serves no purpose to embellish the situation. The key here is "significance". Plenty of people, myself included, have applied compound with a finger, taken a 'sink off after a year or more and cleaned it, including a light polish, and temps afterwards were, within the accuracy provided by the on-die diode, the same. This corrosion you claim, which was not visible, did not appear to happen at all, also had no measurable effect on temp, which would tend to suggest that it didn't happen to any significant extent. Doesn't take much corrosion to interfere with cooling. Because it acts over time, it will take a while to cause a problem. Why take a chance? You may feel you're taking a chance because you're relying on an untested theory based upon only a loosely related observation. What would that bare clean copper do even if you didn't touch it with your finger? Try putting some compound on a spot (not with your finger) then let enough time elapse, remove the compound and examine, compare the covered area to (the rest of the sheet). Keep your fingers off the mating surface. If you are going to go to the trouble of properly, why not keep your fingers out of the way. BTW, some peoples skin oils are much more corrosive than others. JT Nope, nobody's skin oil is particularly corrosive, relatively speaking, then dillute it in compound, and remove air. Why try to invent problems where there aren't any? A vague untested theory about a dissimilar situation is pointless. |
#60
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:52:05 +0100, Conor wrote:
In article m, says... Simple experiment. Take a clean, shiny sheet of copper or brass. Make sure it is clean. Use alcohol or the cleaner of your choice to ensure it is oil free and clean. Now take your nice clean finger and touch the center of the metal. Leave this metal somewhere that it won't be disturbed for a couple weeks. See the discoloration? That is corrosion. Now lets make it a proper comparison by adding a heat source for prolonged periods of time. Do it. You will see the corrosion happens faster. The point was contaminants like skin oil may also cause corrosion which should be avoided. JT |
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