A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Homebuilt PC's
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

just curious... solid state hard drives



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 29th 08, 06:06 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Matthew[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default just curious... solid state hard drives

other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of
with these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory
companies that are now turning these out in addition to the major
manufacturers with slightly lower costs like with flash memory...

Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k Raptor
drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as well)


  #2  
Old July 29th 08, 06:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default just curious... solid state hard drives

Matthew wrote:
other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of
with these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory
companies that are now turning these out in addition to the major
manufacturers with slightly lower costs like with flash memory...

Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k Raptor
drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as well)


1) High cost
2) Good read performance, bad write performance (anywhere from 3 to
100 writes per second, without a caching driver of some sort).
3) MLC versus SLC. MLC offers better density than SLC, but has
poorer write cycle limitations (wearout). SLC might also be faster
to complete a write. Many "cheap" products may use MLC, with
complaints from users about them. Wear leveling algorithms are
what makes these things even begin to be viable.

http://mtron.easyco.com/news/papers/...benchmarks.pdf

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3167&p=2

Check the reviews on Newegg, to spot the garbage.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208317

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820609302

Paul
  #3  
Old July 29th 08, 06:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
BigJim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 355
Default just curious... solid state hard drives


"Matthew" wrote in message
...
other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of
with these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory
companies that are now turning these out in addition to the major
manufacturers with slightly lower costs like with flash memory...

Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k
Raptor drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as
well)


read all about it
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-ssd,1971.html

  #4  
Old July 29th 08, 06:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Matthew[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default just curious... solid state hard drives


"BigJim" wrote in message
. ..

"Matthew" wrote in message
...
other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of
with these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory
companies that are now turning these out in addition to the major
manufacturers with slightly lower costs like with flash memory...

Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k
Raptor drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as
well)


read all about it
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-ssd,1971.html


Thanks to both of you!


  #5  
Old July 29th 08, 07:22 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
JR Weiss
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default just curious... solid state hard drives

"Matthew" wrote...
other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of with
these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory companies that
are now turning these out in addition to the major manufacturers with slightly
lower costs like with flash memory...


Lots of differences among brands and generations. Extreme Tech just published a
review of new Samsung SSD with a comparison with other brands and Samsung's
earlier version: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2326348,00.asp


Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k Raptor
drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as well)


New-generation SSDs have faster access and comparable read. Way slower write.


  #6  
Old July 29th 08, 08:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,453
Default just curious... solid state hard drives

Matthew wrote:

other than cost/GB are there any other problems that I should be aware of
with these new drives? I see that there are a lot of smaller memory
companies that are now turning these out in addition to the major
manufacturers with slightly lower costs like with flash memory...

Also... how do they stack up in performance compaired to say a WD 10k Raptor
drive? (I'm about to google this, but thought I'd ask in here as well)


Oxide stress for the repeated writes that eventually overcomes the
error-correcting algorithm and reserved storage for its use which causes
eventual catastrophic failure of the drive. Also, as memory blocks
become unusable, the remapping needed to use the reserve space makes the
device slower. Flash memory has 3 main failure modes that impact
reliability (and these failure modes are not independent):

- Write Endurance: How many times a cell can be written/erased before it
becomes damaged (and has to be remapped which slows access).
- Write/Program Disturb: Writes to one page can alter bits in another
page that is not being written (aka "bit flip"). The other cell is not
damaged.
- Read Disturb: Reading one page can alter bits in another page not
being read (but does not damage the cells).

Due to oxide stress and eventual failure of a cell (which takes out a
page), some SSDs use a wear leveling algorithm. Writes are distributed
across blocks within the Flash chips and use ECC so that failed cells
can be corrected when read. If ECC fails, the block is marked as
unusable and gets remapped (slower performance due to the lookup) but
obviously there is a fixed amount of reserved blocks for this remapping.
Many Flash chip manufacturers claim that write cycles per cell exceed 1
million before non-recoverable error but some tests have shown failure
after only 200,000 write/erase cycles. Reads do not cause oxide stress
so SSDs are best for data storage that is relatively static. Once the
self-healing exceeds the capacity of the drive, it fails
catastrophically and instantly hence it should be using in a recoverable
RAID setup, like RAID-5. There are tools to monitor gradual degradation
of traditional hard drives. I'm not sure if there are tools to monitor
the level of non-recoverable ECC errors, how many remaps there are, and
how fast the remaps are accruing to indicate iminent catastrophic
failure.

You haven't stated in what computing environment you intend to use SSDs.
Most likely you are considering for personal use. Well, if you have
loads of cash burning a hole in your pocket that you must get rid of
then setup a test host and see for yourself. $15/GB for *good* SSDs
(versus $0.20/GB for 7200.11 HDDs) means you'll spend a lot more, get
smaller capacity per drive, and in a host where it will only exhibit a
speed improvement only in benchmarks or in a limited number of special
or contrived scenarios.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(OT) Solid state hard drives on the horizon.... S.Lewis Dell Computers 1 May 1st 07 11:59 AM
Solid state hard drive GT General 12 February 7th 07 11:05 AM
Solid state hard-drives Lord0 Homebuilt PC's 9 February 6th 07 08:12 PM
Solid State Drives - 3 questions... vlds8 Storage (alternative) 2 October 11th 04 12:34 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.